DI water only
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shelburn61
New member
Mixed bed units are the only ones capable producing pure water right?
The kati-ani units are separate bed correct? How do they overcome this problem?
The kati-ani units are separate bed correct? How do they overcome this problem?
Unresistible Blue
New member
You'll get better treatment with a mixed bed, in general. But given suitable exposure to the unmixed beds, you'll be fine as well.
Shoestring Reefer
New member
I only read the first and last page, so my apologies if this has been covered.
Regarding initial cost, my DI filter cost me $30. I think the statement that people start with RO because of expense is inaccurate; I got about 125-150 gallons of water per $15 cartridge, so with a 10% weekly water change plus 5 gallons of evaporation per week, it only cost me about $75 (the filter plus 3 replacement cartridges) for the first year, with my 55 gallon tank. For someone on a budget, $30 now and $45 later this year is mch more attractive than $100 now for RO/DI. Especially when it's rated for 10 gallons/hr.
IMO, people go for RO the same reason they buy $80 corals that only cost $15 in Germany. RO is trendy.
Red Devil drain cleaner. Interesting...
Regarding initial cost, my DI filter cost me $30. I think the statement that people start with RO because of expense is inaccurate; I got about 125-150 gallons of water per $15 cartridge, so with a 10% weekly water change plus 5 gallons of evaporation per week, it only cost me about $75 (the filter plus 3 replacement cartridges) for the first year, with my 55 gallon tank. For someone on a budget, $30 now and $45 later this year is mch more attractive than $100 now for RO/DI. Especially when it's rated for 10 gallons/hr.
IMO, people go for RO the same reason they buy $80 corals that only cost $15 in Germany. RO is trendy.
Red Devil drain cleaner. Interesting...
badpacket
Premium Member
My understanding is that DI is in fact quite a bit 'cleaner', from an ionic perspective. Unfortunately, DI will not remove many pesky things we may want to be. "Reverse osmosis is capable of rejecting bacteria, salts, sugars, proteins, particles, dyes, and other constituents that have a molecular weight of greater than 150-250 daltons. The separation of ions with reverse osmosis is aided by charged particles. This means that dissolved ions that carry a charge, such as salts, are more likely to be rejected by the membrane than those that are not charged, such as organics. The larger the charge and the larger the particle, the more likely it will be rejected." DI will not remove non-ionic solids or organics.
There may also be additional anion/cation's left in the water, which is something that is mandated to be measured by anyone who deals with water for the public, per the Safe Drinking Water Act, and FDA USP. A coworker says they add a little barium chloride to a sample to see if insoluable salts form, as a test. I do wonder now if any of the DI products on the market are aware or test for this, since the thread seems to be focused on what is probably unneccesary purity demands?
Oh and my buddy mentioned that colloidal silica is also not removed by DI.
While I would love to go DI only, the fact that DI would leave bacteria, excess cations/anions, dissolved organics and solids and this colloidal silica, along with the recharging, it makes me wonder whether or not it is actually cheaper to dump an extra 400% waste water down the drain? I mean, if you think of what it costs to collect, manufacture, transport the lye and acids, and then after using them to dilute them and dump them down the drain, and the impact upon the water supply system, I don't know.
I found the GE site to be a worthy read:
http://www.gewater.com/library/tp/833_What_Is.jsp
With this one in partuclar germane to the topic:
Advances and Changing Costs in Reverse Osmosis and Ion Exchange Systems
http://www.gewater.com/library/tp/733_Advances_and.jsp
I'm happy to note they do in fact mention the caustics cost into the equation.
There may also be additional anion/cation's left in the water, which is something that is mandated to be measured by anyone who deals with water for the public, per the Safe Drinking Water Act, and FDA USP. A coworker says they add a little barium chloride to a sample to see if insoluable salts form, as a test. I do wonder now if any of the DI products on the market are aware or test for this, since the thread seems to be focused on what is probably unneccesary purity demands?
Oh and my buddy mentioned that colloidal silica is also not removed by DI.
While I would love to go DI only, the fact that DI would leave bacteria, excess cations/anions, dissolved organics and solids and this colloidal silica, along with the recharging, it makes me wonder whether or not it is actually cheaper to dump an extra 400% waste water down the drain? I mean, if you think of what it costs to collect, manufacture, transport the lye and acids, and then after using them to dilute them and dump them down the drain, and the impact upon the water supply system, I don't know.
I found the GE site to be a worthy read:
http://www.gewater.com/library/tp/833_What_Is.jsp
With this one in partuclar germane to the topic:
Advances and Changing Costs in Reverse Osmosis and Ion Exchange Systems
http://www.gewater.com/library/tp/733_Advances_and.jsp
I'm happy to note they do in fact mention the caustics cost into the equation.
shelburn61
New member
I just finished the separation and recharging of my old Tap Water Purifier cartridges. I rigged up a 3 stage system for carbon, cation, and anion resin. Directions can be found here:
http://lgonzalez.net/aquatics/deionizer.html
TDS reading is 0!!!!!!
http://lgonzalez.net/aquatics/deionizer.html
TDS reading is 0!!!!!!
Anthony Calfo
New member
wow... fab Zo! Much thanks 
Oh, what a reading, well, a few years ago, after I finished with the "BOCP VI" I decide to order KATI&ANI 1 unit , from well known reasons Anthony mantion in his book as well in this tread.
The unit produce better water than all of my RO units and I'm very hapy with it.
Only problem is that was mention earlier in the tread, I could get only 40 galons before recharging, and if compare with Steven 5 unit, I have 1 liter of resins, so I shold get at least 100 galons before recharging.
Aquatechnic , as to most of the emails, did not respond till now.
My question is, were I'm doing mistake? What should be the water flow trought the media, I run it forcefuly.
Hope Steven and Anthony colud help with the isue.
The unit produce better water than all of my RO units and I'm very hapy with it.
Only problem is that was mention earlier in the tread, I could get only 40 galons before recharging, and if compare with Steven 5 unit, I have 1 liter of resins, so I shold get at least 100 galons before recharging.
Aquatechnic , as to most of the emails, did not respond till now.
My question is, were I'm doing mistake? What should be the water flow trought the media, I run it forcefuly.
Hope Steven and Anthony colud help with the isue.
badpacket
Premium Member
Boris,
Not to be argumentative, however when you say cleaner, what exactly are you testing for to make that point? Most of what I've read seems to show RO removing more of the 'stuff' than DI. Aside from getting water much faster, I'd say the link below charting what is removed by the various water purification systems might be useful to compare against how clean you believe your water to be:
http://www.edstrom.com/products.cfm?doc_id=192
Not to be argumentative, however when you say cleaner, what exactly are you testing for to make that point? Most of what I've read seems to show RO removing more of the 'stuff' than DI. Aside from getting water much faster, I'd say the link below charting what is removed by the various water purification systems might be useful to compare against how clean you believe your water to be:
http://www.edstrom.com/products.cfm?doc_id=192
Steven Pro
New member
RO membranes do remove more things than DI alone, but some of these are typically not a concern when using tapwater (microorganisms for instance) or can be dealt with the addition of a cheap prefilter canister from the hardware store (particulates and organics).
Steven Pro
New member
I usually get between 250-600 gallons from my Aquatechnic Kati-Ani #2 set. This varies seasonally with the quality of my tapwater. I set my unit to produce about 10 gallons per hour.
badpacket
Premium Member
Steven, thanks for the reply, I think it clicked now. Upon further searching, it does look indeed like carbon blocks will remove THM's, and many other VOC's. However pretty much anything under 1 micron will pass through the system, which would include bacteria, cysts, etc. Additionally, the resins themselves become breeding grounds for bacteria, so is it not possible that the incoming water which is being processed isn't being both cleaned, and then re-contaminated at the end of the loop?
I've got another spare set of 10" canisters, may try it again now with better pre-filtering and with a carbon block upstream.
I've got another spare set of 10" canisters, may try it again now with better pre-filtering and with a carbon block upstream.
Steven Pro
New member
I would think that properly chlorinated tapwater would not have any bacteria in it to start with. I guess water could back siphon into the Kati-Ani unit and get bacteria that way, but I still don't think it would matter unless you are using it for drinking. Most any freshwater bacteria would die once you add salt to make seawater or add as top-off to your marine tank.
Steven Pro
New member
With an Aquatechnik Kati-Ani you recharge the resins. It is not difficult but requires you to use some nasty chemicals in the process.
Hallo, HAPY NEW YEAR, just get back from a trip and noticed the replaies.
Meanwile I have recive some answers from AQUATECHNIC as well using German language with a help from a friend, but first, badpacket, I have 4 RO units, one is with post silica resin, and one KATI ANI 1. I have HANA combi pH,TDS and mS.
With the best RO/DI unit I get the readings of 12-13 mS, and 14-15 TDS. KATI ANI 1 , now when I set it up similiar as Steven Pro, with the advice from Marcus from Aquatechnic I get 3 mS, and 0 TDS.
Abouth the production, Marcus told me that it depends on the water GH mainly besides the other factors. So for example it is easly to cleray determine production of any unit by deviding the tap water GH by hectoliter production of the unit.
Also I have one question abouth ANI regeneration, reading the tread I found there is used staf for cleaning pipes, what is NaOH, I have here 45-50 % comercial product for this purposes in liquid form, I wonder is this enough good solution.
Meanwile I have recive some answers from AQUATECHNIC as well using German language with a help from a friend, but first, badpacket, I have 4 RO units, one is with post silica resin, and one KATI ANI 1. I have HANA combi pH,TDS and mS.
With the best RO/DI unit I get the readings of 12-13 mS, and 14-15 TDS. KATI ANI 1 , now when I set it up similiar as Steven Pro, with the advice from Marcus from Aquatechnic I get 3 mS, and 0 TDS.
Abouth the production, Marcus told me that it depends on the water GH mainly besides the other factors. So for example it is easly to cleray determine production of any unit by deviding the tap water GH by hectoliter production of the unit.
Also I have one question abouth ANI regeneration, reading the tread I found there is used staf for cleaning pipes, what is NaOH, I have here 45-50 % comercial product for this purposes in liquid form, I wonder is this enough good solution.
Steven Pro
New member
NaOH is short-hand for sodium hydroxide. Not all pipe cleaning products use the same chemicals. Anthony and I both use a particular product which is just sodium hydroxide, but you would have to verify that is what is in your particular pipe product as well as the concentration.
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