InsaneClownFish
New member
chrismunn, ummm I used shims underneath the STAND...not underneath the tank...where are you getting this?
Diary of my LiL 40 Gallon Breeder(Intense)
- Thread starter InsaneClownFish
- Start date
Shoestring Reefer
New member
Wowza, that's the first I heard of shimming a tank. When I shimmed my 55 stand, I put shims along the lenght, progressivly smaller. Of course, those were pieces of pizza box cardboard, so they were easy to do.
Bristle worm free love -- that's Insane, Clownfish!
Bristle worm free love -- that's Insane, Clownfish!
paulpp187
Registered Member
chrismunn is correct if you do shim the bottom of the stand you are taking a chance with breaking it the tank will not be fully supported it may not happen right away but over time it will break.the best thing for you to do is get some pieces of wood and scribe them then cut the part you need and screw it on. by doing that you are preventing the stand from warping and doing damage to the tank.
InsaneClownFish
New member
What about if I level out the unprotected part with thick cardboard? I don't understand this entirely. I did a TON of reading before I setup my tank.
It was my understanding that as long as the tank was leveled from the BOTTOM, and not underneath the rim of the tank, that this was acceptible- and the proper way to level a tank.
It was my understanding that as long as the tank was leveled from the BOTTOM, and not underneath the rim of the tank, that this was acceptible- and the proper way to level a tank.
paulpp187
Registered Member
cardboard will eventually break down you ever get cardboard wet it shrinks alittle what do you think is gonna happen when it shrinks th ewood will adventully bow causing where the tank sits to bow. how bad is your floor? how far off is it ? the best way is to scribe it. not to sure if i spelling is correct but a carpenter or someone with carpentry skills would know. my floor was off and i had to scribe it also never had a problem. if you had a iron stand there would be no worries the steel would not warp but your dealing with wood it will bow edventually if not fully supported
InsaneClownFish
New member
paul, so then Mike shouldn't have used the pizza carboard on his tank?
I appreciate everyone's concerns, however I've just read several threads here on RC in the last 30 minutes, and this seems like a LONG running debate.
Many people argue for shimming a tank so it's level.
Still others argue that it's a bad idea to shim a tank, with just shims, because the stand can twist, warp, etc.
Honestly, the consensus seems to be that the FAR more important part of the equation is that you have even contact between the BOTTOM of the tank and the TOP of the stand. If I'm not mistaken, when I talked with AGA and Oceanic this was their take as well. I'm going to call BOTH of them on Monday and see what their take is.
The consensus also seems to be that it is far worse not to try an level the tank than it is to use shims.
IE- An unlevel tank will cause far more problems than shims ever will.
I'm still reading though...
I appreciate everyone's concerns, however I've just read several threads here on RC in the last 30 minutes, and this seems like a LONG running debate.
Many people argue for shimming a tank so it's level.
Still others argue that it's a bad idea to shim a tank, with just shims, because the stand can twist, warp, etc.
Honestly, the consensus seems to be that the FAR more important part of the equation is that you have even contact between the BOTTOM of the tank and the TOP of the stand. If I'm not mistaken, when I talked with AGA and Oceanic this was their take as well. I'm going to call BOTH of them on Monday and see what their take is.
The consensus also seems to be that it is far worse not to try an level the tank than it is to use shims.
IE- An unlevel tank will cause far more problems than shims ever will.
I'm still reading though...
chrismunn
New member
oh, another thing. the stand should be square! if the stand is square, and you put the stand on the floor, and the stand is out of level, then your floor is out.... now normally when im building, i dont give a crap about supporting the entire lenght of something, but in the case of a stand supporting the weight of a 40g fish tank, i would take the extra effort to maintain support along the entire length of the stand. in example.
your stand is 48" long, and perfectly square. you put it on the floor in the place you intend to keep it. you put a level up on it,, and it shows a 1\4" drop from left to right. you can throw a 1\4" shim under the right side of the stand to level it, but it will still be unsupported in the middle. to accomplish full support for the base of the stand you want to take a 48" 2x4, mark one end at 1\4", and mark the other end a 0. essentially will be cutting a 4 foot shim that only gets a quarter of an inch tall at the far end....your going to need 2 of these of course, and a piece of wood cut at 1 1\2" x 1\4" x the width of the stand between the 48" shims.
im sure everyone here knows not to shim the tank itself, that would just be rediculous! aside from that, the tank looks good ICF, i bet your excited!~
your stand is 48" long, and perfectly square. you put it on the floor in the place you intend to keep it. you put a level up on it,, and it shows a 1\4" drop from left to right. you can throw a 1\4" shim under the right side of the stand to level it, but it will still be unsupported in the middle. to accomplish full support for the base of the stand you want to take a 48" 2x4, mark one end at 1\4", and mark the other end a 0. essentially will be cutting a 4 foot shim that only gets a quarter of an inch tall at the far end....your going to need 2 of these of course, and a piece of wood cut at 1 1\2" x 1\4" x the width of the stand between the 48" shims.
im sure everyone here knows not to shim the tank itself, that would just be rediculous! aside from that, the tank looks good ICF, i bet your excited!~
InsaneClownFish
New member
Yes, I am Chris! Thanks, I think....
:uzi: chrismunn
Well, moving on from my tank explonding...I have a bunch of updates to do tonight...
First, here's a warning for those looking for Red Foot Turbos. Sometimes the LFS(this was actually a reknowned REEF store in my area) sell you these instead: Opeatostoma pseudodon :eek2:
Here's some pics and a brief description at wetwebmedia:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/snailidfaq3.htm
Both Anthony Calfo and Dr. Ron agree this conch probably preys on snails. I've been trying to find more info, but it also appears they may prey on clams.
This bad boy is 99% covered in coralline. Something in the back of my mind said "conch" when I bought it. I guess I should trust my instincts more than what the "owner" of a reef store tells me(I'm guessing he has no idea what this one is, because he has one in his side reef). *sigh*
I became suspicious once I got a good look at it under my T5s, so I decided to search for a positive ID. Lined shell..more discernable "conch" shape...body and mouth shape...."calcerous tooth"
I'll be gleefully returning this one tomorrow...after diggin it out of my tank.
I should have known a snail this cool lookin wasn't reef safe. :lol:
Follow along troopers...my reef adventure continues....
:strooper:
PS- for those of you lookin for Red Foot Turbos to begin with...JP just informed me they're generally not a good choice because they are from a more temperate climate. Now I had known Margarita Snails are more of a cold water species, but this bit of info on Red Foot Turbos is welcomed knowledge. Thanks JP!
It's funny how another LFS told me all the seasoned reefers search out the Red Foot Turbos....*sigh*
:uzi: chrismunn
Well, moving on from my tank explonding...I have a bunch of updates to do tonight...
First, here's a warning for those looking for Red Foot Turbos. Sometimes the LFS(this was actually a reknowned REEF store in my area) sell you these instead: Opeatostoma pseudodon :eek2:
Here's some pics and a brief description at wetwebmedia:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/snailidfaq3.htm
Both Anthony Calfo and Dr. Ron agree this conch probably preys on snails. I've been trying to find more info, but it also appears they may prey on clams.
This bad boy is 99% covered in coralline. Something in the back of my mind said "conch" when I bought it. I guess I should trust my instincts more than what the "owner" of a reef store tells me(I'm guessing he has no idea what this one is, because he has one in his side reef). *sigh*
I became suspicious once I got a good look at it under my T5s, so I decided to search for a positive ID. Lined shell..more discernable "conch" shape...body and mouth shape...."calcerous tooth"
I'll be gleefully returning this one tomorrow...after diggin it out of my tank.
I should have known a snail this cool lookin wasn't reef safe. :lol:
Follow along troopers...my reef adventure continues....
:strooper:
PS- for those of you lookin for Red Foot Turbos to begin with...JP just informed me they're generally not a good choice because they are from a more temperate climate. Now I had known Margarita Snails are more of a cold water species, but this bit of info on Red Foot Turbos is welcomed knowledge. Thanks JP!
It's funny how another LFS told me all the seasoned reefers search out the Red Foot Turbos....*sigh*
InsaneClownFish
New member
Now..onto more updates.
Last night at about 3am I tested for PH and Alkalinity.
PH- 8.3
Alkalinity- Dkh- 6.4, 2.06meg/l :eek2:
I added about 1/2 teaspoon of the Kent Super Buffer DkH to a small amount of distilled top off water, mixed, and spread across the powerhead.
At 3pm this afternoon I took readings again.
PH- 8.4
Alkalinity- exactly the same
I used Salifert tests both times.
I added about 1.5 teaspoons of buffer, and I'll test again later today.
I was surprised that my PH has been so stable at 8.3, but my Alk is so low.
I'm going to be more diligent, when I do water changes, about adding buffer. Since establishing the tank, I've been very, very conservative about adding buffer during my 20-25% water changes because my Alk had been reading 11-12+ I'd like to keep it around 11, so like I said, I was being very conservative.
Does anyone have any suggestions or input here?
Last night at about 3am I tested for PH and Alkalinity.
PH- 8.3
Alkalinity- Dkh- 6.4, 2.06meg/l :eek2:
I added about 1/2 teaspoon of the Kent Super Buffer DkH to a small amount of distilled top off water, mixed, and spread across the powerhead.
At 3pm this afternoon I took readings again.
PH- 8.4
Alkalinity- exactly the same
I used Salifert tests both times.
I added about 1.5 teaspoons of buffer, and I'll test again later today.
I was surprised that my PH has been so stable at 8.3, but my Alk is so low.
I'm going to be more diligent, when I do water changes, about adding buffer. Since establishing the tank, I've been very, very conservative about adding buffer during my 20-25% water changes because my Alk had been reading 11-12+ I'd like to keep it around 11, so like I said, I was being very conservative.
Does anyone have any suggestions or input here?
pvtschultz
New member
Tank supports, leveling, and other popular myths.
Tank supports, leveling, and other popular myths.
***Disclaimer: The opinions and findings in this post are those of the author of the post and are just that, opinions and findings. Use them as you will, and if you will, use them. I am confident in my knowlege and others will support me, but others will have doubts. If you are stort tempered or have a habit of sudden outbursts, read the next post or thread. The author of this post makes no guarentees as to the factualness or safeness of the information contained herein.
So ha, let's get to reading! :uzi::strooper:
This thread was brought to my attention as many are and it seems that there are a lot of people who have no faith in structural integrities and the whole leaking tanks things.
I may be going out on an incredible limb here, but I am willing to bet that the many other engineers that take part in Reef Central will agree with me as well.
Take exhibit A: My 55 gallon AGA tank with factory stand.
You can't see it from the pic, but many others are just like it. There is about 16" of vertical support on each side of the tank and across the ends. For about 20" in the middle, there is a lone 1"x4" sawdust board that touches the tank for 5" on each side and has been that way for 3 years. Same way with metal stands, the only supporting points are the four corners where the verticle members are under the stand. Anywhere else, as soon as there is some distributed weight, there is flex and no weight support. Therefore, only the corners support any tank weight. The side panes of glass on a glass tank only have vertical loading due to the bottom of the tank that is glued to the sides and the rim. The sides only retain the pressure forces of the water in the tank. Really, the ony way that the structural integrity of a tank can be compromised is if one corner is not supported whatsoever. The moral of the story is that corner to corner the stand needs to have relative "level", meaning the same degree of levelness.
I think that it is safe to say that the same goes for the stand. As long as the corners of the stand are all firmly planted on terra-firma and there are no obvious high or low spots corner to corner, you could have 4 2X4's to support a 55 gallon tank (assuming that the maximum buckling load is not exceeded). Now, we must be realistic here. When I say relative, there needs to be some sort of a degree of precision. If the tank runs 0.25 inches over 4 feet, I say who gives a crap, keep the waterline above the rim. If it bothers you that much, shim the low corners so that the tank is level, and the gently wedge shims under the stand from the corner to the others so that there is next to equal weight distribution alond the rim. Continuity is not neccessary, but it will help a lot of people sleep at night.
AGA and Oceanic know what is behind their tanks. They engineered them, they know what they can take. For the most parts, our tanks are just that, tanks...and so are the stands that they sit on. (If you are confused, think wars, tracks, and big guns).
To each his own, and to own is to each. If you ask me and my education and my experience, your tank is not going to rupture, it is not going to spring a leak, and it is not going to crack. If the water line bothers you, shim it, if not **** it. Make sure that about 4 inches on each corner of the stand is in full contact with the floor and that four inches of each corner of the tank is in contact with the stand. From there, enjoy your fish, you have nothing to worry about. I am almost willing to garantee it...but can't, I don't study aquariums. I am setting up a new 90 gal on a homebuild stand. I never checked it for any level while building it, I am that confident. Only the corners are supported so I guess I'll see for myself.
Oh yeah, nice tank so far, nice rock. Keep up the good work and keep us informed as to your progress. To be fair to the initiater of this thread, I would like to consider this topic dead. If you feel the need to continue on, please start a new thread, send me and PM, and we'll continue on. If not, lets leave this thread alone.
Tank supports, leveling, and other popular myths.
***Disclaimer: The opinions and findings in this post are those of the author of the post and are just that, opinions and findings. Use them as you will, and if you will, use them. I am confident in my knowlege and others will support me, but others will have doubts. If you are stort tempered or have a habit of sudden outbursts, read the next post or thread. The author of this post makes no guarentees as to the factualness or safeness of the information contained herein.
So ha, let's get to reading! :uzi::strooper:
This thread was brought to my attention as many are and it seems that there are a lot of people who have no faith in structural integrities and the whole leaking tanks things.
I may be going out on an incredible limb here, but I am willing to bet that the many other engineers that take part in Reef Central will agree with me as well.
Take exhibit A: My 55 gallon AGA tank with factory stand.
You can't see it from the pic, but many others are just like it. There is about 16" of vertical support on each side of the tank and across the ends. For about 20" in the middle, there is a lone 1"x4" sawdust board that touches the tank for 5" on each side and has been that way for 3 years. Same way with metal stands, the only supporting points are the four corners where the verticle members are under the stand. Anywhere else, as soon as there is some distributed weight, there is flex and no weight support. Therefore, only the corners support any tank weight. The side panes of glass on a glass tank only have vertical loading due to the bottom of the tank that is glued to the sides and the rim. The sides only retain the pressure forces of the water in the tank. Really, the ony way that the structural integrity of a tank can be compromised is if one corner is not supported whatsoever. The moral of the story is that corner to corner the stand needs to have relative "level", meaning the same degree of levelness.
I think that it is safe to say that the same goes for the stand. As long as the corners of the stand are all firmly planted on terra-firma and there are no obvious high or low spots corner to corner, you could have 4 2X4's to support a 55 gallon tank (assuming that the maximum buckling load is not exceeded). Now, we must be realistic here. When I say relative, there needs to be some sort of a degree of precision. If the tank runs 0.25 inches over 4 feet, I say who gives a crap, keep the waterline above the rim. If it bothers you that much, shim the low corners so that the tank is level, and the gently wedge shims under the stand from the corner to the others so that there is next to equal weight distribution alond the rim. Continuity is not neccessary, but it will help a lot of people sleep at night.
AGA and Oceanic know what is behind their tanks. They engineered them, they know what they can take. For the most parts, our tanks are just that, tanks...and so are the stands that they sit on. (If you are confused, think wars, tracks, and big guns).
To each his own, and to own is to each. If you ask me and my education and my experience, your tank is not going to rupture, it is not going to spring a leak, and it is not going to crack. If the water line bothers you, shim it, if not **** it. Make sure that about 4 inches on each corner of the stand is in full contact with the floor and that four inches of each corner of the tank is in contact with the stand. From there, enjoy your fish, you have nothing to worry about. I am almost willing to garantee it...but can't, I don't study aquariums. I am setting up a new 90 gal on a homebuild stand. I never checked it for any level while building it, I am that confident. Only the corners are supported so I guess I'll see for myself.
Oh yeah, nice tank so far, nice rock. Keep up the good work and keep us informed as to your progress. To be fair to the initiater of this thread, I would like to consider this topic dead. If you feel the need to continue on, please start a new thread, send me and PM, and we'll continue on. If not, lets leave this thread alone.
InsaneClownFish
New member
Amen! Thanks pvtschultz for the vote of confidence!
Now back to your regularly scheduled program- My Tank.
Now back to your regularly scheduled program- My Tank.
pvtschultz
New member
I'm not blasting, and I'm not targeting you. It happens all the time on RC where people flip out at a thought of something like shimming your tank or something like that. It is understandable, a lot of people don't get into statics and dynamics, and physics and etc like I have and other engineers. I mean, it is our job to think outside the box and do thing differently, otherwise we'd make no progress in the world. But yeah, I appologize if it sounded like I was coming out at you, and I'm not. I just had to get it off of my mind. Mr. Insaneclownfish, sorry for polluting your thread, lets keep the pics coming. I'll have plenty more in the next couple weeks as I move from my 55 10 miles to a new 90 using almost everything that is in use now. That is going to be a trick. Stay tuned.
InsaneClownFish
New member
chrismunn, I'm definately not blasting you.. In fact I'm thanking you for the added recant and info. 
I'm a pretty open minded guy.
And I'm shooting you with that uzi because I'm damned paranoid about my tank already.
It's all in good fun.
In fact I'm thanking you for the added recant and info. I'm a pretty open minded guy.
And I'm shooting you with that uzi because I'm damned paranoid about my tank already.
It's all in good fun.
melev
Well-known member
Zool2, er... InsaneClownFish,
I'm sure your tank will be fine on the stand if the base of the stand has been shimmed. Personally, I would try to put as many shims as necessary to simply disperse the weight over as much surface area as possible, rather than have the focused weight on one specific point (surface of the one shim). If you have the ability to insert a few more under the stand, it will only improve matters. Using a chisel and a hammer, break off what is still visible, then using the piece you cut off, put it next to the shim and tap it gently a couple of times to nudge it out of sight.
Now, more importantly, how did you come across my "swimming worms" thread? That hasn't been up on the radar in a long time.
I do love the red footed snail, and have had them last about 6 months. That might not be all that long, but I sure enjoy watching one when I can. I might pick up another one soon, if my LFS has them again. http://melevsreef.com/id/redfootedsnail.html
I'm sure your tank will be fine on the stand if the base of the stand has been shimmed. Personally, I would try to put as many shims as necessary to simply disperse the weight over as much surface area as possible, rather than have the focused weight on one specific point (surface of the one shim). If you have the ability to insert a few more under the stand, it will only improve matters. Using a chisel and a hammer, break off what is still visible, then using the piece you cut off, put it next to the shim and tap it gently a couple of times to nudge it out of sight.
Now, more importantly, how did you come across my "swimming worms" thread? That hasn't been up on the radar in a long time.
I do love the red footed snail, and have had them last about 6 months. That might not be all that long, but I sure enjoy watching one when I can. I might pick up another one soon, if my LFS has them again. http://melevsreef.com/id/redfootedsnail.html
InsaneClownFish
New member
Did someone say pics??
Here's some nice shots of the deep purple coralline that is thriving, and spreading under those T5s:
Here's some nice shots of the deep purple coralline that is thriving, and spreading under those T5s:
InsaneClownFish
New member
Marc, I tried a bunch of search combos, and the best result I achieved on RC was with "swimming" and "worms." I'm never satisfied until I find exactly what I think I have...so I just kept on reading.
I said...yes yes...VIDEO!
You have no idea how much that helped.
That red foot is gorgeous. I really envy your photography skills. :artist:
And you're right, I think Norissa are on Dr. Ron's "no no" list for a reef.
:rollface:
I said...yes yes...VIDEO!
You have no idea how much that helped.
That red foot is gorgeous. I really envy your photography skills. :artist:
And you're right, I think Norissa are on Dr. Ron's "no no" list for a reef.
:rollface:
InsaneClownFish
New member
Here's a pretty lame pic I took when trying to capture those bristles spawning....all of the white specs, flecs, and glow bugs are baby wormies:
InsaneClownFish
New member
SNAIL WATCH
Here's a little snail update. I've slowly added snails since my first two lil Astreas.
My current snails are:
2 Astrea
3 Trochus
2 Tiger Trochus(soon to be 3)
1 Opeatostoma pseudodon(getting returned today)
7 Nassarius Vibex
When I purchased my second set of Trochus, one turned out to be a gorgeous Tiger Trochus:
This snail is remarkable to watch. It's body is black with almost goldish markings. It's "feelers" are long and elegant.
My LFS had what they called "Red Banded Snails"- "that can right themselves." When I inquired to the owner about them, and I mentioned Trochus, he indeed said they were a type of Trochus. I purchased two. Unfortunately, one was DOA, and I was aggravated I had already put the dead snail into my reef without having examined it first. When I fished it out I realized it had been dead at the LFS as it had decayed significantly. The bag stunk. I said to myself at first...god LFS water wreaks.
I have to admit I was a bit peeved that the LFS sold me a dead snail. Yes I know, mistakes happen. I've learned my lesson- really examine specimens in the bag BEFORE walking out of the store.
I guess I'm just one of those snails are people too kinda people.
On the upside the medium sized specimen I now have has an interesting metallic shell, and upon further examination I've positively IDed this as my second Tiger Trochus.
My girlfriend was in the area so I sent her in to pick up the replacement and she came home with my 7th Nassarius. :fun4:
All my algae snails are thriving, and they're having a field day since my diatom bloom.
The Nassarius just make us smile. :lolspin:
Here's a little snail update. I've slowly added snails since my first two lil Astreas.
My current snails are:
2 Astrea
3 Trochus
2 Tiger Trochus(soon to be 3)
1 Opeatostoma pseudodon(getting returned today)
7 Nassarius Vibex
When I purchased my second set of Trochus, one turned out to be a gorgeous Tiger Trochus:
This snail is remarkable to watch. It's body is black with almost goldish markings. It's "feelers" are long and elegant.
My LFS had what they called "Red Banded Snails"- "that can right themselves." When I inquired to the owner about them, and I mentioned Trochus, he indeed said they were a type of Trochus. I purchased two. Unfortunately, one was DOA, and I was aggravated I had already put the dead snail into my reef without having examined it first. When I fished it out I realized it had been dead at the LFS as it had decayed significantly. The bag stunk. I said to myself at first...god LFS water wreaks.
I have to admit I was a bit peeved that the LFS sold me a dead snail. Yes I know, mistakes happen. I've learned my lesson- really examine specimens in the bag BEFORE walking out of the store.
I guess I'm just one of those snails are people too kinda people.
On the upside the medium sized specimen I now have has an interesting metallic shell, and upon further examination I've positively IDed this as my second Tiger Trochus.
My girlfriend was in the area so I sent her in to pick up the replacement and she came home with my 7th Nassarius. :fun4:
All my algae snails are thriving, and they're having a field day since my diatom bloom.
The Nassarius just make us smile. :lolspin:
