dino experiment

[brandon429]

You know whats wierd about the 35%, stuff will burn your eyes out with one errant drop, id choose bleach in the eye over that stuff, and its available over the counter to anyone at health food stores. its twenty bucks a quart and Ive already used a whole quart through my gallon pico reef, slowly over the course of the last year and a half.

it took a long time for 3% to have no effect for me, I totally recommend not using 35% until you have to. Chemists in here are going to blow a gasket with even mentioning that stuff at that level, but its available to the public, people want to know, so thats the deal with it.

The number one thing I use 35% for is wiping down the inside of my tank when its drained for a water change. the burning takes off coralline seeding, micro algae seeding, pretty much for the rest of the month considering the weekly maintenance schedule I have for my tank.

Safety handling of 35% can't be overstated, one errant splash while pouring into your dosing container etc will turn your cornea white like a blanched egg its truly truly dangerous stuff. Its amazing my 15 yr old could walk in a buy it. Im glad I didnt know of its existence as a kid that would have been a tragedy for sure.

Recall the new math that will be required to dose it...this 1:10 dosing of 3% that works on so many occasions will have to be redone, or your 35% diluted down massively to accomodate it either way.

I also cheated a little and used some of the 35% in the laundry to try it, worked great, and to blast algae rings out of the dog bowl lol the stuff is nuclear liquid.

if you get it on your hands and they tingle and turn white for 4 days it won't hurt you, but wear eye protection fo sho

IMO we can't correlate the algae to your sg or mag levels. I run my tank close to .022 all the time, usually .023 and it doesnt grow anything but the normal biota of algae common in reef tanks.

 

[brandon429]

here is a long boring vid showing how well my one gallon mixed sps/lps invert reef is adapted to this 35%, wiping the inside of the glass etc. also, the red mushroom treated as a frothing test in this vid didn't die, it multiplied fifty times over to plague proportions.

There is a biological mechanism in mushroom corallimorphs where any percentage of peroxide is not only nonlethal, they have all metabolic heritabilities to deal with any percentage we can get, but peroxide application actually induces pedal laceration asexual reproduction. amazing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fk8R3clElQ

if you make calls to all the normal health food markets/stores in your town, one w have the 35%

 

[brandon429]

I would also add that before ever dosing 35% into your water column we should be using the 3% at stronger levels than 1:10 IF you are even choosing the peroxide route to battle anything. We have several threads compiled in our pest algae problem challenge thread here in the nanos forum where people are dosing up to 4 mls per ten gallons into mixed sps tanks with zero problems and are curing their tanks. there is plenty of room for upgrade dosing with 3% before ever needing the nuke version

dinos have wrecked so many tanks I wouldnt hate on anyone for trying any approach, whatever saves your tank im for. Lights out and strong physical removal will always be my first recommend.

 

[Beenalongtime79]

35%!!! What!?!?!?

 

[t4zalews]

dinos have wrecked so many tanks I wouldnt hate on anyone for trying any approach, whatever saves your tank im for. Lights out and strong physical removal will always be my first recommend.

I couldn't stress this enough. Granted I used algae x but I was dosing ~12-15 mL which compared to ~72-75 gallons of total water is so miniscule. The worst thing you could do is just starting to dump large amounts of anything into the tank. The truely best attack is at the light source. Physical removal is the second best method. Whatever done after these is personal choice.

 

[disc1]

:biting a hole through my tongue:

 

[disc1]

if you get it on your hands and they tingle and turn white for 4 days it won't hurt you
.

Nope. Can't bite tongue. This right here is so wrong and misleading that there should be laws against stating it. 35% peroxide will burn you very very badly if it gets on your skin. The white skin may clear up, but you've done a ton of oxidative damage. DO NOT get that stuff on your skin thinking that it will just go away.

Bad bad bad bad bad. Brandon I get that you own stock in a peroxide manufacturer or whatever and just have to make sure everyone gives the stuff a try, but let's try to know what we are talking about on safety. 35% hydrogen peroxide is not something to play around with. Just because it is available doesn't mean it is even remotely close to safe.

 

[disc1]

It will also react violently with a number of materials. If you don't know what those are, then you definitely shouldn't be monkeying around with it.

 

[disc1]

One particular example of a material that doesn't go well with peroxide of particular interest to us aquarists is ferric oxide which can act as a catalyst for the decomposition of peroxide. In its dilute forms it just goes away without a sound. At higher concentrations the decomposition CAN be explosive.

 

[MHG]

Here was my fix...

72 hours of no lights and a daily cleaning and sock changing.

Then treat with chemiclean as directed... Continue sock changing

Then put the carbon back in and manually clean the rocks daily with a brush and turkey baster..... changing the socks....

Finally dose Pohles (Zeovite) Coral Snow with zeobak for two weeks. Continue manual cleaning and changing of socks...




It has been 4 months with no Dino.... If a see a bubble or two i hit it with the turkey baster and a dose of coral snow/ zeobak.

 

[brandon429]

Disc

I predicted a stand up response from chemists and you wrote pretty nicely considering



it gets on my skin all the time, unfortunately, and a video was posted of a mixed reef keeping the exact same stuff you guys have, using 35%

I thought I said twenty times the stuff was strong, and how easy it was to get etc. I didnt mention explosions because we weren't discussing mixing it with dry materials, it was for in tank use as posted. there are lots of household things that can explode...you will not explode your gfo if you use it in tank, we actively do this in our threads in tanks w gfo. mixed dry? thats interesting I didn't know that.

if Im typing something about peroxide it will only be said if direct personal use on a repeated basis is the root of the explanation. the conjecture stuff I try to say imo...itd be nice to get that in return.

surely you could tell I was not endorsing it all crazy, but I won't disavow it either, I use it in tiny pico reefs just fine. if someone wants to party, we have to talk about it thats my stance. we teach the use of muriatic acid etc, to me thats the same boat. no not really 35% is meaner !

and Im not the only one to use it either. Justin Credabel made the peroxide thing popular first, he was on 35%, and Dr Hovanec has also recommended it as an -in tank- dosage for treating white slime I could find the link online in a few mins. children can buy it OTC, we can't make it taboo, its out there. If its ok for household use its ok to dump in our tanks w vodka, driveway icer etc heh not really you know Im joking. when and if anyone buys the stong stuff, it tells you on the bottle how to bathe in it, how to dilute it for use etc.

But yes it gets on my skin all the time, turns white, tingles with mild nerve damage heh and then things are fine soon. One of our posters who uses it in pool cleaning told me that once and I didn't believe him either, thought it would melt to the bone. actual use tends to show difference over theory...

its just a hot topic debate I know. I try to communicate the risk very accurately. Ive been recommending lights out proof above lol

 

[disc1]

All I'm saying is don't downplay the safety concerns. Dump whatever you want in your tank. But don't tell people to leave that on their skin. I bring up the reactivity concerns because while you and I might know better I don't know that the average person won't read this and think the stuff is safe as water as long as you don't get it in your eye.

I won't argue its effectiveness. Again I don't care what you put in your tank or why. I won't argue its safety with other animals in the tank although I do cringe when you make statements like peroxide does no damage to anything other than algae at any concentration. But whatever.

But I do take chemical safety serious. And I'm not going to sit by while you tell people it is safe to leave 35% peroxide on bare skin. That's just not true. If it is washed away quickly it USUALLY does little damage, but that's not to say it is safe. It can and will cause severe burns.

I do think you come off like a salesman when you come in with these long drawn out responses about it being perfectly safe and effective and anyone who says boo about it is just a hater. But again, I don't really care. Do what you want to do. But don't go telling folks that something is safe when it most assuredly requires precaution.

 

[brandon429]

your response isnt exactly concise or without hyperbole

never said to leave it on skin

you have brought up discussions from previous peroxide disagreements into this thread we hadn't typed, I think sometimes you guys like to make hype on the opposite side of the coin. we'll balance each other out soon enough. still, this is the best forum to discuss peroxide in due to the amount of chemists, good way to check for snake oil salesman I guess.

the things you guys said peroxide will kill, certainly, if added to the tank, just isn't panning out. we can discuss again if needed.

as I re read my offers to be careful with it, I can't see how you interpreted my wording as be not careful with it.

 

[disc1]

I never said it WILL kill anything. I've said it is a stronger oxidizer than chlorine bleach, that much is verifiable. I've said that it can kill bacteria, that much is verifiable. That's about as far as I've taken it. Have you seen the recent thread (week or so ago in the lounge of all places) where peroxide wiped out a tank on overdose? Killed everything. So I guess it can kill at some concentration.

 

[brandon429]

no I haven't seen that pls link Id like to link it to our threads thanks for mentioning. considering people kill their tanks with kalk overdoses, it doesnt mean much. I never said the stuff was inert, just trying to find a middle ground on this coin! link though if you would thanks for pointing me to that.

 

[disc1]

no I haven't seen that pls link Id like to link it to our threads thanks for mentioning. considering people kill their tanks with kalk overdoses, it doesnt mean much. I never said the stuff was inert, just trying to find a middle ground on this coin! link though if you would thanks for pointing me to that.

Yeah but no ody has ever said that kalk at any concentration can do no harm. We warn people all the time that kalk can spike pH.

I'll link you out as soon as I get to my computer instead of my phone.

 

[Herbie]

Lets keep this topic on track..........

The only reason brandon gave some details on the 35% is because someone asked where to get it. From reading the posts, brandon is very explicit about how dangerous the 35% is. Enough said.
Yes its dangerous, we should not be using it. Exactly as brandon has stated.
If I even decide to give the peroxide a try, I will be using the 3%.

I for one, would rather that this thread did not get "closed" because of some bickering. There is a lot of great info wrapped up in this thread.

Now........
Keep Calm and Carry on

Herbie

 

[disc1]

Here's the thread. This was a half gallon into a 100gallon tank. Way way way way over the recommended dosage. But it melted everything.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2258094

 

[disc1]

Lets keep this topic on track..........

The only reason brandon gave some details on the 35% is because someone asked where to get it. From reading the posts, brandon is very explicit about how dangerous the 35% is. Enough said.
Yes its dangerous, we should not be using it. Exactly as brandon has stated.
If I even decide to give the peroxide a try, I will be using the 3%.

I for one, would rather that this thread did not get "closed" because of some bickering. There is a lot of great info wrapped up in this thread.

Now........
Keep Calm and Carry on

Herbie

No problem Herbie. We'll take it elsewhere.

 

[brandon429]

excellent I really wanted to see that and will post in a few pertinent threads we want all the good and bad in one place. sent you a pm about some mathmatics involved disc