Dinoflagellates.

[LelandF.]

It's been 2 months, Dino free. I'm obviously not sure which strain I had, I never looked at it under a microscope. Even if I did, I don't have any way of identifying a specific species, as I don't have any reference that points out how to identify which species it is. I do know I had it for a very long time, and tried everything to be rid of it.

As I said, I fully expect it to come back at some point. I'll be quick to use peroxide again to prevent it from getting to plague proportions again.

It's definately had an impact on the health of my corals, and clean up crew. I never lost any coral, but almost all of my snails are gone. Very little coralline algae remains on the rocks. I'm sure it will grow back quickly.

Leland

 

[swk]

I hit them hard quickly. Peroxide did the trick. The only noticeable side effect was some browning of my caulerpa.
This was 3 weeks ago and so far so good. I am keeping a watchful eye out for any signs of their return

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Here is a chemistry question.


These toxins are quite complex so I don't know if they could be measured with a test kit or at one of those specialized labs providing service to reefers.

If there was a single toxin that was of interest at a known concentration of concern, one could likely generate a method involving HPLC or a similar expensive machine assay. Definitely not a kit, unless it was a very expensive one.

If there are multiple toxins then this becomes impractical (assuming one thinks the above is practical).

 

[Savant]

Devastating news:eek2:.... I am 98% sure I have the Prorocentrum strain of dino's. I used a 400x microscope and the cells look exactly like the Prorocentrum shown on Pants id page. The reason Im 98% and not 100% is because 400x was max zoom and i couldn't rule out the sample being the Amphidinium strain but im 98% sure its Prorocentrum.

Sooo, does any body have a successful eradication story for this type of dino?

I am planning on an aggressive multi-prong attack consisting of ph 8.4, peroxide dosing 2x10 ml and complete entombment of dt with cardboard as well as remote sump blackout for 3 days. The sump might be difficult (100g stock tank) but what choice is there...lol

It is currently contained on the sand bed but vacuum doesn't really help its back in a day.

phos.-0 (gfo) hanna checker (not ul)
nitrate 5-7
ph 8.1
mg 1560 (tested 3 times with 2 different kits) no idea how this went high using IO Reef
calc 410
alk 8.8-9

been dosing baking soda in ato to maintain alk, but i will have to dose kalk(for ph) using a doser because evaporation rate has been inconsistant

 

[Aquarist007]

Zero PO4 would concern me but it could just be a testing ghost.Raising alk with zero PO4 could be an issue. Are you using any other PO4 reducers like gfo? If not I'd cut back on the .

Tom can you explain more? One of my tanks is going through a ton of alk and it has zero phosphates.. This maybe the answer I am looking for

 

[yeldarbj]

I finally can share some positive results with my dino battle. I had an ostreopsis variety. I posted a microscopic video on one of these dino threads, and Pants is the one who suggested I had ostreopsis due to the tether-ball like motion showed.

My theory is that the dinos bloomed when there was an absence of other competing algaes. I had zero nitrates and zero phosphates at the time my dinos starting presenting last January. Like others, I've tried all the various methods without success. I started a small, homemade algae turf scrubber just to see if I could grow green algae. It was moderately successful. I cleaned the screen about every 4-6 weeks but saw no impact on the dinos. I tried increased feeding and dosing nitrate, silicate, and iron just to try to grow algae.

By June, I decided I needed to make more drastic changes and increase the nutrient levels. My goal was to try to grow some sort of nuisance algae/diatoms/cyano in the display tank. I unplugged my skimmer and stopped dosing nutrients. I didn't do water changes. I stopped running carbon and gfo (hadn't used much gfo anyway). I reduced my lighting by a couple hours - MH runs for 4.5 hours, LED's for 7-8 hours with a 1 hr ramp up/down, so about 6 hours at higher intensity.

The only filtration that I used was the algae scrubber, an occasional filter sock in the sump, and short periods with a diatom filter (Marineland). The diatom filter is a great tool for cleaning out debris without changing the water. I connected it to a gravel vac to clean the dinos from the sand bed and would blow the rocks off with a powerhead. The dinos would always be back within a couple days but at least it was periodically reducing the population.

I should mention that I have an sps dominant tank, 105g with 6 fish. I fed the fish once per day and maintained Ca/Alk with dosing pumps and dose kalk every hour with the dosing pump. By the middle of August, my nitrate levels have climbed to about 2.5 ppm and phosphate to about 0.06 on a Hannah checker.

AND THE DINOFLAGELLATES ARE GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do now have some hair algae and cyano in the display tank that is a welcome sight. The only form of filtration that I'm using now is the algae scrubber, but it doesn't even seem to be growing much. I'm starting to see pods on the glass that I haven't seen since last fall.

Hopefully this information can help someone.

 

[DNA]

.
We have the same strain of dinos and used very similar methods for postive results so this is good news for sure.

I only got rid of about 99% and they have returned again to some extent after the cyanobacteria left.
It's a balancing act keeping nitrates and phosphates and still maintaining healthy sps.
Please keep posting your methods and how things progress.

 

[DNA]

I have less than 50 Astrea snails from an original batch of 10.
They have been in good health, but last week I was helping 2-3 a day back on their foot.
Last Friday I found 5 facing up so I investigated.

It turned out the pump for my Carbon and GFO reactors had failed some days ago.
Dead snails can be a sign of dino toxins. Carbon/GFO seem to work well at lessening the effect.

 

[LelandF.]

I also turned off my protein skimmer, and haven't turned it back on. After reading Randy's post about his pH climbing when he turned his skimmer off, I decided to unplug mine to hopefully keep the pH higher to help irradicate my dinoflagellates. It's been off for over 2 months now, and things have never looked better. I export nutrients with water changes, gfo, carbon, and by harvesting algae from my refugium. I also decided to keep the 25watt AquaUV sterilizer on the tank permanently.

Leland

 

[yeldarbj]

I did not notice any pH change after removing the skimmer. Do you feel like it was the raise in pH that helped with the dinos or something else?

 

[LelandF.]

It's hard to say if turning the skimmer off did anything for the dinoflagellates. The hydrogen peroxide made the biggest difference. The UV and increased water flow were also a big help.

I dosed kalkwasser during the day to raise the pH, fed the fish less, ran GFO and carbon as well, but I didn't see huge differences with them in the past, so I can't say they contributed much individually, but doing all of them together with the peroxide, flow, and UV removed all the Dino's.

Leland

 

[Aquarist007]

I also turned off my protein skimmer, and haven't turned it back on. After reading Randy's post about his pH climbing when he turned his skimmer off, I decided to unplug mine to hopefully keep the pH higher to help irradicate my dinoflagellates. It's been off for over 2 months now, and things have never looked better. I export nutrients with water changes, gfo, carbon, and by harvesting algae from my refugium. I also decided to keep the 25watt AquaUV sterilizer on the tank permanently.

Leland

You might find this an interesting thread
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2018134&page=15
And this one
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2430897

 

[LelandF.]

I've read both of those threads, and continue to follow both of them. The skimmerless thread is getting a bit off topic, and turning into using uv to kill ich thread lately. My tank is 3 years old, and I've wanted to turn the skimmer off for some time, to support more forms of sponges and macroalgaes, as I plan to add a few more caribbean photosynthetic sponges soon. I have a large number of gorgonians so I hope to see increased growth from them due to turning off the skimmer.

Leland

 

[Aquarist007]

I've read both of those threads, and continue to follow both of them. The skimmerless thread is getting a bit off topic, and turning into using uv to kill ich thread lately. My tank is 3 years old, and I've wanted to turn the skimmer off for some time, to support more forms of sponges and macroalgaes, as I plan to add a few more caribbean photosynthetic sponges soon. I have a large number of gorgonians so I hope to see increased growth from them due to turning off the skimmer.

Leland

Noticed any increase in nuisance algae on the glass?

 

[DNA]

I did not notice any pH change after removing the skimmer. Do you feel like it was the raise in pH that helped with the dinos or something else?

I've run my tank anywhere from pH 7.9 - 8,5 for weeks or months and it's safe to say pH alone in that range will not kill or leave a significant dent in Ostreopsis dinoflagellates.

 

[LelandF.]

Nuisance algae has shown up in very small amounts. Dersesia in a golfball diameter x 1/16" high patch, and a couple small lines of cyano on a few rocks where they meet the sand. The glass greens up in a day or two, instead of a brown or clear film once a week before. Sand is bright white, and rocks are cleaner than they've been in years. Coralline is starting to make a comeback too. Alkalinity stays around 9.3 dKH with kalkwasser dosed at night via an automatic top off & BRS peristaltic pump.

Leland

 

[Aquarist007]

It's hard to say if turning the skimmer off did anything for the dinoflagellates. The hydrogen peroxide made the biggest difference. The UV and increased water flow were also a big help.

I dosed kalkwasser during the day to raise the pH, fed the fish less, ran GFO and carbon as well, but I didn't see huge differences with them in the past, so I can't say they contributed much individually, but doing all of them together with the peroxide, flow, and UV removed all the Dino's.

Leland

I've been really lucky with Dino's but I think I will install uv on any of the tanks I look after if I come across it again

 

[DNA]

I have less than 50 Astrea snails from an original batch of 10.
They have been in good health, but last week I was helping 2-3 a day back on their foot.
Last Friday I found 5 facing up so I investigated.

It turned out the pump for my Carbon and GFO reactors had failed some days ago.
Dead snails can be a sign of dino toxins. Carbon/GFO seem to work well at lessening the effect.

I found one snail on it's back the day after I fixed the pump, but none after that.
It's a drop of knowledge into this vast uncharted sea.

 

[scubadan206]

I posted on another thread where your thread was mentioned, but I will also post the link to my thread. If you're interested take a look at what I did to rid my tank of my particular problem.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2428496

My tank is now completely free of the stuff after a battle for almost 5 months.

Daniel. :wavehand:

 

[nematode]

I've had a problem with a brown green growing mat I thought was a dinoflagellate, but I think I've IDed it as Eudorina sp algae in the volvocaceae family. I posted on a local reef site, but figure I'd also put it out here.
The tank

The algae :scale bar is 22.5 um

The history:
This is a 10 gal tank with a 10 gallon sump I used to use as a coral Q tank.
I was running it bare. A few snails, some random small fragments of live rock,
and this thing started growing -- taking over. I have completely cleaned out the tank at least 3 times, scrubbing every rock, cleaning the whole tank, draining all the water, and then using water from my reef tank at a water change to fill the q tank back up. I haven't put ANY food in the tank for the whole period ~ 6 months, but each time this thing starta to grow and by 6 weeks it looks like the picture I posted.
LED lighting 450/daylight ( 50:50) maybe 20 watts total. dimmable, not sure exact what the wattage is running at.
No skimmer, just a little carbon and GFO.
Circulation is modest.
pH 8.2, NO3=0 phosphates =0, calcium 400, KH 8 Mg 1350 - specs of the tank from which each of the full change outs has come from.
I haven't tried any of the high pH, lights out, H2O2, etc treatments since they seem to have very variable and I'd argue low probability success.

What I am thinking of trying:
I am going to try oryzalin (commercial name Surflan) on the recommendation of a plant microbial biologist colleague. It is a "plant specific" microtubule poison that is used as a pre-emergent herbicide. It has low human toxicity, moderate fish toxicity. I have no idea about invertebrates or zooxanthia. But since I only have a few pieces of soft coral in the tank, I don't think there is much to lose. At least I can determine if it will stop this outbreak - sort of- no good control. I can then add carbon, and try and seed the tank with some algae from my other tank with the hope of having a better algae take over.