Dinoflagellates.

[Montireef]

I've checked my skimmate under the microscope, seen some microbes and some dinos but never microbes attacking dinos, but I never let it culture for a week.
I will let it culture and take another look.

You will be surprised of the amount of life you will find. LPSs love it

 

[karimwassef]

My skimmate is ugly sludge that smells like feces. It varies from brown water with black sludge to yellow water with brown sludge depending on how wet I run it.

Are we talking about the same thing?

Isn't the skimmate what we're using to export the dinos and is primary intended to remove DOCs?

 

[karimwassef]

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/1348F12E-96C0-4A4D-AEAF-7470DABE230B_zpsajua2ixa.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/1348F12E-96C0-4A4D-AEAF-7470DABE230B_zpsajua2ixa.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 1348F12E-96C0-4A4D-AEAF-7470DABE230B_zpsajua2ixa.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/142D5EA8-6258-49D6-96EF-EFB3ACAB255E_zpsxglizf1g.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/142D5EA8-6258-49D6-96EF-EFB3ACAB255E_zpsxglizf1g.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 142D5EA8-6258-49D6-96EF-EFB3ACAB255E_zpsxglizf1g.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/4095C5A3-CC84-4304-9D0C-EE352A1A3583_zpsgrhxdy2g.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/4095C5A3-CC84-4304-9D0C-EE352A1A3583_zpsgrhxdy2g.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 4095C5A3-CC84-4304-9D0C-EE352A1A3583_zpsgrhxdy2g.jpg"/></a>

Pics just to be sure

 

[karimwassef]

Do you let it settle and just pour the yellow liquid? Do you throw the brown chunks in? Break them up first?

Monti - I'm not doubting you. I've just never heard about it so I want to know more.

 

[Montireef]

Yes, the same nasty stuff. [emoji6]

I poured it in two times, one litre in the morning and one litre in the night, only the liquid, avoid solid chunks.

What we want are the bacteria and microorganisms, not the solid inert stuff.

 

[Montireef]

The next day I watched cristal clear water, higher redox and many black poop from my turbo snails (they love it). Corals extended awesome polyps two days after pouring it.

 

[Budman422]

Interesting aproach. I have been battling dinos off and on for over a year. I am not sure what kind. This all started a couple years ago with a crash of red flatworms then I lost most of my corals. I also lost all green algae in refugium at that time. I slowly restocked tank but was not able to grow

 

[Budman422]

I was not able to grow any green algae such as calurpa or cheato.coral grew slow. Then the dinos appeared. I am no longer losing any coral or fish I am getting good growth but this stuff is persistent.i have tried peroxide,heavy kalk dosing and lights out it still comes back. I believe it is defiantly an imbalance. And until it gets in balance I will be dealing with it.

 

[joeyvu]

Yes, the same nasty stuff. [emoji6]

I poured it in two times, one litre in the morning and one litre in the night, only the liquid, avoid solid chunks.

What we want are the bacteria and microorganisms, not the solid inert stuff.

The last pic is the proof....He did it... I got to try it out too...

 

[Budman422]

Do you think with adding the aged skimmate you are adding something to prey on and eat dinos. Maybe there is something to it. It kind of works like a culture

 

[Lavoisier]

The next day I watched cristal clear water, higher redox and many black poop from my turbo snails (they love it). Corals extended awesome polyps two days after pouring it.

Wow, this approach makes no sense to me. If you are right then skimmers are a detriment to water quality. I know there are a number of successful skimmerless systems but anecdotally there appear to be more systems that use skimmers successfully. We know the research confirms high quality skimmers take out about 30% of organic contaminants in our water columns. Why would you think returning those contaminants would be a good thing?

 

[saltydog1]

Wow, this approach makes no sense to me. If you are right then skimmers are a detriment to water quality. I know there are a number of successful skimmerless systems but anecdotally there appear to be more systems that use skimmers successfully. We know the research confirms high quality skimmers take out about 30% of organic contaminants in our water columns. Why would you think returning those contaminants would be a good thing?

Exactly what I was thinking....:uhoh3:

 

[karimwassef]

Bud - that's interesting. I had an abundance of red flatworms in my refugium and they disappeared just before the dinos took over. Unlike your scenario, my chaeto is growing like crazy.

I don't think its a matter of high or low phosphates. It a biological problem with an invasive parasite.

 

[Montireef]

Most contaminants taken out by skimmers are bad indeed, no doubt about that.

I have run a 125 gal skimmerless acropora system for more than two years with no issues at all, every coral was thriving despite I held three big angelfish (annularis, imperator and xanthometopon), a big japonicus, one flavescens and many small fishes. The only drawback was very unstable and every change should be done very slowly, specially changes in their diet.

The point here is not what the skimmer is taking out, but the microorganisms that compete and grow in the skimmate. Do you know what happens if you let the skimmate sit in the skimmer cup warm in a humid environment that prevent rapid evaporation? I'll tell you: the skimmate turns turbid clear, just like the water you could find in a pond.

The skimmate holds the most efficient bacteria and microorganisms you could imagine: nematodes, rotifers, cocos, spiros...and ciliates, many ciliates (with use to be omnivore creatures). This is what we just want: efficient selected microorganisms able to prey on dinoflagellates which are on the first trophic step.

Just place some GAC on your filter/mesh to remove the bad stuff and release the stinky waters back to the tank, I'm sure you will be surprised.

 

[Montireef]

PO4 and NO3 showing 0,0 ppm readings 24 hours after pouring old skimmate back to the tank

 

[PorkchopExpress]

Wow, this approach makes no sense to me. If you are right then skimmers are a detriment to water quality. I know there are a number of successful skimmerless systems but anecdotally there appear to be more systems that use skimmers successfully. We know the research confirms high quality skimmers take out about 30% of organic contaminants in our water columns. Why would you think returning those contaminants would be a good thing?

i think the whole point is that this is being done on a system infested with dinos as a way to cultivate and introduce something that will outcompete or prey on the dinos...i don't think this is something you would otherwise do

 

[Montireef]

And this is the outcome:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeWIJrUzRoo&feature=youtu.be

No trace of ostreopsis ovata (probably the worst dinofalgellate I have ever come across) after a few days. Bear in mind that these microorganisms whatever they are grew in a hard and dangerous environment when in the skimmer cup. Then they where released in a mild and stable one (the tank) where they got loose and outcompeted/prey on every dinoflagellate around.

 

[Montireef]

i think the whole point is that this is being done on a system infested with dinos as a way to cultivate and introduce something that will outcompete or prey on the dinos...i don't think this is something you would otherwise do

Exactly.

No need to do in normal circumstances. It was a small sacrifice for the system just to get rid of the bad guys.



Just a few minutes to start a new year in my country...happy 2015 for everybody!!!

 

[saltydog1]

Exactly.

No need to do in normal circumstances. It was a small sacrifice for the system just to get rid of the bad guys.



Just a few minutes to start a new year in my country...happy 2015 for everybody!!!

Happy New Year !! :beer: :celeb1:

 

[Budman422]

I am now going macro in my sump like crazy but at the beginning of the dino outbreak I could not. I think he may be making a culture of something that is utilizing the dinos for balance on the system I guess I will save my skimate