Lavoisier
Premium Member
Good point...our systems are mimicking extraordinarily complex ecosystems, sometimes thinking outside the box is helpful. Happy New Year to all. :bounce3:
Dinoflagellates.
- Thread starter DNA
- Start date
Good point...our systems are mimicking extraordinarily complex ecosystems, sometimes thinking outside the box is helpful. Happy New Year to all. :bounce3:
karimwassef
Active member
How do you know that your skimmate has an abundance of the good guys and not the most potent dinos that you've finally managed to export?
for example, you cough to export a combination of germs, protective mucus and white blood cells fighting an infection. Why would you "re-ingest" that to recover the good white blood cells?
The micro-organisms you're introducing came from the same tank. Why would the trip through the skimmer and their development in the skimmate help if the pleasant conditions inside the tank didn't?
It worked for you - but it may not be repeatable? I'll wait to see if it works for anyone else.
Happy New Year.
for example, you cough to export a combination of germs, protective mucus and white blood cells fighting an infection. Why would you "re-ingest" that to recover the good white blood cells?
The micro-organisms you're introducing came from the same tank. Why would the trip through the skimmer and their development in the skimmate help if the pleasant conditions inside the tank didn't?
It worked for you - but it may not be repeatable? I'll wait to see if it works for anyone else.
Happy New Year.
Dinos are generally very delicate. If they thrive in a tank is just because they find no competitors. Hard to see a dinoflagellates bloom in a well established old systems, specially if it is not a low nutrient system.
There is a competition in the skimmate: only survive the strongest, normally ciliates, nematodes and some bacterial strains (never seen any dinoflagellate in my skimmate, pal)
for example, you cough to export a combination of germs, protective mucus and white blood cells fighting an infection. Why would you "re-ingest" that to recover the good white blood cells?
The micro-organisms you're introducing came from the same tank. Why would the trip through the skimmer and their development in the skimmate help if the pleasant conditions inside the tank didn't?
It worked for you - but it may not be repeatable? I'll wait to see if it works for anyone else.
Happy New Year.
I'm not sure if you got the point, mate. Your example is not valid: maybe if you let that stuff mature for a week or two you would find only the strongest guys that will be able to outcompete and rid the rest. That is the point: natural selection and reintroduction to unbalance a dino-established system.
Dinoflagellates are so delicate and easy to kill...it's only that in ideal conditions they reproduce very fast (both sexual and asexual) and can suffocate any system. Some of them are very toxic such as ostreopsis strains. The fact that they are usually mixotrophic makes it even more hard to do away.
karimwassef
Active member
Quick survey question to other victims (and former victims) -
Do you have a low live rock to water ratio?
I have about 45lbs of real LR to my 600gal. I consider that very low, but it's very light stuff and I made a lot of my own concrete stuff.
Do you have a low live rock to water ratio?
I have about 45lbs of real LR to my 600gal. I consider that very low, but it's very light stuff and I made a lot of my own concrete stuff.
Interesting that we have all been thowing away the cure all along, i would try it but being i run ozone i am not sure if it would be a good idea to dump my skimmate into my tank( it would probably take me a month to get 2 cups of skimmate due to ozone) , any thoughts on if ozone would have a impact on my skimmate breeding the appropriate ciliates to attack the dino's. If so i guss i may be trying to purchase some skimmmate.
karimwassef
Active member
Ok. Looking for a pattern.
How about this - anyone use bio balls or another kind of nitrate generating filtration?
I don't have any media.
How about this - anyone use bio balls or another kind of nitrate generating filtration?
I don't have any media.
DNA
New member
My thought was that the live rock brought in the little heroes and was ready to prove or disprove that skimmate alone had anything to do with it.
I've now added 1 liter of skimmate over two days without any visible results.
My bet is that the new live rock brought in the killers and the skimmate either assisted in their reproduction or has no effect.
---
A large chunk of my fellow local reefers have dinos.
We are on an small island in the far north with almost no import of live stock other than fish.
karimwassef
Active member
Ok. Here's my update. First, I see four different kinds of parasites that I believe are dinos and I am using peroxide and a uv sterilizer.
1. Marine velvet Amyloodinium (killed most of my large fish) - I think the sterilizer is helping here since the remaining fish have stopped scraping themselves on the rocks and are eating better.
2. Photosynthetic clear hair (air bubbles on the top of rocks) - I think the peroxide and UV are working well here. These are almost gone without any manual removal. The pods had an impact here too.
3. Dark non-photosynthetic hairy goop - no change almost. I think these need manual removal.
4. Thin hairs rising from the sand (look like a garden of sparse grass rising from the sand) - no change here either.
I think the UV and peroxide work for dinos that go through a free floating stage (at night maybe). The stuff that's in the shade or growing from the sand under rock shelves needs to be mechanically removed.
1. Marine velvet Amyloodinium (killed most of my large fish) - I think the sterilizer is helping here since the remaining fish have stopped scraping themselves on the rocks and are eating better.
2. Photosynthetic clear hair (air bubbles on the top of rocks) - I think the peroxide and UV are working well here. These are almost gone without any manual removal. The pods had an impact here too.
3. Dark non-photosynthetic hairy goop - no change almost. I think these need manual removal.
4. Thin hairs rising from the sand (look like a garden of sparse grass rising from the sand) - no change here either.
I think the UV and peroxide work for dinos that go through a free floating stage (at night maybe). The stuff that's in the shade or growing from the sand under rock shelves needs to be mechanically removed.
DNA
New member
I have a 400g system
On day 1 the skimmate was 7 days old.
Day 1: 0,5 liters of skimmate added in the morning.
Day 2: 0,5 liters of skimmate added in the morning.
Day 3: 0,5 liters of skimmate added in the morning.
Day 3: 0,5 liters of skimmate added in the afternoon.
2 liters in all added over 3 days.
No reduction or increase was noticed in the dino population on the sandbed.
In the last round I emptied the cup right after adding the skimmate.
In less than an hour the skimmer had gathered around 0,5 liters of skimmate of similar transparency.
My results:
Skimmate alone does not help against Ostreopsis dinoflagellates.
If skimmers are really effective at removing an organism that prays on Ostreopsis, it's likely it can multiply in the skimmer cup so further tests are in order.
Right now I 'd like to see if this will work with added live rock.
On day 1 the skimmate was 7 days old.
Day 1: 0,5 liters of skimmate added in the morning.
Day 2: 0,5 liters of skimmate added in the morning.
Day 3: 0,5 liters of skimmate added in the morning.
Day 3: 0,5 liters of skimmate added in the afternoon.
2 liters in all added over 3 days.
No reduction or increase was noticed in the dino population on the sandbed.
In the last round I emptied the cup right after adding the skimmate.
In less than an hour the skimmer had gathered around 0,5 liters of skimmate of similar transparency.
My results:
Skimmate alone does not help against Ostreopsis dinoflagellates.
If skimmers are really effective at removing an organism that prays on Ostreopsis, it's likely it can multiply in the skimmer cup so further tests are in order.
Right now I 'd like to see if this will work with added live rock.
karimwassef
Active member
DNA - how about a targeted approach to see if there is a local change?
Instead of pouring it in, how about choosing a particular rock and injecting the skimmate on a specific region and cutting back the flow for an hour.
I realize we're not very scientific, but this may demonstrate if there is any effect independent of dosing %?
My LFS recommended adding live bacteria. FritzZyme 9000 or StressZyme. I don't think it'll hurt but I think we need larger microorganisms not smaller? Maybe they outcompete for scarce nutrients more efficiently?
Instead of pouring it in, how about choosing a particular rock and injecting the skimmate on a specific region and cutting back the flow for an hour.
I realize we're not very scientific, but this may demonstrate if there is any effect independent of dosing %?
My LFS recommended adding live bacteria. FritzZyme 9000 or StressZyme. I don't think it'll hurt but I think we need larger microorganisms not smaller? Maybe they outcompete for scarce nutrients more efficiently?
karimwassef
Active member
I think my low flow UV is working. I reduced my main return rate to 600gph and at least 50% (300gph) passes through the UV. I also overfed which allowed a little algae to start to form...
I added 20 snails to test.
I added 20 snails to test.
PorkchopExpress
New member
that's good news...i have nothing new to report except i'm now seeing other algaes start to grow - gha and perhaps some diatoms on the sand - which is a much more welcome sight compared to dinos...same low flow through my UV...SPS are coloring up nicely and growing faster than they've ever grown...i'm not really seeing any detrimental effects to having such a gigantic UV sterilizer and low flow...sure i'm nuking my microfauna but if all my corals, fish, and inhabitants are thriving and i'm no longer seeing dino blooms then is it such a bad thing? (serious question, i don't know what repercussions there could be if i keep my bazooka uv sterilizer online)
karimwassef
Active member
I'm thinking the same thing. I think it's more natural to avoid the UV unless you consider the sun's constant zapping of the surface water on the reefs.
I'll keep it on until I think my tank is mature enough to wean it off the UV. Lots of coralline algae, low but controlled macroalgae, clean sand, etc...
I'll keep it on until I think my tank is mature enough to wean it off the UV. Lots of coralline algae, low but controlled macroalgae, clean sand, etc...
Just an FYI...
I did a battery of Algae X treatments, eight I think - I feel I might have lost count. So far the dinos look gone (subdued?) but I lost all my SPS (RRTN, or "really rapid tissue narcosis") and the LPS still don't look too happy. The tank was new so that wasn't a huge deal. I followed the dosing instructions to the letter. Fish seem OK. Soft corals are not ecstatic, but that may be related to the reduced light cycle. Beats completely tearing the tank down and starting over, if its not just a temporary thing which I'm half expecting.
I did a battery of Algae X treatments, eight I think - I feel I might have lost count. So far the dinos look gone (subdued?) but I lost all my SPS (RRTN, or "really rapid tissue narcosis") and the LPS still don't look too happy. The tank was new so that wasn't a huge deal. I followed the dosing instructions to the letter. Fish seem OK. Soft corals are not ecstatic, but that may be related to the reduced light cycle. Beats completely tearing the tank down and starting over, if its not just a temporary thing which I'm half expecting.
karimwassef
Active member
Have you tried a low flow UV or peroxide?
Ultra Algae X is working! Dinos stopped growing after first dose second dose they are for sure dieing.
Corals are affected but this is acceptable for me if the dinos die.
I will report back after some more doses
I should note contrary to garyincos experience my sps actually seem to be doing better after I started dosing with better polyp extension. My lps and gsp dont like it tho
Corals are affected but this is acceptable for me if the dinos die.
I will report back after some more doses
I should note contrary to garyincos experience my sps actually seem to be doing better after I started dosing with better polyp extension. My lps and gsp dont like it tho
