Diving pics from today, I photographed my first Lionfish in atlantic waters!!!! PICS!
- Thread starter streetjudge79
- Start date
streetjudge79
Active member
Well, I think you have a bigger chance getting stung by a scorpion fish than a Lion fish. Lions stick to the reefs and swim out in the open, making them pretty easy to see. Unless you try to grab it, I think there is a low chance of getting stung.Scorpions blend with the rocks.... I know, I got stung by one at the beach last year.
Jgoal55
Active member
not sure why they are considered such a danger but a couple of the main reasons I have heard is 1) that they are reproducing at a much faster rate in our waters than in the native habitat and 2) that they have fewer significant predators here than in their native habitat.
I think there is a large eel in their native habitat that hunts lionfish. Ill try and find the name of it.
If either of the above is true, the damage can be significant. Just take a look at the goats in the galapagos and the damage they have done there........
On that note, I meant to say in my earlier post and I forgot, awesome Pictures!!!
I think there is a large eel in their native habitat that hunts lionfish. Ill try and find the name of it.
If either of the above is true, the damage can be significant. Just take a look at the goats in the galapagos and the damage they have done there........
On that note, I meant to say in my earlier post and I forgot, awesome Pictures!!!
greenbean36191
Premium Member
Lionfish populations aren't regulated by predation in their natural habitat. They have no major predators as adults. There are a few isolated cases of cornetfish and groupers eating them, but they don't seem to be regular events. In their native habitat they're probably limited by larval/juvenile survival and the availability of food.
The concern about them here is that they are competing with the native predators like groupers for food and that they are eating native species. If they are limited by food availability then they could potentially limit the population of other large predators or even displace them if they're better hunters or less susceptible to other population controls (like sport fishermen).
The concern about them here is that they are competing with the native predators like groupers for food and that they are eating native species. If they are limited by food availability then they could potentially limit the population of other large predators or even displace them if they're better hunters or less susceptible to other population controls (like sport fishermen).
RicksReefs
New member
I still think possibly being fined for live posession on the water over being allowed to collect and sell as many as possible to wholesalers (and maybe even closing pacific imports) is silly.
at 5-10 bux a pop, I'd have the bahamas cleared in 6 months and retire there on the money.
unless they ban ownership, people will still buy them. so let's shift the collection area to the caribbean and kill two birds with one stone.
at 5-10 bux a pop, I'd have the bahamas cleared in 6 months and retire there on the money.
unless they ban ownership, people will still buy them. so let's shift the collection area to the caribbean and kill two birds with one stone.
Young Frankenstein
New member
I don't believe the story that lion fish are here because of aquarium releases.
Global worming and higher temperature waters have shifted fish populations to different areas.
In NJ and NY they are catching fish they have never seen before, could the lion fish travel so far, the answer is yes.
Global worming and higher temperature waters have shifted fish populations to different areas.
In NJ and NY they are catching fish they have never seen before, could the lion fish travel so far, the answer is yes.
RicksReefs
New member
ya, I'm not a believer that it was aquarium fish either.
it's more likely from ballast water. incoming ships have to dump it (I think) 9 miles out, into the gulfstream and is why first reports were of juveniles in the deep off the carolinas on up to NYC and over to the bahamas before reports started coming in of florida lions.
why do we have so few, yet the bahamas have hundreds/thousands?
it's more likely from ballast water. incoming ships have to dump it (I think) 9 miles out, into the gulfstream and is why first reports were of juveniles in the deep off the carolinas on up to NYC and over to the bahamas before reports started coming in of florida lions.
why do we have so few, yet the bahamas have hundreds/thousands?
"Global worming" ??? EWWWWW!
streetjudge79
Active member
Too bad the Emperor angels, Regal Angels and golden butterflies don't do the same thing! Why Lions????
Elan L.
New member
hey, many types of rats, birds, and reptiles that did not originally start out in north america are now part of the ecosystem hundreds of years later. this can be a migration. Example: im pretty sure that trout did not exist in most parts of the country until they were introduced by settlers. they are now vital to the ecosystem
saintperez
New member
THe problem is if they hit reefs close to shore where little kids are. Not sure what it would take to take out a small child but it's way too close for comfort.
Sharks don't touch them? We have plenty of Nurse sharks.
Sharks don't touch them? We have plenty of Nurse sharks.
scubasteve247
New member
It is highly unlikely that the lion fish could have come here without man. There are no tropical waters connecting the Atlantic and pacific other then the panama canal.
Where did they come from..... Look no further then Atlantis resorts open cuircit lion fish system... They are pelagic spawners.....
If you won't kill it please collect it or tell someone who will. They can have a terrible effect on native species.
I myself have seen purple tangs, sailfin tangs, dogface puffer, emperor angel, paser angel, yellow tang, oc. Clownfish and a hippo tang in our waters
Where did they come from..... Look no further then Atlantis resorts open cuircit lion fish system... They are pelagic spawners.....
If you won't kill it please collect it or tell someone who will. They can have a terrible effect on native species.
I myself have seen purple tangs, sailfin tangs, dogface puffer, emperor angel, paser angel, yellow tang, oc. Clownfish and a hippo tang in our waters
saintperez
New member
Wow, where do you swim??? I want to go there and collect! Is there any law against collecting non native fish? I know for example that is open season all year round for iguanas in FL, wonder if the same applies to fish and marine life in general.
greenbean36191
Premium Member
It's pretty hard to argue that the lionfish in the Atlantic are from anything but aquarium releases.
During Andrew, it's known that at least 6 lionfish escaped from a broken aquarium on Biscayne Bay. Several were spotted in the area shortly afterwards. The first lionfish captured in the Atlantic came from Miami in 2000. Within a few years they had been spotted in South Carolina and within another year, NY. The first capture in the Keys only came within the last year. The timing of the spread suggests they had only recently become established in large numbers in the early 2000s and the site of introduction was somewhere south of SC and north of the Keys.
Genetic testing of the Atlantic population shows that every one of them captured so far can trace their ancestry back to about 6-8 founding individuals, all from the same small region in Indonesia and that there's not just one, but 2 species. That is huge because it basically eliminates the already remote possibility of the fish coming in from ballast water. The fact that they came from one of the biggest livestock collection areas in the world is also highly suggestive.
The ballast water hypothesis fails for a few reasons. First is that to get from their native habitat to the Atlantic there are only a few routes. The northern route through the Arctic Ocean and the southern route through the Southern Ocean would kill them due to temperature. The routes through the Suez or Panama Canals require the ships to dump and then take on new ballast water on either side of the canals.
The other big flaw is that there were 6-8 founders from 2 different species all hailing from the same area. The chances of lionfish making it across in ballast water once are small. The chances of them making it across at least 6 times within a few years of each other is very remote. The chance of each one of those ships bringing them across sailing from the same small area is highly improbable. If it's a common occurrence for lionfish to survive in ballast water, as 6-8 introductions would suggest, then there should be invasions elsewhere, especially near the canals and those invasions should originate from areas all across the lionfish's native range. There aren't and they don't.
During Andrew, it's known that at least 6 lionfish escaped from a broken aquarium on Biscayne Bay. Several were spotted in the area shortly afterwards. The first lionfish captured in the Atlantic came from Miami in 2000. Within a few years they had been spotted in South Carolina and within another year, NY. The first capture in the Keys only came within the last year. The timing of the spread suggests they had only recently become established in large numbers in the early 2000s and the site of introduction was somewhere south of SC and north of the Keys.
Genetic testing of the Atlantic population shows that every one of them captured so far can trace their ancestry back to about 6-8 founding individuals, all from the same small region in Indonesia and that there's not just one, but 2 species. That is huge because it basically eliminates the already remote possibility of the fish coming in from ballast water. The fact that they came from one of the biggest livestock collection areas in the world is also highly suggestive.
The ballast water hypothesis fails for a few reasons. First is that to get from their native habitat to the Atlantic there are only a few routes. The northern route through the Arctic Ocean and the southern route through the Southern Ocean would kill them due to temperature. The routes through the Suez or Panama Canals require the ships to dump and then take on new ballast water on either side of the canals.
The other big flaw is that there were 6-8 founders from 2 different species all hailing from the same area. The chances of lionfish making it across in ballast water once are small. The chances of them making it across at least 6 times within a few years of each other is very remote. The chance of each one of those ships bringing them across sailing from the same small area is highly improbable. If it's a common occurrence for lionfish to survive in ballast water, as 6-8 introductions would suggest, then there should be invasions elsewhere, especially near the canals and those invasions should originate from areas all across the lionfish's native range. There aren't and they don't.
saintperez
New member
I'm unclear as to your conclusion of how they got here? DO you have one or are you ruling out possibilities?
livingstone
New member
Re: Diving pics from today, I photographed my first Lionfish in atlantic waters!!!! PICS!
Re: Diving pics from today, I photographed my first Lionfish in atlantic waters!!!! PICS!
Wow! You could actually hear him screaming "streetjudge79"? I can never tell what my dive buddy is saying.
Nice pics. Thanks.
Fine predicament we're in with the lionfish.
Re: Diving pics from today, I photographed my first Lionfish in atlantic waters!!!! PICS!
Wow! You could actually hear him screaming "streetjudge79"? I can never tell what my dive buddy is saying.
Nice pics. Thanks.
Fine predicament we're in with the lionfish.
