Roland Jacques
Premium Member
hope this helps. 4xs runs to hot, unless you can do some major cooling the lamp 2xs is better.
this is 4xs
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/planted-tank-faq/175-cheap-lighting-odno.html
DIY Icecap...its not what you think
- Thread starter reefburnaby
- Start date
hope this helps. 4xs runs to hot, unless you can do some major cooling the lamp 2xs is better.
this is 4xs
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/planted-tank-faq/175-cheap-lighting-odno.html
Roland Jacques
Premium Member
since it has been done for over 5 years by many people, including electricians, engineers,... I think your fears ??? but that OK
BTW running a gas engine on jet fuel is not dangerous ether it just wont run.
I'm not sure that's correct. I can guarantee burned valves, and likely other serious engine malfunctions if it did start, but I think it would run, at least briefly.
That's a topic for another thread, on another BB
As for overdriving bulbs, I would be concerned about safety issues, mostly the ballast, and the endcaps. Bulbs should just burn out, not explode or anything like that.
I understand that a lot of people are running this type of set up, rather long term at this point, but I couldn't be comfortable with it. After having one of those dollar store power strips catch fire in my basement (tank related), I tend to shy away from "cheap, and probably okay"
gpodio
Premium Member
Here's the classic wiring diagram for overdriving bulbs:
In series, you sum the bulb's wattages as if you are running a longer tube.
If it's 15W bulbs you have, I would suggest you run them off a single feed at 32W. This should work very well for you at 2x overdrive. Just run one red feed to one end of the bulb and a yellow to the other. Do the same for the second bulb and leave out the remaining two wires or add another two bulbs
IceFire, besides the older magnetic ballasts that ran starters, I have yet to see an electronic ballast do anything more than heat up and quit working. I have purposely tried to push bulbs to the point of no return and the most they will do is spark internally as the electrodes fuse and then quit working... The only concern I have is with cheap end caps, oddly enough the one time they did spark and burn up on me was in a regular NO fixture... go figure. It's a danger that is ever present in all fixtures, specially in humid environments. This is why it is important to "bridge" the two pins on an endcap when using a single feed/wire to the endcap. Even in regular commercial fixtures this isn't always done and it should be! Bridging the pins divides the current load across the two pins, greatly reducing the chances of arching or overheating. It will also prolong electrode life within the bulb.
Hope that helps
Giancarlo
miatawnt2b
New member
here is a good writeup
http://www.geocities.com/teeley2/overdrv1.html
also do a google search for overdriving fluorescent ballasts
You will find there is a lot of info out there about it. Folks in the plantgrow arena have been doing this a long time.
-J
http://www.geocities.com/teeley2/overdrv1.html
also do a google search for overdriving fluorescent ballasts
You will find there is a lot of info out there about it. Folks in the plantgrow arena have been doing this a long time.
-J
Not my only concern, but I'd agree that your endcaps are most likely to be the ignition point, should one of these set ups catch fire.
Giancarlo, if you would please explain "bridging the pins" a little further. I think that's important for people to know about, and the way you said it could leave some people wondering.
gpodio
Premium Member
Actually that link posted above explains it perfectly, here's a picture from that link:
As you can see, the is a jumper wire connecting the two pins when a single feed is used from the ballast (pictured bottom right). By doing this, the current to the electrode travels through both pins. Once the bulb is lit, the voltage drops but the initial starting voltage can easily arch if the contact between the pin and endcap is not good. Having both pins connected greatly reduces the chances of arching.
Hope that's clearer
Giancarlo
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gpodio
Premium Member
BTW, instant start ballasts simplify the wiring by a long shot. I prefer not to use rapid start ballasts personally as you are forced to use a single pin to drive the lamp (the other pin used to pre-heat the filament). Seeing our lights are turned on and off only a couple times a day, there is little to no advantage in using rapid start ballasts. Just a consideration in case anyone is ballast shopping to try any of this...
Giancarlo
Giancarlo
Roland Jacques
Premium Member
rapid stat are easyer on the lamps normaly ( longer lamp life) , im would think they might still have the same benifits when in OD also. not sure?
Roland Jacques
Premium Member
Maybe a few gas engine (drag race cars).
JP-4 & JP-5 (jet fuel) would require compression of 13:1 or higher ratio to get the fuel hot enough to burn. it is pretty much the same as diesel fuel.
As for fire likelihood it is much more likely to have have fire potential because of loose wiring... (ive seen a few NO fixtures melted/ fires...) nothing a a GFI could not have prevented. A GFI should be on all aquarium Equipment IMO
TheGriffin
New member
Alot of people dont relize that JP-5 is just Kerosene. JP-4 is a mixture of gasoline and Kerosene in the neighborhood of 50-50 to 35 gas and 65 Kerosene.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Just the same, most people think high octane fuel burns better or has more BTUs. The octane actually reduces the combustion temperature and volatility.
Don't worry dgenr8 most folks who are not aviators or aviation buffs don't know that kind of stuff.
Now "rocket fuel" is a different story. But even some of that is not as high tech as you would think.
RP-1 is LOX and Kerosene! (LOX is... you guessed it liquid Oxygen)
The "nasty stuff" is the Hypergolic fuel like Hydrazine and Nitrogen Tetroxide. Nasty nasty stuff from any perspective.
Don't worry dgenr8 most folks who are not aviators or aviation buffs don't know that kind of stuff.
Now "rocket fuel" is a different story. But even some of that is not as high tech as you would think.
RP-1 is LOX and Kerosene! (LOX is... you guessed it liquid Oxygen)
The "nasty stuff" is the Hypergolic fuel like Hydrazine and Nitrogen Tetroxide. Nasty nasty stuff from any perspective.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Roland the reason we burn "av gas" or high octane fuels in some drag cars is because of the high compression. More volatile fuel would detonate long before the piston reached TDC (top dead center). Detonation is the act of the fuel compressing and exploding as the piston is still on the upstroke. This can cuase a little "knocking" and rob some power in the family car. However on a high torque, high horsepower motor the effects can be spectacular. These include the internal parts of the engine being sent flying through the block and into the ether!
That brings us to "fuel cars" and what they run... It is nasty stuff called Nitro Methane. BUT a fuel engine does not run like a normal engine. Instead of fuel vapor being pulled into the pistons, these monsters consume straight liquid Nitro Methane with a burp of air. The extreme compression causes a violent explosion. That is why they can get 6000+ hp out of a somewhat small internal combustion engine. That is why they also explode like bombs when something goes wrong.
Sorry... back to the topic at hand.
That brings us to "fuel cars" and what they run... It is nasty stuff called Nitro Methane. BUT a fuel engine does not run like a normal engine. Instead of fuel vapor being pulled into the pistons, these monsters consume straight liquid Nitro Methane with a burp of air. The extreme compression causes a violent explosion. That is why they can get 6000+ hp out of a somewhat small internal combustion engine. That is why they also explode like bombs when something goes wrong.
Sorry... back to the topic at hand.
spence15610
New member
A friend of mine who works for a lighting company that installs and services commercial lighting systems, says that the Advance or GE Max 4 x 32/T8 electronic ballast is the same as a Workhorse 5 ballast and if you open them up they all look the same. Has anyone else ever heard of that ?
Urban_Squrill
New member
Wow I started reading this thread a couple days ago. Dam some good infomation. I have a 4x32 ballast currently running one t8 6500k 4x. I am debaiting wether or not to add my second bulb I have sitting around and just 2x them. If I were to run those 2 bulbs at 2x and have my 2x110 VHo setup what would this be compairable to? What could I keep.
spence,
Please take no offence, but can you define "looks the same"?
If you open any electronic ballast, they all have caps, resistors and small coils. Me not being well versed in electronics, they would "all look the same to me".
Though I have changed out hundreds of ballasts of all types in a commercial setting, I personally couldnt build one or tell if one was exactly the same as the other.
Maybe he could tell. I was just wondering aloud, as it would be nice to know which ballasts are really the same, but rebranded.
Please take no offence, but can you define "looks the same"?
If you open any electronic ballast, they all have caps, resistors and small coils. Me not being well versed in electronics, they would "all look the same to me".
Though I have changed out hundreds of ballasts of all types in a commercial setting, I personally couldnt build one or tell if one was exactly the same as the other.
Maybe he could tell. I was just wondering aloud, as it would be nice to know which ballasts are really the same, but rebranded.
gpodio
Premium Member
True, but rapid start are only "easier" on the bulbs during initial startup. Post-startup, the lamp is driven by a single lead from a single endpin (at least on the rapid start ballasts I have tested). So while a kitchen light that gets turned on and off many times a day will last longer on a rapid start ballast, an aquarium light that gets 1-2 start cycles a day is more likely to die of other causes than depletion of the emission mixture that is on the filament (the coating that is protected by rapid start ballasts). Further, seeing we're overdriving the bulbs, we're better off being able to feed the extra current through both endpins than one alone.
If I'm not mistaken, the "statistics" taken into consideration when choosing rapid over instant start ballasts is around 3-4 hours of "on-time" a day. Anything under this and rapid start is suggested, over it and you'll likely deplete something else in the lamp before the filament coatings.
As for the workhorse ballasts, there is little difference between ballasts full stop, just the outer shell differs and amount of current each circuit provides. The WH5 is a 128W ballast, identical to a T8 4x32W ballast as far as current goes. When used on 55W PC bulbs, two 32W feeds are used to power the lamp at 64W, a mild form of ODPC
(This is where the 55W/65W issue comes from, it's a matter of what ballast you run them from, a 55W or 2x32W...) But frequency is very important in a ballast and this is what sets many ballasts aside, if the ballasts you mentioned run at the same frequency as the WorkHorse series then yes they are identical.Giancarlo
