DIY LEDs - The write-up

[kcress]

One of the things I want to try is running the ones on each end of the tank parallel to the end and tip it in some. THen run five parallel to the front of the tank and tip them so they aim for the back. This hopefully will keep a lot of the light off the glass and cut down (if not eliminate) the algae.

Great! I've been waiting for someone to do this in a major way. :beer:

 

[MontyJack]

I know! This is the first attempt so that is why there are so many on it. 60 degree optics for sure (ordered them and there are some on it already) and on dimmable meanwells controlled by my profilux.

How are you connecting your ELNs to the ProfiLux? I had some struggle to do that since you can just hook-up 3 (9.9mA) on one diming channel (10mA). I build a DIY amplifier bud it didn't worked well. After all I ended up with a manufactured one from Osram. Not cheap by the way, but you can hook-up up to 99 MW ELN on one channel. One ELN needs 3.3mA the amplifier provides 100mA.

 

[MikePetro]

Questions for those who tread this road before me.

Questions for those who tread this road before me.

Hi All,

First, this has got to be the most informative thread on the subject I have found anywhere. Thank you to all who have contributed.

I am getting ready to embark on project to light a 72l x 16w x 28d 150gal African Tank. I dont "grow" anything (hehe except algae) so I am not overly concerned about the atinic spectrum. I mainly want the shimmering effect that LEDs offer. I currently use 2-96w compact fluorescents at 10000k. I estimate they give me about 8500 lumens each.

I estimate I will need about 200w of LED to get an acceptable level of light. I have access to a wealth of massive scrap aluminum heat sinks where I work. They were used to sink massive inverters. Some of these sinks are as much as 50lbs each. Anyway, thermal management can be accomplished, maybe even without a fan.

My first question is that I noticed most of you guys use 3w LEDs for your projects. That would mean I would need about 70 LEDs to get the lumens I need. Is there any reason that I couldnt use some of the 10w or even 50w LEDs that are now available? For example, four 50w LEDS spaced evenly, or even twenty 12w LEDS would be much more manageable from a construction point of view and less expensive per lumen.

With chips like these available it is hard not to consider these options.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5766
http://www.ledssuperbright.com/25w-led-c-22/25w-high-power-led-1400-lumens-p-108
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11809

Your thoughts and comments would be greatly appreciated!

Mike

 

[skippyreef]

How are you connecting your ELNs to the ProfiLux? I had some struggle to do that since you can just hook-up 3 (9.9mA) on one diming channel (10mA). I build a DIY amplifier bud it didn't worked well. After all I ended up with a manufactured one from Osram. Not cheap by the way, but you can hook-up up to 99 MW ELN on one channel. One ELN needs 3.3mA the amplifier provides 100mA.

I was hoping to daisy chain them. What model Osaram did you end up with BTW

 

[MontyJack]

I was hoping to daisy chain them. What model Osaram did you end up with BTW

You can't put them in chain, the voltage will be divided by the number of drivers and you will not get 10V to the driver to be 100% full dim on. If you put them in parallel the problem is you divide the current of 10mA and after a sudden point the voltage cannot raise more, Ohms law. So you didn't get the 100% signal either. Take a look on this http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15811380#post15811380

The Osram model is Dim SA http://www.osram.cz/_global/pdf/Professional/ECG_&_LMS/LMS_instructions/DIM_SA_e.pdf

 

[skippyreef]

I have ten ELN 60-48D to dim. Will one of these units work and then hook top profilux?

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Great! I've been waiting for someone to do this in a major way. :beer:

Agreed! Sounds like FishMan has a nice build pending.

Hi All,

First, this has got to be the most informative thread on the subject I have found anywhere. Thank you to all who have contributed.

I am getting ready to embark on project to light a 72l x 16w x 28d 150gal African Tank. I dont "grow" anything (hehe except algae) so I am not overly concerned about the atinic spectrum. I mainly want the shimmering effect that LEDs offer. I currently use 2-96w compact fluorescents at 10000k. I estimate they give me about 8500 lumens each.

I estimate I will need about 200w of LED to get an acceptable level of light.

RED FLAG! Probably WAY WAY WAY more than you need to replace two 96w PCs. Don't try to figure it based on Lumens, it's not really an equivalent measure for comparing different types of lighting with respect to aquarium use. Most people are finding that X wattage of PCs can be replaced by about 30 - 50% that wattage of LEDs, so you might only need 60 - 80w of HP LEDs.

My first question is that I noticed most of you guys use 3w LEDs for your projects. That would mean I would need about 70 LEDs to get the lumens I need. Is there any reason that I couldnt use some of the 10w or even 50w LEDs that are now available? For example, four 50w LEDS spaced evenly, or even twenty 12w LEDS would be much more manageable from a construction point of view and less expensive per lumen.

Don't get hooked on the wattage rating of a particular LED. It's a really poor way to describe HP LEDs. It's like grouping automobiles by the number of people they can carry then expecting that to translate to zero-to-sixty times.

The exact LEDs currently in favor have gained that favor for good reason - they're the best in the world for this application. The most important criteria being correct color spectrum and high efficiency. A cool white XP-G can easily hit 130 - 140 lumens per watt. Most of those big multi-emitter LEDs (the 50w stuff you're talking about) are around 60 - 70 lumens/watt. So, you'd be operating at HALF the efficiency. There's some good basic science behind this - high junction temps are the main enemy in the life of an LED, and when you pack 50w worth of LEDs into a die that's barely 1 square cm, there's no way you can get heat out of the package as well as when you only have one emitter in the same package.

Efficiency might not seem THAT important, but once your down to those levels, you might as well just keep your PCs. Besides translating into electrical costs, poor efficiency means more heat, which means even less output and worse efficiency (these LEDs run at their most efficient when they're cool), so the problem compounds itself.

Plus, ESPECIALLY in a lower-output fixture for a fish only tank, if you use high wattage multi-emitter LEDs, you are going to have really poor light spread. It'll be hard enough to get good coverage on your tank with individual emitters, much less a small number of higher-output emitters.

 

[MikePetro]

RED FLAG! Probably WAY WAY WAY more than you need to replace two 96w PCs. Don't try to figure it based on Lumens, it's not really an equivalent measure for comparing different types of lighting with respect to aquarium use. Most people are finding that X wattage of PCs can be replaced by about 30 - 50% that wattage of LEDs, so you might only need 60 - 80w of HP LEDs.

OK, if I dont calculate based on lumens, how do I calculate adequate coverage?

What depth will a XP-G reach?
How do I determine spread of an XP-G at a 32" height?
I know that optics influence both answers, but where do I start?

Don't get hooked on the wattage rating of a particular LED. It's a really poor way to describe HP LEDs.

OK, so again, how do I estimate my needs, the 28" depth is a concern, but I feel sure I can overcome that with optics. For example if using the Cree XP-Gs would I simply have to see the coverage and then multiply it out? My gut instinct is that it takes more power to overcome the depth of the tank. Would the MC-Es be too high of a heat concentration as well?

If I were to purchase some misc components so that I could do prototype testing on my actual tank, what direction would you recommend? I could build a small heatsink with a chip or two so that I could gauge coverage under real conditions.

Thanks again, this is invaluable!

Mike

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

The challenge with lower-output builds will pretty much always be spacing issues, i.e. if you only "need" 36 LEDs on your build and you space them out evenly across the tank, you might get undesirable spotlighting.

You talk about penetration to the bottom of the tank, but if it's just a fish-only tank, I wouldn't worry. There will be enough light to see stuff. You just need to get the right number to avoid spotlighting and have good coverage.

XP-G is probably the best choice for an LED because it's high efficiency AND has a wide viewing angle, meaning a large spread of light. MC-E is basically four XR-E in the same package, so probably not worth it IMHO. It's not just about heat concentration, it's about spreading the light evenly around the tank - if you have four separate LEDs you can spread out, you'll get better coverage than having the same amount of light coming from one LED.

What sort of overall color are you looking for in the tank? You said "African" so I'm wondering if this is a FW cichlid tank? If so, I'd imagine you'll want a warmer color than most reef tanks. You might be able to get away with all cool white XP-Gs. If you're interested in building a test fixture, you might want to start with 12 XP-Gs and plan for it to cover 2' of your tank's length, i.e. with an ultimate goal of having 36 LEDs. That'll be on the low end of what's reasonable, so if you find that 12 LEDs provides poor coverage for a third of your tank, just bump it up to four 12-LED fixtures (48 total) and you should be set.

 

[MikePetro]

What sort of overall color are you looking for in the tank? You said "African" so I'm wondering if this is a FW cichlid tank? If so, I'd imagine you'll want a warmer color than most reef tanks. You might be able to get away with all cool white XP-Gs. If you're interested in building a test fixture, you might want to start with 12 XP-Gs and plan for it to cover 2' of your tank's length, i.e. with an ultimate goal of having 36 LEDs. That'll be on the low end of what's reasonable, so if you find that 12 LEDs provides poor coverage for a third of your tank, just bump it up to four 12-LED fixtures (48 total) and you should be set.

Yes, it is an FW African Chiclid tank, mostly Peacocks and Haps from Lake Malawi and Lake Victoria. Heavily populated with rocks and African root type driftwood.

I am looking for the blue side of daylight, ie 7500k - 10000k as it highlights the blue opalescence in the fish. Tossing in a few blue LEDS at maybe a 1/5 ratio has a certain appeal for both overall color and possible moonlighting ambiance. Not sure I would want the Royal Blue, probably just the 465-485nm Blue, I will order one of each to test.

I will build a prototype heatsink measuring 8" x 14" simply because I have a bunch of these. I will order an assortment of optics, and an assortment emitters, can you recommend a versatile 120vac driver that would allow me to play with various configs? I have lots of 24vdc power supplies but the current regulation on them isnt hitting on much.

Thanks again,

Mike

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I'd skip the optics unless you really just want to play. In a lower output rig with a small LED count, optics will just make spotlighting worse.

The Meanwell ELN-60-48 is probably the best all around choice for experiments with a driver that can run straight off 120v AC but it's also the most complicated (requires internal trimpot adjustment, requires a dimming signal).

Mixing in a few blues certainly wouldn't hurt! The plain "Blue" crees produce a pretty nice sky blue color.

 

[MontyJack]

I have ten ELN 60-48D to dim. Will one of these units work and then hook top profilux?

You can control up to 30 ELN drivers on one of this units.

 

[LHHFMF]

My LEDs and Optics have finally arrived from ETG. Here is my my invoice says:

XPG Cool Whites on star - 1BR5
XPE Roy on star - D315

Could someone familiar with the bin numbers tell me if I received the proper lights?

Thank you

 

[skippyreef]

You can control up to 30 ELN drivers on one of this units.

Where were you able to purchase one and r u using it on tandem with a profilux controller? Could you put up a pic of the set up please?

Mike

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

My LEDs and Optics have finally arrived from ETG. Here is my my invoice says:

XPG Cool Whites on star - 1BR5
XPE Roy on star - D315

Could someone familiar with the bin numbers tell me if I received the proper lights?

Thank you

Dunno what you thought you were getting but those are all acceptable/desireable bins.

 

[Taqpol]

For anyone interested that has not seen it yet, I started my own build thread about a 24 LED RapidLED kit prototype I built to test out colors and PAR numbers for my upcoming system. I do have lots of PAR numbers and pictures throughout the thread, but with the help of a lot of the DIY LED gurus on this site it has turned into a lot of information about the intensity and spread of the different optics we can use. Check it out!

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1826521

The same thread also got nominated for ThOTM. All of the threads are really good this month, and it is extremely close, so I would encourage everyone to vote!

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1843660

 

[MontyJack]

Where were you able to purchase one and r u using it on tandem with a profilux controller? Could you put up a pic of the set up please?

Mike

I purchased it in Germany because there it is cheaper than in my country and I hooked it up to the ProfiLux EVG-AP diming contacts and then to the drivers. Like this diagram:

 

[skippyreef]

COuld I use it with the LBF-AP?

I have profilux II plus. Is the EVG ap already on board standard or would I have to purchase it? Do you install inside of Profilux Unit?

 

[The Grim Reefer]

I dunno what happened. I soldered everything up, hooked up the driver and hit the power and my first channel of LED's lit up. No smoke, no fire, no smell of ozone. I guess my soldering skills don't suck as bad as I thought

My 3" spaced LED's in a single row 28 inches above the sensor did PAR of 16. It's 10 RB's and 2 Warm Whites. I may need to try optics but I will slap another rail together and see what 2 of them do. I got PAR of 26 with a single Blue Plus T5 in a good reflector at this height so we'll see. The spread for the max par is about 4 1/2 inches front to back which is pretty much what I was looking for.

After about 20 minutes of run time the back side of the heat sink was about 92 degrees and the edge of the LED dye was 94 so I think the heat sink is doing it job. More fun to come.

 

[stugray]

Holy COW:

http://led-professional.com/products/25/1429-ledengin-introduces-white-40w-led-light-source.html

If we could get optics & some really tall hoods, we would only need a handful of these and a bunch of blues ;-)

Stu