DIY LEDs - The write-up

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DWIZM, do you think you could show us what you have planned for your DIY drivers? That is the route I'm considering and would love to compare notes.

I have finished drivers out in the real world that have 4 or 5 months of run time on them based on the NCP3066 chip from OnSemi. This is a constant current switching DC-DC regulator with an enable pin that can be used for PWM dimming, or if you want analog dimming you can have that via modifying the voltage at the sense resistor pin.

It's basically the boost topology example circuit from the datasheet, with components selected (by their formulas and some trial and error) to get the performance I wanted. I have zero documentation at this point though, but I'm in the process of fixing that; hopefully I can post something in the next week or so.

These drivers can run 8 LEDs on a 24v source, with PWM dimming. In theory it's more efficient than buckpucks or meanwells claim to be, but I don't have the tools to actually measure that (just going on OnSemi's claims vs. claims from the other vendors).

The design is all through-hole, so it's "easy" for a beginner to solder, and it can be made on a $.75 protoboard from radio shack. Cost for the entire driver is probably $6 or $7 each. It's around 8 or 10 components.

I'm looking at some other options right now, but this NCP3066 driver is pretty solid. If you don't need the dimming control and/or aren't an efficiency freak like me, there are probably slightly cheaper/easier ways to drive LEDs (LM317 in constant current mode, any of the various linear constant current chips aimed at HP LEDs, or even just big resistors like kcress documented in his recent LED thread.)
 
LED recomendations

LED recomendations

I have been lurking and reading but now I need a recomendation for how many LED for my 24 x 24 cube. I was not planning on using any optics so I was thinking about 80 LED's (Royal blue & white) but now I'm down to 54 LEDs since I read something about 2.0 inch spacing.

Thanks

David
 
I have been lurking and reading but now I need a recomendation for how many LED for my 24 x 24 cube. I was not planning on using any optics so I was thinking about 80 LED's (Royal blue & white) but now I'm down to 54 LEDs since I read something about 2.0 inch spacing.

Thanks

David

How deep and what livestock?

80 would be a TON on a 24 x 24 tank. The "average" build densities would put you in the 30 - 50 range, depending on depth, livestock plans, drive current, etc.
 
Is there anyplace to get a quick basic rundown of exactly what one needs to build an LED Fixture? It's tough to compile all of the info from this massive thread lol.

I have a 180 Gallon 6 x 2 x 2.

What kind of cost am I looking at for LED Supplies for this tank. It would be a mixed reef, mostly SPS though.


The fixture I have now is (3) 250 WATT HQI Halides. My fixture had crappy PC Actinics though. I ripped those out. Now if building an entire LED System is too expensive....

What would you recommend for just actinic supplementation for my tank?
 
Is there anyplace to get a quick basic rundown of exactly what one needs to build an LED Fixture?

Nope. :lol:

It's pretty straightforward though. You need:

1) LEDs themselves. Cree XR-E Q5 cool white and blue or royal blue, somewhere near a 50/50 mix. If you can get the new XP-G LEDs for the cool whites, all the better. Or, Luxeon Rebels are almost as good, but have a slightly wider field of view. Don't use any other LEDs without understanding the implications of efficiency, etc.

2) Something to bolt them to. Typically, people are using MASSIVE extruded heatsinks. Unless you have a very high density, a very high drive current, and little or no airflow, it's probably overkill.

3) Something to cool them. See #2, plus a PC fan per every foot of tank (I'm making this up!) to provide air movement.

4) Something to drive them. The easiest thing to do is get an off-the-shelf constant current driver at an appropriate drive current (buckpucks or meanwells are the most popular). If you use a driver that requires a 120v AC power source, you can plug it into your wall. If you use one that requires a DC source, you'll need a DC power supply.

Once you've chosen components, you need to do some math:

First, determine an overall intensity you want. This will help you pick LED count and drive current. Most people are driving at 700mA or 1000mA, IMHO this is borderline too high for these rigs, unless you have a tall tank, and/or are using pretty wide spacing. My preference would be for 500mA for short tanks or 700mA for tall tanks. For spacing, figure 10 - 20 square inches per LED. Near the 10 range for more intensity or a deeper tank. For a 6 x 2 foot tank (your 180), this means 100 - 170 LEDs, roughly. In your case, replacing 250w MH, I'd probably go with ~140 and drive them at 700mA, with a dimmable driver so I could turn them down if they were too intense. Or maybe just a 500mA driver.

Now, you can start to estimate cost. Most of these fixtures are costing people around $8 - $10 per LED (probably a little less than that if you're careful, but we're trying to be conservative here.) So if you did 140 LEDs, you can plan on $1200 - $1400 or so.

That sounds like a crapload of money I'm sure, but consider that you'll have NO lamp replacement costs (at least for 10 years - and at that point you can just drive them a little higher to get the lost intensity back). Also, this fixture will use around 250w of power, and will be replacing your three 250w MH (which probably burn around 800 - 900w: most 250w ballasts consume more than 250w.) So, you're saving ~600w of power. If your lights are on 10 hours a day, that's 6kWh per day. If power costs 15 cents per kWh, that's around $30/month.

If you figure you're replacing those three MH lamps once a year and they cost $75 each, that's $225/year savings on lamps, and $360/year savings on electricity. $585/year savings total. So the LED fixture will have paid for itself in just over two years. After that point, it's all gravy. If you figure your tank will run for 10 years, the total cost for the LED system will be around $4,600 LESS than the MH system.


What would you recommend for just actinic supplementation for my tank?

Some fraction of the above, but with all blue or royal blue LEDs. If you want to try and guess an "equivalent" supplementation compared to what you'd try to do for T5 or PC, pretend like the LEDs will need ~40% the wattage. So if you would typically put 100w of T5 on the tank for supplementation, build an LED fixture with 40w of LED. If you drive at 700mA, that's probably around 15 LEDs. It'll be hard to space 15 LEDs evenly on a 6' tank, so you might want to plan for 20 or 30 and drive them lower (500mA or even 350mA.)
 
Thanks so much for the reply.

Are there any preferred web sites you guys use to purchase your materials (LEDS and Drivers Specifically).

If that's against the UA you can just PM me the links.


Thanks again. I was pleasantly surprised that I did not have to be an electrical engineer to understand 99% of that lol.
 
Hey, I'd never even pretend to be an EE and I'm soldering my own drivers and microcontrollers for these projects. It's really pretty straightforward stuff. :)

Dealextreme has the best price on cool white Q5 XR-E (like $4.36 or something in bulk). ETG has good prices on LEDs and drivers, but you have to call, there's no online ordering. Some of the websites aimed at nano tuning have OK prices. ledsupply.com and rapidled.com have this stuff too, but generally more expensive.

Most people use the gigantic heatsinks from heatsinkusa.com but I'm probably just going to make my own from alum. stock from now on.
 
Nope. :lol:

It's pretty straightforward though. You need:

1) LEDs themselves. Cree XR-E Q5 cool white and blue or royal blue, somewhere near a 50/50 mix. If you can get the new XP-G LEDs for the cool whites, all the better. Or, Luxeon Rebels are almost as good, but have a slightly wider field of view. Don't use any other LEDs without understanding the implications of efficiency, etc.

2) Something to bolt them to. Typically, people are using MASSIVE extruded heatsinks. Unless you have a very high density, a very high drive current, and little or no airflow, it's probably overkill.

3) Something to cool them. See #2, plus a PC fan per every foot of tank (I'm making this up!) to provide air movement.

4) Something to drive them. The easiest thing to do is get an off-the-shelf constant current driver at an appropriate drive current (buckpucks or meanwells are the most popular). If you use a driver that requires a 120v AC power source, you can plug it into your wall. If you use one that requires a DC source, you'll need a DC power supply.

Once you've chosen components, you need to do some math:

First, determine an overall intensity you want. This will help you pick LED count and drive current. Most people are driving at 700mA or 1000mA, IMHO this is borderline too high for these rigs, unless you have a tall tank, and/or are using pretty wide spacing. My preference would be for 500mA for short tanks or 700mA for tall tanks. For spacing, figure 10 - 20 square inches per LED. Near the 10 range for more intensity or a deeper tank. For a 6 x 2 foot tank (your 180), this means 100 - 170 LEDs, roughly. In your case, replacing 250w MH, I'd probably go with ~140 and drive them at 700mA, with a dimmable driver so I could turn them down if they were too intense. Or maybe just a 500mA driver.

Now, you can start to estimate cost. Most of these fixtures are costing people around $8 - $10 per LED (probably a little less than that if you're careful, but we're trying to be conservative here.) So if you did 140 LEDs, you can plan on $1200 - $1400 or so.

That sounds like a crapload of money I'm sure, but consider that you'll have NO lamp replacement costs (at least for 10 years - and at that point you can just drive them a little higher to get the lost intensity back). Also, this fixture will use around 250w of power, and will be replacing your three 250w MH (which probably burn around 800 - 900w: most 250w ballasts consume more than 250w.) So, you're saving ~600w of power. If your lights are on 10 hours a day, that's 6kWh per day. If power costs 15 cents per kWh, that's around $30/month.

If you figure you're replacing those three MH lamps once a year and they cost $75 each, that's $225/year savings on lamps, and $360/year savings on electricity. $585/year savings total. So the LED fixture will have paid for itself in just over two years. After that point, it's all gravy. If you figure your tank will run for 10 years, the total cost for the LED system will be around $4,600 LESS than the MH system.




Some fraction of the above, but with all blue or royal blue LEDs. If you want to try and guess an "equivalent" supplementation compared to what you'd try to do for T5 or PC, pretend like the LEDs will need ~40% the wattage. So if you would typically put 100w of T5 on the tank for supplementation, build an LED fixture with 40w of LED. If you drive at 700mA, that's probably around 15 LEDs. It'll be hard to space 15 LEDs evenly on a 6' tank, so you might want to plan for 20 or 30 and drive them lower (500mA or even 350mA.)
What size heatsink will be needed for the 180 tank?
 
Hmm. 1 more question as I'm looking at LEDsupply.com

Let's say I'm just wiring up 1 of these LED's for a moonlight. Overkill more than likely.... but just bare with me lol.


You have 1 of these:
Medium_WM.jpg

Royal Blue Cree® XR-E Star (1000mA MAX Drive)

Then you need the driver:
03023-D-E-1000_Medium_WM.jpg

3023 Wired BuckPuck (1000mA Constant Current Output, Non-Dimming )


Now I need a power supply..... does that wire in to the BuckPuck? Does the power supply need to be grounded (3 prong)? Will any power supply work, assuming I don't need a grounded supply (ie. old cell phone charger)?
 
If you're doing a moonlight with a single Cree XR-E on a 6' tank, it's gonna look like a spotlight at one point in the tank and dark everywhere else. Light from LEDs is very directional and laminar, even without optics. A better choice would be a Luxeon Rebel, since it has a wider field of view (i.e. the light is spread out a little more.) You might also want to put some sort of diffuser in front of it to spread it out more.

I don't think a single HP LED would be overkill for a moonlight, and will have something similar on my big tank.

For the driver though, a buckpuck IS overkill for a single LED. It's expensive and will have a ton of overhead. I'd only go that route if you planned on later reusing the buckpuck as part of your DT lighting or something.

There are a ton of drivers out there made for just one or two of these LEDs, you just have to look elsewhere. Dealextreme has a bunch, and cutter (in Australia) does, too. Or you could DIY one easily from an LM317 or even just a big fat resistor, if you picked your power supply carefully.

Which gets to your other question - the buckpuck, or any other driver requiring DC input, will need a DC power supply to run correctly. To determine the specs on the power supply, you need to know the ideal voltage the driver wants for the load you're putting on it. In most cases, this is expressed as a function of the forward voltages of the LEDs. For instance, the buckpucks want 2v more than the sum of the forward voltages of your LEDs. If your LED drops 3.5v, you'll need 5.5v DC supplied to the buckpuck (which exposes another reason to not use buckpucks in a single-LED application - they have a huge overhead, which means crappy efficiency unless they're loaded to the limit).

Grounded vs. ungrounded is something I'll let the EE's battle over (look back a few pages. :lol:) but once you know the voltage required, you need to make sure the PS can supply enough current. Most are rated with a max current. I'd try to stay under 70 - 80% of that. So if you're driving at 700mA, you'll want to look for a PS that can supply 1A of current, minimum.

The favorite source for power supplies is eBay, or mpja.com - they have a lot of nice cheap supplies.
 
Oh, and this is definitely a personal thing, but I'm not a fan of blue moonlights over tanks. The spectrum of real moonlight on natural reefs is pretty close to daylight, so that's what I aim for with moonlights. Of course, it's really up to whatever look you want on your tank.
 
Yeah the moonlights are actually for a separate tank.

I can buy a pre wired 1 watt unit for $60 from the LFS. It's obviously much cheaper to just wired my own though.


This moonlight would be on a 90 Gallon Reef.
 
Cheaper, plus for OCD control freaks like me, it ends up EXACTLY the way you want it with respect to intensity, color, spread, angle, etc. and you can easily run it on a controller to simulate moon phases if you'd like - vs. most reasonably-priced commercial moonlights which have no controllability.

Same can be said for fullsize fixtures over display tanks. The "average" commercial unit built with "correct" components is around $20/LED, meanwhile DIYers are doing it for under $10/LED.
 
Does anyone notices their LEDs to stay On even when they're supposed to be Off? I have my two ELN60-48 connected to the timer and when they turn Off you can see them still On. Very very little or dimmed. Doesn't even work as moonlights though. First I though it was some leftover charge that will turn off after a few minutes but they still On all night. I even have a On/Off switch in case I want to independently turn on/off each color and with the switch in Off they still On. Any idea whats happening?
 
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