DIY LEDs - The write-up

[widmer]

Either warm white or three reds for every blue.

Anyone ever tried this? Any link for good reds?

 

[kcress]

Hi widmer. Algae likes it warm, warm-white that is. Often people use sodium HID lights in their sumps. I have used the red/blue above and had great results. If you look at photosynthesis charts you will see to peaks. One red and one blue. The red seems to be needed in greater quantity in my experiments.

 

[james3370]

Anyone ever tried this? Any link for good reds?

ledsupply.com has red leds

Hi widmer. Algae likes it warm, warm-white that is. Often people use sodium HID lights in their sumps. I have used the red/blue above and had great results. If you look at photosynthesis charts you will see to peaks. One red and one blue. The red seems to be needed in greater quantity in my experiments.

i was just gonna say that you had used them

 

[MontyJack]

Thanks for the reply! I got confirmed what I was thinking earlier. So I'll go with warm white only. I hope that will be right. Just now I need suggestions on how much LEDs I need for a 15g algae section in the sump? It is 24x12x12 inch.
Thanks
Monty

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I'd probably use 6 and drive them low (350mA). Get a dimmable driver so you can adjust intensity. Not many people have grown algae with these so it's not clear exactly how much LED light is equivalent to the typical methods for growing algae.

 

[widmer]

Hi widmer. Algae likes it warm, warm-white that is. Often people use sodium HID lights in their sumps. I have used the red/blue above and had great results. If you look at photosynthesis charts you will see to peaks. One red and one blue. The red seems to be needed in greater quantity in my experiments.

Thanks for the reply. I'm familiar with photosynthetic curves. And I'm somewhat aware as well that marine algaes may contain other photosynthetic pigments such as phycobilins etc that take advantage of different colors of light. It makes me wonder if only a red/blue mix really is best. I guess that would depend on the algae you are trying to grow...

Have you got any pictures of your red/blue apparatus?

 

[Altpers0na]

:lol:

 

[mm95z71]

KCRESS- I do not see any light bars in my tank. I am not using optics though. I just didn't think I would need them in such a shallow tank. When I upgrade to a 90+ I will look into using them.

I had trouble with one of my posts so here is the details on my LED fixture.

30- CREE XR-E Q5
30- CREE XR-E royal blue
10- 3023-D-N buckpuck
2- 24V@8.3A power supply
1- 8.5" X 48" heat sink
2- 120mm fans
1- aluminum project box
3M thermal adhesive, VHB tape, various supplies, wire, cords, solder, etc.

 

[L98-Z]

What are the downsides to using these?

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2394

At $4.36 a piece, sounds too cheap.

 

[mm95z71]

More Pics

More Pics

I wanted to try mounting my power supplies to the top of the heat sink to make it a one piece unit. Temp hovers around 95 F with top open and 107 F with top closed. Next step it to cut some vent holes in my hood to allow more cold air in. I might relocate the power supplies too.

 

[mm95z71]

What are the downsides to using these?

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2394

At $4.36 a piece, sounds too cheap.

These are the same as what I used but I got mine at www.Ledlightingsupply.com. They were $5.74 each for the Q5s and $5.98 for royal blue. They came out of Georgia and were really fast. Plus I could actually talk to someone. I almost ordered from this place but heard some bad stuff about them. Long lead times. I think it was worth the extra $1.40 or $42 total.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Woah, DX has dropped prices in the last few months!

When shopping for these components, just make sure you're getting the right bins. Q5 brightness, and a color bin that's not too far from the middle of the range. That DX part linked above is WG color bin, which is a little borderline (it'll be a hair green, but still probably fine) - but some of their other "cool white" LEDs have been in pretty extreme color bins and I wouldn't wanna touch them. WC or WB would be ideal.

 

[kcress]

Thanks for the reply! I got confirmed what I was thinking earlier. So I'll go with warm white only. I hope that will be right. Just now I need suggestions on how much LEDs I need for a 15g algae section in the sump? It is 24x12x12 inch.
Thanks
Monty

I think dur-willie's 6 is maybe too low. Your 24" x 12" area is actually quite large. For your setup I'd get 12 RED and 6 BLUE and make sure you arrange them to mix as best as you can.


Widmer:http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=98&start=70

mm95z71; Thanks I couldn't see any in your picture but it seemed like it could happen. Guess not.

 

[MontyJack]

I think dur-willie's 6 is maybe too low. Your 24" x 12" area is actually quite large. For your setup I'd get 12 RED and 6 BLUE and make sure you arrange them to mix as best as you can.

Hi,
So you think that the peak in blue and red is not high enough in the warm white’s? You are mentioning red’s, but which ones? Which wave length? Can you give me any recommends how my setup shut look like in detail? I mean how you would build it in my case?

This is a question for all of you, which are so kind to share those information’s. The reason I’m asking all this is, that while I running my whole Reef on LED why wasting energy in the sump?!

Thanks Monty

 

[widmer]

It makes perfect sense to have the sump lit by LED. If nothing else, it at least saves a lot of space. But then it does keep very high voltage a little further from your water as well. So I have been also been tossing around plans to build a little LED array for the sump, but the question is, which LED's to get?

Anyone remember Melev's experiment with the compact fluoros? He found that the daylight spectrum cfls caused MUCH more growth for his chaeto than the warm white did, even though the mantra is that warm white causes algae to grow lots. So it's really tough to say, and it's an annoying prospect to gamble ~$50 worth of LEDs on experimenting with it...

 

[sammy113]

my fuge will be lit by LEDs. Heres my soon to be fuge. Still have no chaeto though. I just had this 3 leds laying around. I know chaeto won't probably use blue light but I had it so why not use it. Maybe it can kick a little more the whites.

 

[kcress]

So you think that the peak in blue and red is not high enough in the warm white's? You are mentioning red's, but which ones? Which wave length? Can you give me any recommends how my setup shut look like in detail? I mean how you would build it in my case?

I'm not saying don't use warm whites! It's just that white by definition has purple, green, yellow, and orange in it which algae particularly don't use. If you are all out for efficiency I'd think you'd just want to provide the pertinent colors.

Here's the map:

This map shows the various 'whites'.

I used just blue and red that were fairly well centered on the two peaks and the algae I grew liked it. It liked it a whole lot more when there was a whole lot more red than blue.

Which ones you actually pick are up to you and your available suppliers. Just try to center your candidate LEDs on the two humps. If you miss by a little I doubt it will make a huge difference.

As for a lay up.. Maybe check the Budget LED Build thread as this would certainly be a case of not needing daily dimming.

widmer; As for the Melev's results it could be that what he was cultivating liked more blue. It could be that his bulbs where not the same brightness. Remember the human perceived brightness is very poor. His test lights could have had %50 brightness difference that he wouldn't even detect but the algae machinery might have. So his daylight bulbs could've been %50 brighter and that made the real distance. Did he do any power measurements? Could also be the different algae we have prefers different weighting. It comes down to lighting the algae you want to grow and seeing if it thrives under your light.

The main points I would reach for LEDs to light algae are:

1) If you use CFL you need to replace them every three months. This is because they will have dropped dramatically in brightness even though a human looking at them wouldn't think so. LEDs dim much more slowly especially if they're not run really hot.

2) LEDs can be lower profile.

3) They are more efficient in sending the light in one direction.

4) You can tailor the spectrum somewhat.

5) They're cooler! In more ways than one. :artist:

 

[widmer]

1) If you use CFL you need to replace them every three months. This is because they will have dropped dramatically in brightness even though a human looking at them wouldn't think so. LEDs dim much more slowly especially if they're not run really hot.

Every 3 months? This is news to me. I thought by the end of their few-years-long lifespan their lumen maintenance is still at like 2/3. Have you got a reference?

 

[kcress]

widmer!! You and your reference requests.. :spin2: :uzi: :fun2:

I spend 30 minutes pecking out an answer then next time I look I have to spend an hour hunting down a reference..:fun5:

If you look at the box your CFLs come in that's typically their stated life! You know, "10*** years!" (***5 minutes a day - base down)

They certainly lose output brightness in three months of running every day for 18 hrs. (That is the ones that don't fail utterly). And for the umpteenth time if you can see any difference in brightness then a large actual change HAS occurred.

But mostly the TScrubber gang has found growth drops after 3 months with the same bulbs.:beer:

 

[widmer]

widmer!! You and your reference requests.. :spin2: :uzi: :fun2:

I spend 30 minutes pecking out an answer then next time I look I have to spend an hour hunting down a reference..:fun5:

If you look at the box your CFLs come in that's typically their stated life! You know, "10*** years!" (***5 minutes a day - base down)

They certainly lose output brightness in three months of running every day for 18 hrs. (That is the ones that don't fail utterly). And for the umpteenth time if you can see any difference in brightness then a large actual change HAS occurred.

But mostly the TScrubber gang has found growth drops after 3 months with the same bulbs.:beer:

Lol do you remember me from my epic thread where someone boldly stated that having a starphire aquarium means ur wreaking havoc on the environment? Maybe you can notice a trend then, that when I hear a wild claim that may cause a thousand reefers to second-guess themselves ie "Oh wow my fuge light has been in for like 5 months I'm way late changing it?", I ask for a reference.

So since you haven't got one, I just went to google and typed in "CFL lumen maintenance". I then clicked on the first link, and found

"ENERGY STAR rated CFL lumen maintenance must be greater than 90.0% of initial (100-hour) lumen output @ 1,000 hours of rated life and greater than 80.0% of initial lumen output at 40% of rated life (e.g., @ 4,000 hours for a 10,000 hour CFL)." ( http://dremc.com/CFL_FAQ.htm )

This translates to at least 80% of the bulb's original output at the 11+ month mark, assuming a 12 on/12 off photoperiod, or 7.4 months at a 18 on/6 off photoperiod. Of course lumens are a different measurement than PAR, because the average consumer could care less about PAR. However, I'm guessing it is safe to say that luminosity degradation is somewhat the same as PAR-producing chromophore degradation.

...And it's probably even safer to say that the red (preferred for algae) aspect of the PAR drops off at a slower rate than the blue (less preferred for algae) aspect of the PAR drops off, therefore skewing the Energy Star rating so that the loss in PAR as far as algae is concerned is in fact even lower.

Moral of the story, I'm not jumping to change my CFL light that's been in there for the past half year. But I would like to eventually replace it with LEDs. :love2::love1: Skepticism is healthy here and there.