DIY LEDs - The write-up

[Santoki]

thanks DWZM.
Amano was definately one of my inspirations...
It really is exciting to think of the possibilities..
If only everyone were to start building their own!
I think the Japanese may start running with LEDs very soon..
-R

 

[widmer]

u guys peep this yet?

http://smgsllc.com/turnkeylights.html

They seem to be exactly what a lot of reefers here are building, except they're using rebels. I thought PFO got shut down for building these though...

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

u guys peep this yet?

http://smgsllc.com/turnkeylights.html

They seem to be exactly what a lot of reefers here are building, except they're using rebels. I thought PFO got shut down for building these though...

Those look nice, but of course it's more expensive than materials to build your own.

I'm not an expert on the subject, but my understanding is that the lawsuit against PFO was extremely specific in terms of certain features, not the concept of LED lighting for reefs as a whole - if that had been the case, there'd be dozens and dozens of other vendors in violation - even places like Marine Depot have been carrying all sorts of LED products for years.

It's interesting that many of the commercial fixtures have used Rebels. I bet now that Cree has competing products (in terms of emitter size vs. efficiency and cost) we'll see a swing the other way. I'm pretty sure that AI is producing units with XP-Gs, or will be soon.

 

[mm95z71]

Buckpuck failure

Buckpuck failure

Anyone have a buckpuck fail? I had one fail the other day on my LED array. It was powering 6 CREE XR-E royal blue LEDs. The one concern I have is that the 6 LEDs span the 48" width of my array. I have one wire that is about 40" long that connect the series of LEDs. I'm not sure if this is a problem. Let me know if you have any experience with this. I also checked the temp in the box where the buckpucks are located. The temp read 140 F. I checked the data sheet and they are good to 185 F. I have taken the cover off the Radio Shack project box to cool everything down.

Ledsupply.com has asked me to send it back and have been very responsive. I will let you all know what I find out.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Anyone have a buckpuck fail?

I haven't, but have seen reports of a few other failures. In those cases it was something obvious - like running 8 LEDs per string.

The one concern I have is that the 6 LEDs span the 48" width of my array. I have one wire that is about 40" long that connect the series of LEDs. I'm not sure if this is a problem.

I'm not sure if that would be a problem. I'm sure keeping runs short is nice, but if it was that critical I bet it would be in the datasheet (see the note there about input wire length, for example).

The temp read 140 F. I checked the data sheet and they are good to 185 F. I have taken the cover off the Radio Shack project box to cool everything down.

Might be within spec but it strikes me as really hot! what else is in that box? How is the 185 deg. F spec stated in the spec? Even if the ambient temp in the box was 140, the temp of the ICs inside the buckpucks might have been much higher.

 

[DFason]

I am looking into building two DIY pendants. I am looking for the same look that I have with my T5's, a Radium/Phoenix look.

My new tank will be 30x22x17 and I will be using the same rock as my current tank. I have two small islands that are only around 12" each. I think "spotlighting" with DIY pendants would look great but also look more natural.

I was thinking 12-15 each pendant with a mix of white and blues. Just need a little help in the right direction

Here's a picture of the current tank to help with how the islands look.

Thanks in advance!

-Dave

 

[mm95z71]

I haven't, but have seen reports of a few other failures. In those cases it was something obvious - like running 8 LEDs per string.



I'm not sure if that would be a problem. I'm sure keeping runs short is nice, but if it was that critical I bet it would be in the datasheet (see the note there about input wire length, for example).


Might be within spec but it strikes me as really hot! what else is in that box? How is the 185 deg. F spec stated in the spec? Even if the ambient temp in the box was 140, the temp of the ICs inside the buckpucks might have been much higher.

Yea. I saw the 18" limit on the input wires but nothing on the output. If I blow a second one I will try something different like adding a buckpuck and running 3 on each. This will shorten the longest wire to about 15".

Spec states operating temp -40c - +85c. They are the only thing in the project box but they are crammed in there. 10 of them. Plus I hot melt glued them in there. Didn't think heat was an issue or I would have used termal adhesive and a heat sink.

Other than this problem the array is working great. Only corals that don't seem to be adjusting is red mushrooms. Might be a little bright for them. I have 30 Q5s and 30 royal blues. They need sunglasses I guess.

 

[mm95z71]

I am looking into building two DIY pendants. I am looking for the same look that I have with my T5's, a Radium/Phoenix look.

My new tank will be 30x22x17 and I will be using the same rock as my current tank. I have two small islands that are only around 12" each. I think "spotlighting" with DIY pendants would look great but also look more natural.

I was thinking 12-15 each pendant with a mix of white and blues. Just need a little help in the right direction

Here's a picture of the current tank to help with how the islands look.

Thanks in advance!

-Dave

I have 30 Q5s and 30 royal blues in my 55. 48" width. I might do 18 each pendant just for even numbers. 6 per buckpuck. Of course you might not use those. See what others say. Good luck.

 

[shouldabenacowboy]

Anyone have a buckpuck fail?

I had one fail on my setup.. simmilar setup as yours. LEDSUPPLY sent a replacement and exchanged it with no isssues..

SBC

 

[mm95z71]

I had one fail on my setup.. simmilar setup as yours. LEDSUPPLY sent a replacement and exchanged it with no isssues..

SBC

Any problems since? Do you have a long wire connecting the series as I do? Thanks for the help.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I might do 18 each pendant just for even numbers. 6 per buckpuck. Of course you might not use those. See what others say. Good luck.

Sounds about right. Maybe play with some optics depending on how tight you want the spotlighting to be. 17" isn't that deep so 700mA should be plenty. Maybe even 500mA or less.

 

[widmer]

Yea. I saw the 18" limit on the input wires but nothing on the output. If I blow a second one I will try something different like adding a buckpuck and running 3 on each. This will shorten the longest wire to about 15".

Wow I didn't notice the 18" limit before, so I just dug up the datasheet and it says:

"Where DC input units are located more than 18" from the source, a 220 uF, 50V capacitor should be placed across the input terminals as shown in Figure 17."

I wonder what the problem would be if my power supply were a little further, say 12 feet, as I have been planning? And I wonder if Radioshack would have these on hand or if I can only order online...

 

[DFason]

Sounds about right. Maybe play with some optics depending on how tight you want the spotlighting to be. 17" isn't that deep so 700mA should be plenty. Maybe even 500mA or less.

Thanks for the help from both of you. What type of whites and blues do you recommend for a radium look? Also for the heatsink, would a 10"x5-6" work? With my tank being shallow I was thinking 40 or 60 degree optics.

-Dave

 

[harleyreefer]

How about a little bigger?

How about a little bigger?

Wow, great read...
Thanks for turning my brain to mush people... Spent a few days reading over the thread, and got through most of it, except a few pages in the middle of the second split. Needing a new light setup, but had about given up on LED's until I found this build thread. After reading the first post of this thread, I realized that it would be possible to do at home. After reading the other 120 pages of the thread, I seem to have more questions the more I read.
Tank currently has 2x 400w MH's and a pair of 60"vho for atinics. Heat is a major complaint of course, and the electric bill sucks as well, as Im sure you can imagine. Besides, it was originally used for a 60" tank (that I now use as a sump). Anyway, its time for an upgrade. Been planning on ditching this rig for a while, and one of the MH bulbs blew out, and I am not going to replace that again. For the interm, I am getting a 72" constilation, instead of the pair of 10x39w ATI powermodules. I am thinking about sinking the difference in price on this little project. Will take a while to do, so I have to get the constilation for now, but this could be an interesting project...
. Tank is 84"x24"x24", so just a quick figgure at around 15 sq " of aria, considerig keeping the led's in mutiples of 6, comes out to 3 banks of 48 lights each (8 strings of 6 each per bank, correct?). 144 led's total. 84 x 24=2016 sq inches /144=14 sq inches per led.
at 6 per buck puck, I count 24 buck pucks, 8 per bank. Sooooo....some questions...
1) Will I need a big block chevy to power said set up? Am seriously hoping it wiill be less power hungry tha the MH/VHO rig I currently have running. Will have to check, but did I read its about 1 amp per string of 6? I dont have 24+amps to spare... (I will go back and find the relivent posts on that...)
2) What effect should I expect from my center brace up top? Its prett big, and covers about 24" of the top with 5/16 glass (think its 5/16) Should i figgure on more power to the center bank to compensate for the brace? Perhaps I could leave the acrilic sheid off the center bank, since its already covered with glass. Any idea how that thick of glass will deflect or block the light we are talking about?
3) Has anyone used the RKE controller with any of these setups? I have read of other controllers here, but I run my whole setup through my RKE, and would like to continue to do so if possible. It has a advanced light feature in it, and I believe it talks about dimmable, though I would have to dig out the manual again, (havent looked at it in mabie a year, sort of set it and forget it... been stable as a rock the whole time) I know the moon lights follow the phases of the moon, but I think you can set the main lights like that, if your lights dim.
.
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To be honest, I am early in my thinkng here, but since it will be quite an expensive project to do, I really dont know what my best course of action is for such a big tank. Since I will be getting a constilation for now, its not an urgent hurry, but I would like to give it a go. Would it be worth considering the 3 led stars that are offered?, and cut down on the number? I figgured to keep it close to the water, and probably would do without the optics. Are buck pucks even the best option on a build of this size? Would actually like to have 2 cords, one for blue and one for white (oh yea, half and half on those)
.
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Ill be going back and re-reading the posts on some of the bigger tanks I saw here, and the whole thing actually, but I thought I would ask about what kind of ideas might be floating out there as to the best direction I should think about taking... I know this is an expensive proposition, but have you seen the prices of commercial rigs that I would have to consider? ( I know you have a good idia about that!..lol) Suddenly a couple grand for a led light system for a tank this size dosent seem all that bad. Even a pair of 36 inch, 10 bulb powermodules are well over 2 grand...
Anyway, thanks for the patient reading, and what an awsome thread, even though I went blind reading it all!

Jeff

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Thanks for the help from both of you. What type of whites and blues do you recommend for a radium look?

You mean the Radium 20k? I'd probably do 40% XR-E Q5 cool white, 50% XR-E Royal Blue, and 10% XR-E Blue.

Also for the heatsink, would a 10"x5-6" work? With my tank being shallow I was thinking 40 or 60 degree optics.

I'd use two small heatsinks - one for each island of live rock. I'd try to go more "square" than the example you gave - like 8" x 8" if you could find it.

What's your hood like? If you have the room, put the fixtures up high and use 40's or even tighter, depending on how high. The higher the fixture and tighter the optics, the more pronounced the look will be.

 

[DFason]

Thanks for the help from both of you. What type of whites and blues do you recommend for a radium look?

You mean the Radium 20k? I'd probably do 40% XR-E Q5 cool white, 50% XR-E Royal Blue, and 10% XR-E Blue.



I'd use two small heatsinks - one for each island of live rock. I'd try to go more "square" than the example you gave - like 8" x 8" if you could find it.

What's your hood like? If you have the room, put the fixtures up high and use 40's or even tighter, depending on how high. The higher the fixture and tighter the optics, the more pronounced the look will be.

No hood . So my possibilities are endless...

I've heard of the new XP-G's. Are these out to the public yet for DIY projects? If so where could I look for them? Heatsinkusa has 8.4x8 that I could easily trim down.

I would love to make it look like the new AI Module.

-Dave

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

. Tank is 84"x24"x24", so just a quick figgure at around 15 sq " of aria, considerig keeping the led's in mutiples of 6, comes out to 3 banks of 48 lights each (8 strings of 6 each per bank, correct?). 144 led's total. 84 x 24=2016 sq inches /144=14 sq inches per led.
at 6 per buck puck, I count 24 buck pucks, 8 per bank. Sooooo....some questions...

All sounds about right.

1) Will I need a big block chevy to power said set up? Am seriously hoping it wiill be less power hungry tha the MH/VHO rig I currently have running. Will have to check, but did I read its about 1 amp per string of 6? I dont have 24+amps to spare... (I will go back and find the relivent posts on that...)

You're sorta right - some of the drivers will pull 1A per string, but you have to factor voltage in to it - you can convert amps at the LEDs to amps used from the wall outlet.

I'd suggest a 700mA drive current. Realistically, this converts into about 18w per string of 6, or 3w consumed per LED. If you'll have 144 LEDs, then that's 432w of power. At 120v AC, that's around 3.6A. In other words, the ENTIRE rig will pull about what ONE 400w MH would. No worries on power consumption.

2) What effect should I expect from my center brace up top? Its prett big, and covers about 24" of the top with 5/16 glass (think its 5/16) Should i figgure on more power to the center bank to compensate for the brace? Perhaps I could leave the acrilic sheid off the center bank, since its already covered with glass. Any idea how that thick of glass will deflect or block the light we are talking about?

I wouldn't worry about it. Most people are putting a glass or acrylic splash shield in front of the LEDs anyways, so just don't use one on those LEDs. Or turn them up 10% if you want.

3) Has anyone used the RKE controller with any of these setups? I have read of other controllers here, but I run my whole setup through my RKE, and would like to continue to do so if possible. It has a advanced light feature in it, and I believe it talks about dimmable, though I would have to dig out the manual again, (havent looked at it in mabie a year, sort of set it and forget it... been stable as a rock the whole time) I know the moon lights follow the phases of the moon, but I think you can set the main lights like that, if your lights dim.

Look up the specs and tell us what it's capable of (PWM? 0-10v DC analog?) and we can tell you how to use that with a dimmable buckpuck. Perhaps this is obvious, but there are non dimmable versions of the buckpucks - make sure you don't get those.

To be honest, I am early in my thinkng here, but since it will be quite an expensive project to do, I really dont know what my best course of action is for such a big tank. Since I will be getting a constilation for now, its not an urgent hurry, but I would like to give it a go.

In your situation, I would consider getting 15 or 16 LEDs, two buckpucks, a 24v DC power supply, a small heatsink, and just play with different combinations of different colors, different optics, different drive currents, etc - make some test rigs. You can pretty much re-use 100% of the materials in your "real" build, and it'll give you hands on experience. It'll also help you decide how you want to build the big fixture, in terms of LED spacing, color mixing, etc.

Would it be worth considering the 3 led stars that are offered?

Personally, for a typical build on a large tank, I don't think the 3-up LEDs are worthwhile. It's a *lot* of light from a single point, which makes it hard to get even coverage. By the time you have enough to get even coverage, you'll have more light in the tank than you want. And if you cut the numbers back, you'll get blotchy coverage. The 3-up (and other super-intense LEDs) work great in certain situations though - trying to pack a lot of light over a small nano, trying to spotlight a specific rock structure, or if you had a really deep tank and needed all the output you could get your hands on.

I figgured to keep it close to the water, and probably would do without the optics.

I'd take the opposite approach. Bring it up 12 - 15" above the water and use 60 degree optics. It's like free energy for a tank as deep as yours.

Are buck pucks even the best option on a build of this size?

Depends on your criteria. Buckpucks require DC power supplies (typically 24v supplies.) Meanwells, the other major option, don't. It's more or less a personal preference thing.

Would actually like to have 2 cords, one for blue and one for white (oh yea, half and half on those)

You'll have 24 buckpucks. To include a safety margin, you should plan the DC power supplies you use to have about 1A per buckpuck you put on them. The most popular source for power supplies is mpja.com - they have an 6.4A 24v supply for like $15. You could comfortably put 6 buckpucks on each. That makes the math easy - you'd need 4 of these supplies. You could split up all the blues between two of them, and all the whites between the other two.

Suddenly a couple grand for a led light system for a tank this size dosent seem all that bad. Even a pair of 36 inch, 10 bulb powermodules are well over 2 grand...

Think about it from a lifetime cost of ownership perspective. The two 3' 10-lamp powermodules will consume around 7.6A at 120v (from the manufacturer's spec). That's 912w. If you run for 10h a day, that's 9kwh per day. At 12 cents a kwh (pretty cheap), that's $395 a year. If you replace the lamps in the ATI once a year, that's 20 lamps at $20 each every year, or $400. So the T5 rig would cost you ~$800/year.

The LED rig will only use 432w. At 10h/day, that's 4.3kwh/day. $190/year. No lamp costs.

So, the LED rig will save you around $600/year in operating costs. That's a lot of nice corals, every year. Pretty much for free, just because you chose LED instead of T5.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

No hood . So my possibilities are endless...

In that case, I'd go high, angled slightly, and tight optics.

I've heard of the new XP-G's. Are these out to the public yet for DIY projects? If so where could I look for them?

Yes, but expensive and/or hard to get. If you hurry, there's a group buy on a reef website dedicated to nano tanks that has them at the best price I've ever seen. Otherwise, they're probably $6 - $7 each depending on bin and mounting options. Cutter in Australia has them, and ETG in the US. But I'm guessing other retailers have them, too.

I would love to make it look like the new AI Module.

Go for it then. User Santoki has a really cool build, I linked to it a few pages back - he posted it in the regular reef forum on here. I'd check that out.

 

[DFason]

In that case, I'd go high, angled slightly, and tight optics.



Yes, but expensive and/or hard to get. If you hurry, there's a group buy on a reef website dedicated to nano tanks that has them at the best price I've ever seen. Otherwise, they're probably $6 - $7 each depending on bin and mounting options. Cutter in Australia has them, and ETG in the US. But I'm guessing other retailers have them, too.



Go for it then. User Santoki has a really cool build, I linked to it a few pages back - he posted it in the regular reef forum on here. I'd check that out.

Again thanks for all your input. I know of that site

How does this sound?
9 CREE XP-G CW (R4'S)
9 XP-E ROYAL BLUES

Or

7 CREE XP-G CW
7 XP-E ROYAL BLUES
4 XP-E Blues

40 degree optics and the 8x8 heatsink. Would you recommend using a buckpuck or meanwell? I would like to use a dimmable ballast.

-Dave

 

[Danielrvb]

Maybe I am just blind, but I am not seeing the good price on this top secret site.
Maybe you can talk more code to lead me to it.


XP-G is the white i a plan on using for my builds, I am hoping to be able to use a few less LEDs in white because of the their better performance. And really they seem fairly well price compared. (except against dx).

I am going to be doing builds for my tank, and my brothers. Mine being a 180 gallon, and my bros is 300. The plan is to start with sections to make the price spread out to be more affordable. My tank is 24" deep, and his 36". I really question how much density of the LEDs are needed to grow most SPS. As far as softies go, they seem to do fine as long as theres a glow, then LPS just a touch more needy.

The big concerns everyone has (besides heat, which I have allready discussed some what) is spotlighting, and having enough power for SPS. Now I plan on having SPS as well, but I have not seen a single build were people are having not enough light for SPS (most are the opposite) and also, I have not seen any builds with spotlighting.

Can anyone point me to a build that someone actually saw these issues? That will be one advantage of doing it in sections, is I can test with the first and If I feel I dont need as much, I can still put them to use. But I am just curious.