DIY Stands Template and Calculator

[moondoggy4]

Mikev15101 Heck of a first post Welcome to Reef Central

 

[importspeedman]

Anybody able to help me out with my question two posts above? Any help would be appreciated. I would like to make the stand without a center brace because I dont want to make a custom sump for the 12 inches I would have with a center brace.

 

[TheFishMan65]

Acrylic need extra bracing because the bottom is more flexible then glass. IIRC I have read that supporting it every 2 feet works. I would do the top frame from 2x8, but 2x6s might work. Have 2 (or 3) cross braces and make sure they are well connected to the front and rear beams. Then put a piece of 3/4 (1/2 maybe) on top to support the tank.

You don't need the extra cross bracing on the bottom frame. Add the four corners, and from the way I read the first this shoud allow for less than 1/8 of flex with no vertical center brace.

Sorry I can't be better with the wood sizes. Hope this is helps.

 

[importspeedman]

Acrylic need extra bracing because the bottom is more flexible then glass. IIRC I have read that supporting it every 2 feet works. I would do the top frame from 2x8, but 2x6s might work. Have 2 (or 3) cross braces and make sure they are well connected to the front and rear beams. Then put a piece of 3/4 (1/2 maybe) on top to support the tank.

You don't need the extra cross bracing on the bottom frame. Add the four corners, and from the way I read the first this shoud allow for less than 1/8 of flex with no vertical center brace.

Sorry I can't be better with the wood sizes. Hope this is helps.

Thank you Fishman, I am very happy I got your advice.
I have four 2x6 crossbracing in my top frame every 14 inchesISH (plus the two on the ends), and i did go with 2x6's because i had it on hand. i do plan on using 3/4 ply on the top and bottom frame. I am not sure what I want to skin it with yet. I will upload some pics up either later tonight or in the morning. Any comments or tips will be and are welcome.
Thx

Rich

 

[moondoggy4]

importspeedman I skinned my stand with teak it is not much more expensive than oak and it is sure pretty when it is finished. Honduras Mahogany is very nice and the accent boards are a lot cheaper than teak. I would not get anything thicker than 1/2'' for the bright work. I used 1/4 and it worked just fine.

 

[SpacedCowboy]

Sigh... I'm confused.

The advice given here (consistently, after reading all the way through this thread!) is that a glass aquarium with a black rim should NOT have anything between itself and the stand. All well and good until I go and read http://glasscages.com/?sAction=AqWarranty where it says "A sheet of 3/4" Styrofoam (reaching completely side-to-side and front-to-back) must be placed between the tank and the surface of the stand."

S o who's right ? I assume the tank manufacturer knows what they're talking about, but presumably many people are doing just fine without the styrofoam...

This is interesting to me because I'm planning on getting one of their 240g (96 x 24 x 25) tanks around Xmas time...

Cheers,
Simon

 

[importspeedman]

Sigh... I'm confused.

The advice given here (consistently, after reading all the way through this thread!) is that a glass aquarium with a black rim should NOT have anything between itself and the stand. All well and good until I go and read http://glasscages.com/?sAction=AqWarranty where it says "A sheet of 3/4" Styrofoam (reaching completely side-to-side and front-to-back) must be placed between the tank and the surface of the stand."

S o who's right ? I assume the tank manufacturer knows what they're talking about, but presumably many people are doing just fine without the styrofoam...

This is interesting to me because I'm planning on getting one of their 240g (96 x 24 x 25) tanks around Xmas time...

Cheers,
Simon

It is ok to put Styrofoam on a tank if the glass panel on the bottom (very bottom panel that all your rock work and sand sits on top of) is touching the stand. That is how some manufacturers make their tanks.

You dont want to put styrofoam under a tank when that bottom piece of glass is not touching the stand. This happens two different ways. 1.) The manufacturer builds the tank with that bottom piece of glass inside the tank, above the bottom of the vertical panes of glass. 2.) when the manufacturer builds a tank and puts trim along the bottom of the tank.

The reason you dont want the styrofoam on these two conditions is because the styrofoam will actually push the vertical panes of glass (or trim which is still connected to the vertical pieces of glass) out away from the aquarium structure, possibly causing the panes of glass to come apart.

With all that said, I have never owned a glass cages tank nor do I know how they build them.

Hope this helps.

Rich

 

[importspeedman]

got those pics for ya. sorry about the pics I am no photographer.
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/?action=view&current=IMG_0872.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/IMG_0872.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/?action=view&current=IMG_0874.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/IMG_0874.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/?action=view&current=IMG_0875.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/IMG_0875.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/?action=view&current=IMG_0876.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/IMG_0876.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/?action=view&current=IMG_0877.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/IMG_0877.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/?action=view&current=IMG_0878.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/IMG_0878.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/?action=view&current=IMG_0879.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/IMG_0879.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/?action=view&current=IMG_0882.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/IMG_0882.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/?action=view&current=IMG_0883.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/IMG_0883.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/?action=view&current=IMG_0885.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/import_speed/IMG_0885.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[SpacedCowboy]

It is ok to put Styrofoam on a tank if the glass panel on the bottom (very bottom panel that all your rock work and sand sits on top of) is touching the stand. That is how some manufacturers make their tanks.

You dont want to put styrofoam under a tank when that bottom piece of glass is not touching the stand. This happens two different ways. 1.) The manufacturer builds the tank with that bottom piece of glass inside the tank, above the bottom of the vertical panes of glass. 2.) when the manufacturer builds a tank and puts trim along the bottom of the tank.

The reason you dont want the styrofoam on these two conditions is because the styrofoam will actually push the vertical panes of glass (or trim which is still connected to the vertical pieces of glass) out away from the aquarium structure, possibly causing the panes of glass to come apart.

With all that said, I have never owned a glass cages tank nor do I know how they build them.

Hope this helps.

Rich

Right, this is what I understood, but the problem is that they build tanks *with* the black frame (ie: the glass is *not* touching the wooden frame) and still insist there ought to be styrofoam between the two - here's a picture of the 240 I was planning on getting:

Note the black border (the frame).

Cheers
Simon

 

[TheFishMan65]

SpacedCowboy,

It seems that CG has different rules. Up above I posted an email where I was told that a four foot tank only needs to be supported at the ends. Or even a few inches (6 IIRC) on each corner. A larger tank need to be supported in the middle of the longer span.

My only guesses are that either the frame is not as strong. Or perhaps more likely how they are built. Is the bottom glass inside the four edges or are the four edges resting on the bottom? If the bottom is inside I could see a reason to support the bottom glass. IF the sides rest on the bottom I could see only supporting the sides. But then again I am thinking this through as I type

 

[importspeedman]

As I said, I dont know how they manufacture their tanks. If their warranty says to use styrofoam, I would use styrofoam. Their warranty also states" if you cut or alter the silicone seams of the aquarium" it will void your warranty. From what I hear, most people receive their tanks and are disgusted by the seals and end up cleaning them up with a razor.

With all that said,
1) I would follow their warranty word for word so that if it does fail in the 90 day I could rightfully ask for my money back or a replacement.
2) The warranty is only 90 days, and 99.9% of tanks dont fail this soon into its life. I actually haven't heard of any (besides hobbyists who build their own without proper knowledge and experience first).
Hope this point of view helps ya out a little.
Rich

 

[110galreef]

ok...building a stand for a 66L x 36W x 24H. ~ 250gallons.

Are 2x8's plenty? or 2x10's better? Also can the legs simply go straight to the floor and not build a bottom frame? Stand is being built in basement on a concrete floor. Also would seem easier to level w/ the legs directly hitting the floor opposed to a bottom box frame.

Also how many middle supports/cross braces do I need on the top frame....

Thanks

 

[Schreff]

Is there a thread on skinning? Here is where im at so far for my 55g. I plan on having matching stands for my 55g and 110g.

And with a coat of Kilz.

Yes im using 2x6's on the top.... I know over kill but I like to sleep at night lol. Plus i have to get them painted while we are tearing up the floor in the dining room....

 

[C-Rad]

ok...building a stand for a 66L x 36W x 24H. ~ 250gallons.

Are 2x8's plenty? or 2x10's better? Also can the legs simply go straight to the floor and not build a bottom frame? Stand is being built in basement on a concrete floor. Also would seem easier to level w/ the legs directly hitting the floor opposed to a bottom box frame.

Also how many middle supports/cross braces do I need on the top frame....

Thanks

2x8 will be more than enough. Here's my reasoning.
According to the first post in this thread by RocketEngineer, for a tank with normal rectangular dimensions, a 2x6 is sufficient for tanks with a long dimension of 48" to 72". In another thread he said that the "strength" of the horizontal piece (resistance to deflection (bowing)) increases with the cube of the width of the horizontal piece. That means that if beam A is 2 times the width of beam B, then beam A is eight times as strong as beam B (2 cubed is 2*2*2 = 8).

A 2x6 is 5.5" wide, and a 2x8 is 7.25" wide. In other words, a 2x8 is 1.3182 times the width of a 2x6. Since 1.3182 cubed = 2.29, we know that a 2x8 is 2.29 times stronger than a 2x6, and since a 2x6 would be fine for your tank if your tank were 18" wide instead of 36" wide, we know that a 2x8 can handle your tank.

Another way to say it would be: since 2x6's would be fine if your tank were half as heavy as it is, and since 2x8's are more than twice as strong as 2x6's, you know that 2x8's would be fine for your tank.

I'm assuming that your tank only needs support on the edges. If that's not true, then just think of your tank as being two tanks, where each one is 66x18x24, Imagine a stand for each of these two tanks, and set these two stands next to each other to support your tank. That would amount to a single stand 66x36, made with horizontal 2x6's around the four edges, plus two side by side 66" long 2x6's supporting the center. I would replace these two with a single 66" long 2x8 (since we know it is twice as strong as a 2x6).

If you skin it with at least 1/4" plywood (I would use 3/8") then you can avoid using the 2x4's along the base. You need to make sure that no matter how hard you kick the bottom of the leg, that it will stay at 90 degrees relative to the top horizontal pieces. If you don't want to skin the whole thing, you MUST at least screw in a plywood triangle (about 18x18x25.5) at each of the 90 degree angles made by each of the four corner legs (8 triangles in all). If you don't, you risk the legs folding.

 

[TheFishMan65]

I agree with C-Rad that a 2x6 is strong enough from the first post.

I disagree in general with not needing a bottom frame. On a concrete floor probably not, but for the average floor part of the purpose of this frame is to distribute the weight of the tank. Just for those coming on in the middle of this thread.

 

[110galreef]

2x8 will be more than enough. Here's my reasoning.
According to the first post in this thread by RocketEngineer, for a tank with normal rectangular dimensions, a 2x6 is sufficient for tanks with a long dimension of 48" to 72". In another thread he said that the "strength" of the horizontal piece (resistance to deflection (bowing)) increases with the cube of the width of the horizontal piece. That means that if beam A is 2 times the width of beam B, then beam A is eight times as strong as beam B (2 cubed is 2*2*2 = 8).

A 2x6 is 5.5" wide, and a 2x8 is 7.25" wide. In other words, a 2x8 is 1.3182 times the width of a 2x6. Since 1.3182 cubed = 2.29, we know that a 2x8 is 2.29 times stronger than a 2x6, and since a 2x6 would be fine for your tank if your tank were 18" wide instead of 36" wide, we know that a 2x8 can handle your tank.

Another way to say it would be: since 2x6's would be fine if your tank were half as heavy as it is, and since 2x8's are more than twice as strong as 2x6's, you know that 2x8's would be fine for your tank.

I'm assuming that your tank only needs support on the edges. If that's not true, then just think of your tank as being two tanks, where each one is 66x18x24, Imagine a stand for each of these two tanks, and set these two stands next to each other to support your tank. That would amount to a single stand 66x36, made with horizontal 2x6's around the four edges, plus two side by side 66" long 2x6's supporting the center. I would replace these two with a single 66" long 2x8 (since we know it is twice as strong as a 2x6).

If you skin it with at least 1/4" plywood (I would use 3/8") then you can avoid using the 2x4's along the base. You need to make sure that no matter how hard you kick the bottom of the leg, that it will stay at 90 degrees relative to the top horizontal pieces. If you don't want to skin the whole thing, you MUST at least screw in a plywood triangle (about 18x18x25.5) at each of the 90 degree angles made by each of the four corner legs (8 triangles in all). If you don't, you risk the legs folding.

Thanks, I dont plan to skin it...in wall setup. But i would build a base or frame for the legs atthe bottom so they wouldn't mocve as well as create a "ledge/shelf" for the sump to sit on. Would this still work and not require the bottom frame for the legs and allow te legs to support full load at the concret floor. again ground floor ina basement.

Thanks

 

[110galreef]

I agree with C-Rad that a 2x6 is strong enough from the first post.

I disagree in general with not needing a bottom frame. On a concrete floor probably not, but for the average floor part of the purpose of this frame is to distribute the weight of the tank. Just for those coming on in the middle of this thread.

So since this is on a concrete floor in a basement, you feel that the legs straight to the floor is fine.

 

[TheFishMan65]

Not a concrete expert, but I would think concrete would not require the spreading of the load.

 

[110galreef]

Not a concrete expert, but I would think concrete would not require the spreading of the load.

Ok, I will verify how level the concrete floor is and if not to bad then I will build the base frame. How do you suggest leveling something like this?

Also are 2x4's still plenty for the legs? Plan to make the stand a total of 39" tall. Or would 2x6 be in order and better?

Also cross braces on the top section. Just one 2x8 running the 66" span is plenty? Also how do I mount/ support it?

Or could I just double up the 2x8's on the front & back & be done. So a total of 4 horizontal 2x8's running the length of the tank (66"),
2 horizontal 2x8's running the width (36"),
2 2x4's in the corners glued together as well as a 2x6. the 2x6 would be on the sides & the 2x4's on the faces to support the 66"span of 2- 2x8'.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[TheFishMan65]

From the way i have read this thread 2x4 legs are fine.

2x8 along the front, sides and back of the tanks should support from what I have read. Cross bracing won't hurt. If acrylic then cross braces and plywood top are required.

You could double the 2x8, but why sped the extra money?