DIY Sulfur Denitrator
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
Black71gp
New member
hey guess i worded that wrong..lol.. not another gallon still only the two.. i have a pad on top now had to put that in cause i think the media what churning and getting ground up.. seems to be holding a steady drip now.. nitrates never yet have gone below 100.. they went to that due to a water change.. the reactor is dripping like 6 dps now and around 5 PPM nitrate hoping it drops to 0 shortly and i will up the flow a little more.. things seem to be working again now with the new reactor.. hopefully it will really get up to par here and start lowering them and i can really really up the flow...
djfrankie
In Memoriam
No problem...how do you count 6 dps?
You may want to lower that flow until the reactor catches up. I've found that most times the unit should catch up to the new flowrate quite rapidly sometimes in as little as a few hours.
In essence, slow down the flow and increment no more than 10% higher flow per adjustment. I know it can be time consuming, but with increments of 10% each time pretty soon you'll be processing a substantial amount of nitrates every 24 hours.
Let me know if this makes sense??. I really can't wait til you get this thing really working for you
djfrankie
Black71gp
New member
i have a mag 3.. might have to put a ball valve in and slow it down.. worked fine in the last set up ith less media and smaller chamber.... just having a tough time keeping a steady drip rate... being fed with a MJ1200... seems to be slowly going .. think i might try some sugar just to get things droping so i stop loosing so many sps..
things not working out
things not working out
OK.....for everyone's success story, there must be some failures.
Here's my failure story.
"Big Brown", as I called my reactor, was posted on page 17.
Unit was tested and water went in, filled up the unit, got recirculated and came out. So unit should have worked.
I put in about .5-.6L of sulfur (Caribsea LSM) - which is more than enough for a 65 gal tank, 2 blue pads to keep things clean, then filled the rest of the cylinder up with course aragonite.
Fired it up, and let it run with a drip rate of about 1dps. Water in from tank and effluent out to skimmer.
After nothing happened after 1 1/2 weeks, I upped the drip rate to about 3dps. After another few days still nothing. When I say "nothing" I mean that the unit is producing no gas at all and the nitrates out=nitrates in (which is more than 80 but less than 160 on API scale).
My only known flaw was that I rinsed the goop out of the sulfur with tap water (I know, I wasn't thinking at the time) and this may have killed the "seeding". However, the thread said that even unseeded sulfur should fire up in 2-3 weeks. I am coming up on almost 3 weeks.
I'M going to open my flow full up to flush out the unit for a few hours tonight, then drop it back to 1-2dps.
If I don't get any gas by the weekend, I'm going to break it down, and start over again with new sulfur. (Should I save the old sulfur or just dump it?)
I feel really let down. What went wrong? Any ideas?.......MARC
Postscript: to make life more interesting, the output hose fell out of the skimmer tonight, after I turned it up to full output, and dumped 2-3 gal of water onto the cabinet and floor before I noticed it. My wife was thrilled w/me. Oh, the joys of a saltwater tank!
things not working out
OK.....for everyone's success story, there must be some failures.
Here's my failure story.
"Big Brown", as I called my reactor, was posted on page 17.
Unit was tested and water went in, filled up the unit, got recirculated and came out. So unit should have worked.
I put in about .5-.6L of sulfur (Caribsea LSM) - which is more than enough for a 65 gal tank, 2 blue pads to keep things clean, then filled the rest of the cylinder up with course aragonite.
Fired it up, and let it run with a drip rate of about 1dps. Water in from tank and effluent out to skimmer.
After nothing happened after 1 1/2 weeks, I upped the drip rate to about 3dps. After another few days still nothing. When I say "nothing" I mean that the unit is producing no gas at all and the nitrates out=nitrates in (which is more than 80 but less than 160 on API scale).
My only known flaw was that I rinsed the goop out of the sulfur with tap water (I know, I wasn't thinking at the time) and this may have killed the "seeding". However, the thread said that even unseeded sulfur should fire up in 2-3 weeks. I am coming up on almost 3 weeks.
I'M going to open my flow full up to flush out the unit for a few hours tonight, then drop it back to 1-2dps.
If I don't get any gas by the weekend, I'm going to break it down, and start over again with new sulfur. (Should I save the old sulfur or just dump it?)
I feel really let down. What went wrong? Any ideas?.......MARC
Postscript: to make life more interesting, the output hose fell out of the skimmer tonight, after I turned it up to full output, and dumped 2-3 gal of water onto the cabinet and floor before I noticed it. My wife was thrilled w/me. Oh, the joys of a saltwater tank!
saltydog64
New member
Black..........................
Not sure what u mean "being fed by a MJ 1200" ......and in your case with Nitrates @ +100 PPM it wll be slow going...speaking from my own trials it took weeks to get it..............BUT u will get it.......
I don't want you to think I stick'n my nose in here....but you might want to re-think the sugar idea.........that's is you haven't aready done so.....why??? first adding sugar while running a SR "could" give some nasty results....one of which "could" be a very cloudy tank. It seems to me up to this point you have been VERY patient in your efforts and believe me I know how hard that is.
I don't remember your total setup like is the SR in the same room as your tank? Is it possible the temperature in the SR is lower than the main tank, I guess a degree or two is not an issue but more than that could be. One easy way to check w/o upsetting your run is to open vent valve until water flows out (that way when u unscrew the vent you willn't get excess air in there, then stick a thermerator in to check temp....if higher (it could be higher due to MJ circlulating) than tank temp good, but if cooler than desired u could wrap the SR in that silvery insulation they use on duct-work for example.
saltydog64
New member
Marc.........
Man she must love u......sorry about the mess but as you know it could have been much worse...
Now what went wrong ??...
Your initial Nitrates are very high (like I have tell you) and as such, cycling a SR with high trates could take weeks, I know from my own use..You must adhere to what dj suggested for a FR of 1 dps, this is a must....you must make it, the SR, go close to if not anaerobic sp? increasing the FR before its cycled allows to much O2 to get in there, the bacteria we're trying develope willn't seed with O2...and only prolongs the time to cycle.
If I recall the one gallon container of LSM is much more than .5 liters, right ?? Now I know about the calcalations for tank size and sulfur needed( I think they are done for "normal" situations, not with initial Nitrates @ +100PPM) but I would ( did u rinse the whole gallon or just what u used ??) fill "Big Brown" almost full with sulfur using just a little ARM for now. High Nitrates require drastic measures to get results....but u will.... one per second.....
Man she must love u......sorry about the mess but as you know it could have been much worse...
Now what went wrong ??...
Your initial Nitrates are very high (like I have tell you) and as such, cycling a SR with high trates could take weeks, I know from my own use..You must adhere to what dj suggested for a FR of 1 dps, this is a must....you must make it, the SR, go close to if not anaerobic sp? increasing the FR before its cycled allows to much O2 to get in there, the bacteria we're trying develope willn't seed with O2...and only prolongs the time to cycle.
If I recall the one gallon container of LSM is much more than .5 liters, right ?? Now I know about the calcalations for tank size and sulfur needed( I think they are done for "normal" situations, not with initial Nitrates @ +100PPM) but I would ( did u rinse the whole gallon or just what u used ??) fill "Big Brown" almost full with sulfur using just a little ARM for now. High Nitrates require drastic measures to get results....but u will.... one per second.....
Black71gp
New member
thanks for the heads up.. the feed pump is a MJ 1200 thats what pumps the water into the unit.. the gas vent and output are the same line.. so it always is degasing the unit.. anyway ok no on sugar.. i know this one will work.. just gotta get it back into the swing like the last one.. this thread is the best...!!
salty...
1 gallon = 3.79 L I used a little less than 1/6th of the gallon container by sight. This should have been somewheres in the .6L range. So, I think I used more than enough sulfur. DJ's formula would indicate I only needed a little less than .4L to do the trick.
I was hoping the flush would make sure the unit was getting a proper flow-through. With no air pockets or clogs.
If you think the reactor hasn't been running anaerobic enough, would it help if I shut off ALL inflow and ALL outflow, and just let the water in it recirculate -- that should use up all the O2 in the canister. The nitrates in the water should give it plenty of food . If so, how long should I run it like this before starting the flow again?
I'll take all the help I can get right now.............. MARC
1 gallon = 3.79 L I used a little less than 1/6th of the gallon container by sight. This should have been somewheres in the .6L range. So, I think I used more than enough sulfur. DJ's formula would indicate I only needed a little less than .4L to do the trick.
I was hoping the flush would make sure the unit was getting a proper flow-through. With no air pockets or clogs.
If you think the reactor hasn't been running anaerobic enough, would it help if I shut off ALL inflow and ALL outflow, and just let the water in it recirculate -- that should use up all the O2 in the canister. The nitrates in the water should give it plenty of food . If so, how long should I run it like this before starting the flow again?
I'll take all the help I can get right now.............. MARC
Last edited:
Schplitter
New member
Re: Re: Here is one I built
Re: Re: Here is one I built
Thanks!!
It took a few attempts but I think I got it figured out now. The bending is hard to do. Once you heat the acrylic it will not bond and if it does it will shatter into pieces after a few hours. Because of this I had to make sure not to applying any heat to the surfaces you want to bond... from that point it's pretty much just bond and tweak…
The left side is for the Ca media and the right side is for the S. It's a basic loop with the MJ on top. The 1/4" closer to the pump is where the effluent leaves the reactor and the other side is the inlet from the tank....
I'm the "Acrylic guy" in the local club so that's why I built this myself.
BK
Re: Re: Here is one I built
Thanks!!
It took a few attempts but I think I got it figured out now. The bending is hard to do. Once you heat the acrylic it will not bond and if it does it will shatter into pieces after a few hours. Because of this I had to make sure not to applying any heat to the surfaces you want to bond... from that point it's pretty much just bond and tweak…
The left side is for the Ca media and the right side is for the S. It's a basic loop with the MJ on top. The 1/4" closer to the pump is where the effluent leaves the reactor and the other side is the inlet from the tank....
I'm the "Acrylic guy" in the local club so that's why I built this myself.
BK
saltydog64
New member
Marc....
If u "only" used approx. 1/6 th of the orginal LSM then it must mean you have the bal. of unrinsed sulfur still in the LSM contanier, correct ?? So, well first your question on shutting down on input/output, that's exactly what I did and in about 24 hours or so it will or should go O2 free and make H2S, sniff carefully @ the vent to confirm, and o ya take a water sample and I'll assure u it will read ZERO on both NO2 and NO3 if it went totally anaerobic. If so just reset to full flow for what time it takes to clear up the smell (suggest u do this on the weekend so u can monitor the progress). Having done that reset flow rate to 1 dps and cross your fingers.......Now re read some of other folks cycling these things and u will find your not alone, I want to be carefull here and remember I'm only using mine own exper. here, but I had to use much more sulfur than the calc. which I think are a guide line and a darn good one BUT your orginal trates are VERY hi......so use more...IMO..
Good luck !!!! MARC
If u "only" used approx. 1/6 th of the orginal LSM then it must mean you have the bal. of unrinsed sulfur still in the LSM contanier, correct ?? So, well first your question on shutting down on input/output, that's exactly what I did and in about 24 hours or so it will or should go O2 free and make H2S, sniff carefully @ the vent to confirm, and o ya take a water sample and I'll assure u it will read ZERO on both NO2 and NO3 if it went totally anaerobic. If so just reset to full flow for what time it takes to clear up the smell (suggest u do this on the weekend so u can monitor the progress). Having done that reset flow rate to 1 dps and cross your fingers.......Now re read some of other folks cycling these things and u will find your not alone, I want to be carefull here and remember I'm only using mine own exper. here, but I had to use much more sulfur than the calc. which I think are a guide line and a darn good one BUT your orginal trates are VERY hi......so use more...IMO..
Good luck !!!! MARC
For What's It's Worth 
mjpinsky - Add the 1 Lt (2 lbs.) of sulphur to your reactor.
I originally used about .6 in mine for a 50 + gal.
It was not what I expected, & it took forever to cycle.
This time I'm using 2 lbs ( 1 Lt) & it's a big difference.
worst case, you may have to remove some of it in the
future.
Sorry to say, but I have noticed that people
in this thread using the LSM sulphur, seem
to have a problem with their reactor's.
research I have done on the commercial unit$,
all use the spherical "Midwest brand" sulphur.
Perhaps the LSM being more of a granular type, is
the reason (restricted flow through the media) for
a lot of the problems JMO.
Do the 1 dps for the 3 day's, & then open it up slightly
to 3 ~ 4 dps. let it sit overnight at this setting, & then
check the NO3 level at the output. if it's 0 ppm
open it some more. If it's not 0 ppm let it sit &
it will catch up. all adjustment's to the dps,
require the reactor to catch up & zero out.
eventually you will need a graduated measuring
device to measure the amount of flow.
I use an old Salifert plastic testing vile that is marked
off in 5ml increments with a sharpie. my flow rate is set
at 25 ml every 30 seconds ( 50 ml per min) roughly
3 Lt. per hour flow rate.
I hope it works out for you.
Steve
:smokin:
mjpinsky - Add the 1 Lt (2 lbs.) of sulphur to your reactor.
I originally used about .6 in mine for a 50 + gal.
It was not what I expected, & it took forever to cycle.
This time I'm using 2 lbs ( 1 Lt) & it's a big difference.
worst case, you may have to remove some of it in the
future.
Sorry to say, but I have noticed that people
in this thread using the LSM sulphur, seem
to have a problem with their reactor's.
research I have done on the commercial unit$,
all use the spherical "Midwest brand" sulphur.
Perhaps the LSM being more of a granular type, is
the reason (restricted flow through the media) for
a lot of the problems
JMO.Do the 1 dps for the 3 day's, & then open it up slightly
to 3 ~ 4 dps. let it sit overnight at this setting, & then
check the NO3 level at the output. if it's 0 ppm
open it some more. If it's not 0 ppm let it sit &
it will catch up. all adjustment's to the dps,
require the reactor to catch up & zero out.
eventually you will need a graduated measuring
device to measure the amount of flow.
I use an old Salifert plastic testing vile that is marked
off in 5ml increments with a sharpie. my flow rate is set
at 25 ml every 30 seconds ( 50 ml per min) roughly
3 Lt. per hour flow rate.
I hope it works out for you.
Steve
:smokin:
still trying to get my reactor to work.......
still trying to get my reactor to work.......
OK>>>
My reactor is a variation of DJFrankie's design on page 4 of original thread. you can see my pic on pg 17 of this thread.
I took suggestions and shut all input and output to reactor and let it recirculate it own fluid for 18 hours. This should have been long enough for the water to go anaerobic (if I shut off all filters and circ to tank for 18 hours my fish would have all suffocated )and I should have gotten some H2S gas being produced.
Still absolutely no gas produced at all -- I only get water out of the output tube.
SO>>>>
I opened the unit and added about another 1/2 liter of unwashed seeded LSM sulfur to what was already in the reactor chamber. There should now be a little over 1 liter of sulfur in the reactor chamber.
Instead of the finer blue filter pad, I separated the sulfur from the aragonite with a course black filter pad (theoretically for better flow-through) and put the aragonite back in.
(I still have an approx 2:1 ratio of arag:sulfur for buffering effect).
I filled the unit with nitrate high tank water, closed it and set it up for a 1 dps output.
Now I'll play the waiting game again and see if I can get it working.
Wish me luck.................... MARC
still trying to get my reactor to work.......
OK>>>
My reactor is a variation of DJFrankie's design on page 4 of original thread. you can see my pic on pg 17 of this thread.
I took suggestions and shut all input and output to reactor and let it recirculate it own fluid for 18 hours. This should have been long enough for the water to go anaerobic (if I shut off all filters and circ to tank for 18 hours my fish would have all suffocated )and I should have gotten some H2S gas being produced.
Still absolutely no gas produced at all -- I only get water out of the output tube.
SO>>>>
I opened the unit and added about another 1/2 liter of unwashed seeded LSM sulfur to what was already in the reactor chamber. There should now be a little over 1 liter of sulfur in the reactor chamber.
Instead of the finer blue filter pad, I separated the sulfur from the aragonite with a course black filter pad (theoretically for better flow-through) and put the aragonite back in.
(I still have an approx 2:1 ratio of arag:sulfur for buffering effect).
I filled the unit with nitrate high tank water, closed it and set it up for a 1 dps output.
Now I'll play the waiting game again and see if I can get it working.
Wish me luck.................... MARC
"Do the 1 dps for the 3 day's, & then open it up slightly
to 3 ~ 4 dps. let it sit overnight at this setting, & then
check the NO3 level at the output. if it's 0 ppm
open it some more. If it's not 0 ppm let it sit &
it will catch up. all adjustment's to the dps,
require the reactor to catch up & zero out.
Be Patient.
Steve
:smokin:
to 3 ~ 4 dps. let it sit overnight at this setting, & then
check the NO3 level at the output. if it's 0 ppm
open it some more. If it's not 0 ppm let it sit &
it will catch up. all adjustment's to the dps,
require the reactor to catch up & zero out.
Be Patient.
Steve
:smokin:
saltydog64
New member
Marc..........
Just for the record............I would NEVER suggest shutdowning your TANK for a minute let alone for 24 hours...poor coms on our part I guess....sounds to me u don't have a 'T' w/shutoff to your SR....if so not a good idea.... no way to isolate it from the main system... if so u should re-think that one.....IOM that is....
Just for the record............I would NEVER suggest shutdowning your TANK for a minute let alone for 24 hours...poor coms on our part I guess....sounds to me u don't have a 'T' w/shutoff to your SR....if so not a good idea.... no way to isolate it from the main system... if so u should re-think that one.....IOM that is....
Just for the record:
the thought on flow rate / ratio to media ratio, should not exceed more than 5x per Lt, per hour.
1 Lt of media to 1 ~5 Lt's of flow per hour.
After several day's of cycling & adjustments, I have eventually set the flow to 50 ml per minuet, for the 1 LT of sulphur in the reactor. roughly, this is 3 Lt's of flow per hour passing through the media.
Dj has mentioned this formula in a previous post, & it seem's to work well.
As with anything that needs to be adjusted, some people's results will slightly vary. the key is to stay on the safe side of 3 ~ 3.5 Lt's of flow per hour per lt. of media.
Good luck as always.
Steve
:smokin:
Thanks to all for the suggestions. I am putting all of them to good use.
I DO have shutoffs on my unit -- one at "gas" output (closed); one at water input (partially open to regulate output); and one at effluent output (full open).
To clarify a remark I made, I was trying to equate the time it would take for the reactor to go anaerobic if all flow was shut off to it. I would NEVER purposely shut off flow to the tank to see how long it would take for my "pets" to suffocate -- that is paramount to cruelty, let alone stupidity for all the investment in time and money that would have been thrown away. -- I even have an automatic battery powered air pump that I use on my tank during power failures to prevent O2 depletion. It lasts about 24hours on a set of D batteries. I am sorry if anyone got the wrong impression by my comment.
NOW.....
Can 24hr make that much of a difference???? :eek1:
I upped the sulfur to about 1L at 10am Saturday, and for the heck of it checked the NO3 level at 2pm today -- the tank still reads on the dark side of 80ppm while the reactor output now reads on the dark side of 20ppm -- and I checked it twice! I guess it is starting to cycle! (Still no noticeable gas output, however).
I'll make another post when output drops to 0ppm.
.....................MARC
I DO have shutoffs on my unit -- one at "gas" output (closed); one at water input (partially open to regulate output); and one at effluent output (full open).
To clarify a remark I made, I was trying to equate the time it would take for the reactor to go anaerobic if all flow was shut off to it. I would NEVER purposely shut off flow to the tank to see how long it would take for my "pets" to suffocate -- that is paramount to cruelty, let alone stupidity for all the investment in time and money that would have been thrown away. -- I even have an automatic battery powered air pump that I use on my tank during power failures to prevent O2 depletion. It lasts about 24hours on a set of D batteries. I am sorry if anyone got the wrong impression by my comment.
NOW.....
Can 24hr make that much of a difference???? :eek1:
I upped the sulfur to about 1L at 10am Saturday, and for the heck of it checked the NO3 level at 2pm today -- the tank still reads on the dark side of 80ppm while the reactor output now reads on the dark side of 20ppm -- and I checked it twice! I guess it is starting to cycle! (Still no noticeable gas output, however).
I'll make another post when output drops to 0ppm.
.....................MARC
saltydog64
New member
mj...........
EXCELLANT..........It looks like you're on your way....as Steve mentioned keep a check on NO2 @ the output, if detected u might have to bump up the flow rate a little, recheck adj as needed...good job...looks like more Sulfur is going to work !!
EXCELLANT..........It looks like you're on your way....as Steve mentioned keep a check on NO2 @ the output, if detected u might have to bump up the flow rate a little, recheck adj as needed...good job...looks like more Sulfur is going to work !!
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