DIY Sulfur Denitrator

[mjpinsky]

NO2 or NO3???

NO2 or NO3???

Steve and/or Salty

Just want to clarify my terms....
Should I be checking Nitrite (NO2) or Nitrate (NO3) levels at the output?
I haven't used my Nitrite kit in a long time since my tank levels of Ammonia and Nitrite dropped to 0 and stayed that way. If I should also be checking effluent Nitrite levels I may need to buy a new test kit as it it at least 2 years old..................................MARC

 

[djfrankie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13922907#post13922907 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Black71gp
just having a tough time keeping a steady drip rate...

Jarred,
the reason you're having a tough time dialing the unit in is because you are venting out of the same line. We talked about this a while back at the beginning of the thread and you may have overlooked it.

I tried doing that from the very begining, but I kept getting the drip line "air locked". Once I went with the vent on the top and a separate effluent line all issues pertaining to flow went away.

Give it a try and you'll see!

djfrankie

 

[djfrankie]

Re: things not working out

Re: things not working out

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13923933#post13923933 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mjpinsky
OK.....for everyone's success story, there must be some failures.
Here's my failure story.

"Big Brown", as I called my reactor, was posted on page 17.
Unit was tested and water went in, filled up the unit, got recirculated and came out. So unit should have worked.

I put in about .5-.6L of sulfur (Caribsea LSM) - which is more than enough for a 65 gal tank, 2 blue pads to keep things clean, then filled the rest of the cylinder up with course aragonite.

Fired it up, and let it run with a drip rate of about 1dps. Water in from tank and effluent out to skimmer.
After nothing happened after 1 1/2 weeks, I upped the drip rate to about 3dps. After another few days still nothing. When I say "nothing" I mean that the unit is producing no gas at all and the nitrates out=nitrates in (which is more than 80 but less than 160 on API scale).
My only known flaw was that I rinsed the goop out of the sulfur with tap water (I know, I wasn't thinking at the time) and this may have killed the "seeding". However, the thread said that even unseeded sulfur should fire up in 2-3 weeks. I am coming up on almost 3 weeks.
I'M going to open my flow full up to flush out the unit for a few hours tonight, then drop it back to 1-2dps.
If I don't get any gas by the weekend, I'm going to break it down, and start over again with new sulfur. (Should I save the old sulfur or just dump it?)
I feel really let down. What went wrong? Any ideas?.......MARC

Postscript: to make life more interesting, the output hose fell out of the skimmer tonight, after I turned it up to full output, and dumped 2-3 gal of water onto the cabinet and floor before I noticed it. My wife was thrilled w/me. Oh, the joys of a saltwater tank!

Marc,

All the guidelines are based on nitrate levels being 50 or less.

In all cases where the nitrate levels exceed that amount you can expect much longer than usual results.

Also there is difference between Caribsea LSM and Midwest media. Midwest media is already pre-seeded with NBC#9 which tremendously helps to accelerate the process. Most people that opted for Caribsea LSM have had longer cycling periods and that's the price you pay.

I called Caribsea a while back regarding this and they informed me that their media was not pre-seeded and it will eventually preseed itself from the anaerobic bacteria already present in everyone's tank.

So. washing the media in your case did not create any issues. This is assuming you didn't wash it with tap water ??? and chlorine was absorbed by the media.

My advise in your case is simple:

20 gallon water change will work wonders to give the unit a head start. Make sure replacement water is at the same specific gravity, pH and temperature as the water in your tank. This is normal operating procedure everytime you perform a water change. You can adjust the pH with baking soda or vinegar.

Nitrites will interfere with your nitrate levels while the unit is cycling. I never bothered checking nitrites just nitrates.

Let us know if you have any other questions.

HTH,
djfrankie

 

[djfrankie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13938523#post13938523 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Steve 926
Just for the record:

the thought on flow rate / ratio to media ratio, should not exceed more than 5x per Lt, per hour.

1 Lt of media to 1 ~5 Lt's of flow per hour.

After several day's of cycling & adjustments, I have eventually set the flow to 50 ml per minuet, for the 1 LT of sulphur in the reactor. roughly, this is 3 Lt's of flow per hour passing through the media.

Dj has mentioned this formula in a previous post, & it seem's to work well.

As with anything that needs to be adjusted, some people's results will slightly vary. the key is to stay on the safe side of 3 ~ 3.5 Lt's of flow per hour per lt. of media.

Good luck as always.

Steve

:smokin:

Steve,
thanks for bringing this back up.

It is important to stick to well known and documented parameters.

Cheers,
djfrankie

 

[djfrankie]

Well guys,

I have officially retired from djing :bounce2: :dance: :celeb2: :wavehand: After 20 years of spinning records I just can't do it anymore. I'm now partially deaf in one ear and my back gives me more problems than a badly designed Yugo.

I will be finishing up the article for Reefkeeping magazine and will be asking some of you guys for permission to use pics of your denitrators.

This means I will have a little more time to spend here now helping out others.

Many thanks go out to:

saltydog64
Jarrod &
Steve

for keeping this thread alive and well.

We all have learned quite a bit since this thread started. From the bacterias that actually makes this process happen to the temperatures they don't like

Enjoy!!

djfrankie

ps. Should I change my userid now that I don't dj anymore???

 

[saltydog64]

dj.........

You'll always be "dj" to us................so NO!!! stay with the ID..

Your're very welcome.......and we all look forward to your continuing partication in this great thread, and you bet I've learned a lot just by being here and if in small way I helped.......well that's good too..

Good luck in your new adventure in your store !!!!!

Dick

 

[tjl116]

i switch over awhile back from crushed coral to sand subsrate so i have a 5 gal bucket of crushed coral. my question is can this be used in the reactor?

 

[mjpinsky]

tj..
There is no reason why you couldn't use the crushed coral in your reactor as for all intents and purposes aragonite is crushed coral just as ARM is just crushed coral.
HOWEVER, make sure the coral is fully washed and sun dried and rewashed to get out all the impurities from your tank before putting it in your reactor to buffer out the effects of the sulfur.
It does seem like going to a lot a trouble and effort to save a few bucks, however. .................... MARC

 

[Steve 926]

It depend's on how long the CC was in use as a substrate. It doe's have a life expectancy for buffering.

Steve

:smokin:

 

[mattkd5]

hi dj i been following this thread for a couple of weeks now and its been a life saver. i built my denitrator using your design and the media you recommended and it is working great. my nitrares are down to 0 and my corals never been happier. the one question i have is how often do i have to change the arm media in the reactor i am sure you answerd this question somewhere in this thread but i cant locate it. well thanks again for all the great information that you posted on this thread

kenny

 

[djfrankie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13958494#post13958494 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mattkd5
hi dj i been following this thread for a couple of weeks now and its been a life saver. i built my denitrator using your design and the media you recommended and it is working great. my nitrares are down to 0 and my corals never been happier. the one question i have is how often do i have to change the arm media in the reactor i am sure you answerd this question somewhere in this thread but i cant locate it. well thanks again for all the great information that you posted on this thread

kenny

Thanks for the comments and for keeping us posted.

I don't really know how long the aragonite will last in your reactor. I will assume much longer than if the media were used in a calcium reactor since the ph inside these units runs much higher than in a calcium reactor.

I would just keep an eye on it maybe once a year and make sure it doesn't turn to mush and it starts clogging up the lines and / or the pump.

That's about the only foreseeable issue I see when using aragonite media inside the sulfur reactor.

HTH,
djfrankie

 

[mattkd5]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13960796#post13960796 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by djfrankie
Thanks for the comments and for keeping us posted.

I don't really know how long the aragonite will last in your reactor. I will assume much longer than if the media were used in a calcium reactor since the ph inside these units runs much higher than in a calcium reactor.

I would just keep an eye on it maybe once a year and make sure it doesn't turn to mush and it starts clogging up the lines and / or the pump.

That's about the only foreseeable issue I see when using aragonite media inside the sulfur reactor.

HTH,
djfrankie

thanks dj for the quick reply

 

[mjpinsky]

reactor status

reactor status

I just increased the output on "big brown" to about 3L/hr (maybe a tinge more).
It had been running at a little over 1.5L/hr and NO3 was 0 (via API test kit) and NO2 was about 0.3 (via Sera test kit).
So, everything seems to be going OK. I have some GFO (Phosban) on order to help get rid of any sulfur I might be dumping into the tank's water. Now all I have to do is sit back and wait for my tank levels to start dropping -- and yes, I realize with high levels like I have, this will take some time (even with water changes)

Tiny question/comment for you all...
When I open my top "gas outlet" I never seem to get any gas but do get water. When this valve is opened, the effluent output stops. When the valve is closed again, the effluent output goes back to normal again.
My assumption is that any trapped gas in top of unit when it was sealed, when released, allowed the water level to rise. Each time I checked for gas, the water level rose a bit more, until all empty space was filled in by water. If and when I ever get any gas build -up, this would displace the water level and water out of the top would cease. Does my reasoning make sense???? or... did I do something wrong which needs to be corrected?

Anyway, Happy Holidays to all the SR DIY-selfers out there.
Happy Channukah and Merry Christmas................ MARC

 

[Steve 926]

Yup, I see exactly what you're doing wrong.

you are worrying about it to much

Sit back & enjoy your accomplishment, it will settle in now.

MERRY CHRISTMAS & HAPPY HOLIDAY'S TO ALL.

WISHING EVERYONE A SAFE & GOOD NEW YEAR TO COME

Steve

:smokin:

 

[djfrankie]

Re: reactor status

Re: reactor status

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13989107#post13989107 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mjpinsky
Tiny question/comment for you all...
When I open my top "gas outlet" I never seem to get any gas but do get water. When this valve is opened, the effluent output stops. When the valve is closed again, the effluent output goes back to normal again.
My assumption is that any trapped gas in top of unit when it was sealed, when released, allowed the water level to rise. Each time I checked for gas, the water level rose a bit more, until all empty space was filled in by water. If and when I ever get any gas build -up, this would displace the water level and water out of the top would cease. Does my reasoning make sense???? or... did I do something wrong which needs to be corrected?

Anyway, Happy Holidays to all the SR DIY-selfers out there.
Happy Channukah and Merry Christmas................ MARC

Water will take the path of least resistance, in this case the completely opened top valve.

Glad it's working out for you!

Happy Holidays to everyone!!!!

djfrankie

 

[herpboyben]

does the reactor act as a calcium reactor also?

 

[saltydog64]

mj.....

Just a quick thought on the gas thingy......place a short length of tubing over the valve outlet, then when you go to check for gas submerge the open end into a clear container with water to cover the hose end, then open the valve and i bet u will "see" the gas...IMO

O ya.......... MERRY X-MAS to all......

Dick

 

[NCNBilly]

Just a note to say thanks for the pics and build info... We put one together as a project at our reef club meeting and I've since built my own. I just hooked it up since the media arrived about 4 hours ago. I hope this rids my tank of nitrates once and for all!

My only wish is that I'd built one years ago.

 

[tmz]

DJ I've read the whole thread and most of the associated links. Thankyou and the others for your efforts and documentation on this nitrate reduction technique. This is excellent work.

I am in the process of gluing up a reactor based on your design.

I have two questions:

Why is the reactor pressurized(ie why is the output (valved) restricted rather than the input)? I don't understand the principle or dynamics involved.

I believe in one section of this thread there is an indication that the Carrib Sea media is seeded and in another the indication is that it is not. They do note on the container that it is seeded and call it Live Sulfur Media(LSM). Can you clarify this?

Again thankyou for sharing this and patiently making your answers clear and responsive. Happy New Year.

 

[mjpinsky]

TOM...

I understand your questions. I also had the same concerns....how could you feed in x#/gal/hr and only allow for 3-5L/hr output. The reactor should eventually explode from the pressure. The output must be equal to the input. So, I set it up just as you were stating by adjusting the output flow by playing with the input valve...the more input, the more the output and vice-versa.

As for the CaribSea LSM, I am also using it as it was cheaper (got mine through Marinedepot). I did find that it took a bit more sulfur than DJs calculations, and a bit longer for everything to work, but all is going well. (You can always take out some sulfur later if you need to). As long as it works in the end, I don't think it matters what the LSM is "seeded" with.

My reactor (see page 17 of this thread) has been running for about a month now. My Output nitrates are 0 and output nitrites are about 0.3. My tank levels have been going down VERY slowly, but since my levels were so high (I'm an obsessive over feeder) the fact that I can see a difference in my tank levels is great (API level was red-brown to start and is now only a reddish pink -- still high but going in the right direction).

Good luck with your denitrator! Have a good new year!.....marc