DIY Sulfur Denitrator

[NCNBilly]

My reactor has been running since Monday (5 days) and the effluent is showing higher (~ 100ppm based on new Salifert kit) than the tank (~50ppm).

I just started to get some gas buildup from the top, but I'm wondering how that's possible? The media is from Premium Aquatics, and was not rinsed prior to use. Should I be worried? The tank is showing a very slight decrease from last week, although that could be normal testing variance.

 

[tmz]

Marc,
Thanks for the reply. I've valved mine to accommodate either input or output restriction. I know my calcium reactor (which is also a recirculating, slow flow device) is manufactured with control of flow on the output line and works fine that way;but don't know why. I wonder if pressurizing it will: a) make the input pump work harder or b) somehow contribute to gas buildup.I don't think the pressure from a small pump will create enough pressure to damage the pvc or acrylic units but don't see why it's needed.

I have a 550 gal mixed reef system. I have low phosphate thanks to chaetomorpha, gfo and occasional lanthanum chloride but nitrates run about 40ppm. I keep alot of fish and corals and feed well.I want less than 20ppm, preferably less than 10ppm. I've added a second skimmer more than doubling skimming capacity and skim moderately wet , a 30 gallon remote deep sand bed and an extra 30 gallon bin of chaetomorpha with minimal effect on nitrates.So the denitrator is a logical next addition for me.

I will be hooking it up today or tomorrow and will run it in a bin of tank water fed from but not returning to the system during the cycle.

Happy New Year to you as well.

 

[saltydog64]

Tom and NCBilly....

Guys look.... first, there is no any pump your running could ever cause one of things to explode just no way they don't make enough psi to do so...basically I think what happens is the water just "dead heads" against the water colunm, as for the pressure or gas you "see"...that's good, it has nothing to do with the pump pressure...it's the result of the reactions going on in the SR...the conversion of Nitrates to N2 and O2...so on, this is why it's good.

NCBilly...As these reactions are occuring (the development of more and more "good" bacteria) you can and will see higher Nitrates @ the output vs input ( you might even see some Nitrites) this all part of the maturing of the reactor...this will reverse as the unit matures and goes to ZERO.

A final reminder as your units obtain ZERO you must go in to what dj calls 'The maintainance mode" and now you must faithfully check your ALK, because these mentioned reactions make for "acidic discharges"..they acifiy the water...the ARM by it's self will help, but it will not prevent this... so keep an eye on the ALK which go first then the pH....

Good Luck guys..

Dick

 

[tmz]

Thanks Dick.

I know the things you have iterated, they are pretty clear throughout the thread.

I noted myself that pump pressure would not be sufficient to likely casuse a leak. That is pretty obvious. Unless I hooked it to my Iwaki 100.

The questions,however, remain unanswered:

Why is it necessary to pressurize the reactor?or put differently
Why is there a prohibition on controlling the input line vs the output line?

Is Carrib sea media seeded or not? There are contrary statements in the thread.

Just looking for clear facts.

 

[djfrankie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14066235#post14066235 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tmz
The questions,however, remain unanswered:

Why is it necessary to pressurize the reactor?or put differently
Why is there a prohibition on controlling the input line vs the output line?

Is Carrib sea media seeded or not? There are contrary statements in the thread.

Just looking for clear facts.

No theories here just lots of practice.

You will get a better constant drip out of effluent line when the unit is somewhat pressurized. Try for yourself and feel free to post back.

When I called Caribsea a while back and spoke to one of their sales rep the information I got was that the media was not seeded and it will eventually seed itself from the tank's water since the bacteria is always present.

Have they changed that??

I don't know. I will however, be more than happy to make a call for you and find out. It may be pre-seeded now for all I know.

However, if it is facts you're looking for is that the media from Midwest Aquatics, which is preseeded with NBC# 9, will cycle faster.

Let me know if you have any other questions..

and Happy New Year to everyone!!!

djfrankie

 

[djfrankie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14062576#post14062576 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NCNBilly
My reactor has been running since Monday (5 days) and the effluent is showing higher (~ 100ppm based on new Salifert kit) than the tank (~50ppm).

I just started to get some gas buildup from the top, but I'm wondering how that's possible? The media is from Premium Aquatics, and was not rinsed prior to use. Should I be worried? The tank is showing a very slight decrease from last week, although that could be normal testing variance.

Your unit is cycling right now...Congrats!!!

High Nitrites interfere with Nitrate readings at this point. Give it a few days and make sure to degass the unit daily...and please don't touch the effluent drip until you get zero readings

djfrankie

 

[tmz]

Thankyou for your reply. Again good work. I appreciate your efforts. There is a great deal of useful detailed factual information in this thread. It was only these two relatively minor points for which I needed clarification.

Maybe the constant drip thing is why calcium reactors are built that way as well ,a bit of pressure to move the water through the media. I just didn't understand the purpose ;now I do.

I already have the carrib sea media(the "Live Sulfur Media") product. Just wanted to be sure there were no significant problems with it before ordering the Premium Aquatics stuff. Carrib sea makes another product mixed with argonite ,perhaps that one is unseeded but hey claim this one is. Thanks for the offer to call but it's not necessary. I have the information I need.

Happy New Year

 

[cirujano]

Can I build a sulfur denitrater using a phosphate reactor?

 

[NCNBilly]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14067192#post14067192 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by djfrankie
Your unit is cycling right now...Congrats!!!

High Nitrites interfere with Nitrate readings at this point. Give it a few days and make sure to degass the unit daily...and please don't touch the effluent drip until you get zero readings

djfrankie

Sweet! I figured that might be the case. Thanks!

 

[djfrankie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14067759#post14067759 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tmz
Thankyou for your reply. Again good work. I appreciate your efforts. There is a great deal of useful detailed factual information in this thread. It was only these two relatively minor points for which I needed clarification.

Maybe the constant drip thing is why calcium reactors are built that way as well ,a bit of pressure to move the water through the media. I just didn't understand the purpose ;now I do.

I already have the carrib sea media(the "Live Sulfur Media") product. Just wanted to be sure there were no significant problems with it before ordering the Premium Aquatics stuff. Carrib sea makes another product mixed with argonite ,perhaps that one is unseeded but hey claim this one is. Thanks for the offer to call but it's not necessary. I have the information I need.

Happy New Year

Glad to help!

I will call them up on Monday just to check again and will post here as a reference point.

Good luck and let us know how it goes with the build.

djfrankie

 

[djfrankie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14067938#post14067938 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cirujano
Can I build a sulfur denitrater using a phosphate reactor?

Yes, you can.

Check back a few pages back and you'll see detailed pics on a build using a Phosban reactor.

djfrankie

 

[Steve 926]

Just a thought on the suplher media

The Midwest media, Premium Aquatics media, etc, etc, is in a spherical design. it's about the size of a BB ( "you'll shoot your eye out kid" ) & is about 98~99% consistent in size, with little to no fragments. I believe that this design, increase's the flow throughout it for a better culture, & with less chanelling.

Some user's of the Carib Sea LSM, have posted problems ranging from longer cycling, melting media, & the fines from it causing issue's. Other than that, it works just fine
please correct me if I am wrong, don't want to give bad info.

I have done some research on these reactors before building one, & have found (ex Dj) Frankie's theory & design to be right on with this DIY one
Once Again "Kudos to you" Frankie :thumbsup:

I also have noticed that most of the commercial unit$ $old, use the spherical media in their reactors. Midwest seems to be the standard for this, & the others refer to their media being the "Midwest Type Media" included their reactor.
Go figure :idea:

So for what it's worth, my reactor is working well on this theory.

And yes cirujano, you can make one from a Phosban Reactor, with a little alteration to it. this is what I made mine from.
I use 2 of them, 1 for the sulpher, 1 for the aragonite, with an MJ 600 as the rec pump. on a 50 gal reef with a sump.

Hope I haven't ranted on for too long, I'm just an old reefer in many ways :lol:

Steve
:smokin:

 

[NCNBilly]

Anyone experience an issue where you have to turn off the recirc pump to degas? I get a small amount with it running, but lots when I turn it off.

I'm using a 3" reactor, as best I can figure - the gas is trapped at the bottom of the reactor and is escaping to the top through the recirc piping when the pump is off. I've seen air trapped at the bottom of my Ca reactor, so I guess it's possible.

 

[tmz]

Steve 926, From what I've read in the thread the midwest variety of media seems to work very well and seed quickly.It may indeed be better. It is certainly more expensive and may be worth it.

The reactor design outlined in this thread by dj is excellent and relatively inexpensive and easy to build.

In the interest of accuracy and before I trash my LSM,however, I note that the problems with the LSM that I recall reading throughout the thread included:a case where the media was washed down with freshwater first and then cycling time became an issue and another where spit pea type media designed for a vaporizer was used . I just didn't see a post directly related to LSM not working.

 

[saltydog64]

Tom.........

I'm sure dj will chime sooner or later....but sulfur is sulfur, the "only" difference is in the form, of course that becomes a "possible" concern when used in a SR, now having said that, I successfully cycled my unit using LSM and yes it took, for what seemed for ever, BUT and a big but my tank had very high Nitrates, like + 200 ppm to start with. My unit was one of very first as I joined this thread wayyyyyyyyyyy back in the beginning.

My media, the LSM, was right in the middle of the questioning of it's use....even thou @ the time we figured it was "seeded" just to give a little kick in the butt, so to speak, I added NBC # 9 @ the suggestion of dj............and yep it worked.

I have since removed the SR from my tank (for now) as I'm @ ZERO Nitrates (it's been off the tank let's see....since 3:30PM 11/11/2008, good records help the senior memory)

When I inspected the media it looked as good (slighty covered with some minor junk, but clean) as the day it first went in there, as far as I know I never had any flow issues, cann't see thru PVC and once cycling started got lots of gas @ Vent Valve, that is until it approached 0.00ppm then gas dissappeard along with the Nitrates...Just mt 2 cents...

The site for the NBC# 9 is :

http://www.midwestaquatic.com/products.htm#NBC #9

hope is helps in some way...and as a reminder if your Nitrates are over +50 PPM it will or could take longer to cycle but it will....

Dick

 

[tmz]

Thanks Dick,
My nitrates are down to around 30ppm to 40ppm(salifert). About a month ago I added a DSB and another ASM G4 xx skimmer to the system along with another 30 gallon bin of chaeto. These things brought it down from previous 60ppm.It's a large system 575 g with over 40 well fed fish. I want to get them to about 10ppm with the addition of the denitrator.

I will cycle the nitrator without discharging it into the system. If the lsm wont cycle, I'll try the nbc 9 for a boost.

 

[moonyguy]

Just want to update that after 3 weeks of running the denitrator...my nitrates have come down from 50ppm to 5 ppm. The effluent is now reading 0 and is a steady flow. My corals are doing great. New growth tips on my SPS. Thanks for all the help. I might switch to full Zeo later but my next Fish only system will sure have a denitrator.
Vishnu

 

[saltydog64]

moony..............

Nice............now as a reminder keep a close watch on your ALK which will be the first to be effected by lowering it, of course followed by a lowering of pH.....It just seems there is always a trade off, but I guess that's one of the challenges of reef keeping...

 

[moonyguy]

Yup. It went as low as 6.5 but has now stabilized at 7.5-8. I top off with kalk so the ph has been pretty much between 7.9-8.1. I need to lower alk anyway for zeo so it worked good for me in the end. Thanks again. I will keep you all posted.

 

[customcolor]

if i have some tank water thats in a canister filter, that i used for algie cleaning, and it was sitting for like 3 months now (trust me it realy stinks!) can i use that water to jump start a denitrator?