DIY Sulfur Denitrator

[druckle]

BADES is used world wide for removing nitrate. It is used for decades in public aquaria. The process is thoroughly investigated the past decade.
We just follow the guidelines of Marc Longouet and use a reactor with internal flow instead of a tube reactor. There is nothing special about the system. We just keep the reactor NOT annoxic and increase the flow as necessary. And use a reactor that is big enough!

We did a lot of research about BADES to understand why and how. A sulfur denitrator has a bad reputation and we tried to find out why, as a lot of systems are working fine for decades. The main reason is that a lot of users use it as it is a batch reactor when it is in fact a continues flow bio-film reactor. Most users keep the reactor <0.5ppm DO because that is the ideal environment for denitrification in batch reactors. This makes the reactors vulnerable for mismanagement. The results of mismanagement have been published causing the bad reputation. The use of anoxic reactors is very restricted due to the limited flow. And indeed, a sulphur reactor that is kept anoxic may cause problems when managed incorrectly and only for this reason such a reactor can not be recommended to be used in a life support system.

We use it as a biofilm reactor. Within a biofilm denitrification takes place in normal aerobe conditions. The denitrification rate is controlled by the flow and the nitrate level. This makes that the reactor is able for simultaneous nitrification and mixotrophe denitrification.
The composition of the biofilm depends of the influent and the substrate on which it grows, in this case sulphur.

All details of a BADESS are in our wiki Makazi Baharini and will become available when the translation is finished.

How long has this translation been in process?

 

[Belgian Anthias]

How long has this translation been in process?

A long time, first attempt in 2012 or even 2011 I think, but not by me.
The problem is getting the rights for publication and as most authors do not answer one may become discouraged.
On all Wiki pages we will open up for members all references can also be consulted full text. It is the aim not to use references which can not be consulted by the reader. For this reason pages and papers are all rights reserved to the authors.

 

[druckle]

That is discouraging. A technology seems to be touted for it's advantages but the details of the technology are essentially secret to the potentially interested audience.

I think it would be more effective to support the technology by publishing a useful description of a proper operating guide for the range of potential applications than citing it's benefits without describing the methods proper conditions of operation.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

That is discouraging. A technology seems to be touted for it's advantages but the details of the technology are essentially secret to the potentially interested audience.

I think it would be more effective to support the technology by publishing a useful description of a proper operating guide for the range of potential applications than citing it's benefits without describing the methods proper conditions of operation.

There are no secrets as the BADES process is a natural process and all the information is available.

As I am not allowed to publish a photo of someone without permission of the person concerned, I am not allowed to publish a text and conclusions written by someone else without permission. For scientific and approved papers publication rights are in most cases protected by the data base holder and publisher and available for a fee. Some are available for free.

The methods conditions and operation have been discussed in a few threads on this forum and are explained and described in detail available in our wiki. We are able to answer most if not all questions.
A general users guide is available sins the publications of Marc Longouet in 1998 http://recifal.fr/chimie-de-laquarium-recifal/ and discussed by Delbeek and Sprung 2005-3 The reef aquarium Science, Art, and Technology Volume three blz 277 . We used this guide and adjusted it to our findings resulting in the BADESSystem explained in detail. A users guide is available for those who are only interested in the results including the basic knowledge necessary to operate and manage a BADES-reactor.
Most of what we know is based on the experiments, conclusions and publications of others used as references and included in the bibliography. All information will be available for consultation all rights reserved to the authors and publishers of the included articles.

 

[druckle]

I have registered and logged into Makazi Baharini and attempted multiple times to view it's contents and each time I get the following notice.

Access denied
Sorry, you do not have enough rights to continue.

If there is no secret I would appreciate knowing how to view the site.

 

[dartier]

I have registered and logged into Makazi Baharini and attempted multiple times to view it's contents and each time I get the following notice.

Access denied
Sorry, you do not have enough rights to continue.

If there is no secret I would appreciate knowing how to view the site.

Wow, you found it? I was pretty sure it was along the lines of Fight Club ... :hmm2:

Dennis

 

[druckle]

Wow, you found it? I was pretty sure it was along the lines of Fight Club ... :hmm2:

Dennis

Passing strange to list a site as a source for information that is restricted from public viewing. If there is no information suitable for the public on the site then I would think one might assume that the site is not a source for public information and would not be listed as a source of information about the technology.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Passing strange to list a site as a source for information that is restricted from public viewing. If there is no information suitable for the public on the site then I would think one might assume that the site is not a source for public information and would not be listed as a source of information about the technology.

As I said the wiki was made for personal use only. The fact that you could not enter it proves everything works fine.! Kidding!
As I said we will open up the wiki in English when the translation is finished. There is the issue that the browser logs you in to the English pages automatically so we changed that so you should be able to read some of the pages we opened up now.
There is also something wrong with the registration page because we did not receive the registrations. Normally you should have had the password to log in in your email after the registration. We will look it up.

 

[Kaera]

What would be a good amount of water to feed into a sulfur denitrator system per hour?

 

[Belgian Anthias]

What would be a good amount of water to feed into a sulfur denitrator system per hour?

Flow depends of the amount of nitrate to remove daily ( the daily nitrate production) and the nitrate level of the influent. Max flow depends of the volume of the reactor and the amount of sulphur used. When the nitrate level descends flow must increase to be able to remove the same amount of nitrate. To lower the nitrate level of the system a bit more as is the daily nitrate production must be removed daily.
Normal flow may be 2l-5l/h/L sulphur.
A BADES reactor is able to treat the total system volume once to twice a day ( 1% reactor) This reactor will be able to remove 1ppm to 2ppm nitrate daily while keeping the nitrate level below 2 ppm. This way one can obtain full control over the nitrate level and the nitrate removal rate and manage the nitrate level as desired.

When full control over the nitrate removal rate is not necessary BADES can be used without a reactor in a bio-filter or sump using activated sulphur, Simultaneous nitrification and denitrification. ( BADES bio-filter)

 

[schabiazabi]

Most users of a sulphur denitrator use it as it was a denitrator based on heterotopic denitrification. Flow is restricted to keep the reactor anoxic. This may work fine at high nitrate levels as high amounts of nitrate can be removed at a limited flow. Problems may be faced when the level drops as due to the limited flow not enough nitrate can be processed for removing the daily production.
When following the guidelines of Mark Longouet the result will be a reactor that will work fine at low nitrate levels. Flow may increase till 10x the volume of the reactor. This means that the reactor is not kept anoxic.
A BADESSystem is not more than a system where a BADES biofilm reactor is incorporated. Such a reactor will still have denitrification activity at a normal DO level and will work fine with an effluent still containing <2ppm DO which means that a lot of nitrate can be removed at a very low nitrate level. Everything was explained several times.

Belgian Anthias, I finally had to reply to your posts. There is about gazillion posts by you on the Badass filter, but to be honest one can sum all your posts into one sentence: Nitrification and Denitrifcation is required in order for the full nitrogen cycle to complete. There is nothing else and there never ever will be. You are holding the less informed (not everyone wants a PHD in chemistry) reefers hostage with those French articles, broken links, weak descriptions.

There is nothing wrong with "Most users" that use sulphur denitrator as if is was a denitrator based on heterotopic denitrification. Just because they don't have an explicit chamber for aerobic nitrification attached to the filter, it does not mean there is no other filter in the tank that produces Nitrates. As a matter of a fact they over produce it They can regulate flow on their denitrification "side" and up the flow if they wish just like you do.

Now I hate to do this to you, but I can actually write this: There is no need for any kind of nitrification filter, and you are still going to have tons of Nitrate if you overstock a fish tank. And if you keep only one tiny fish the Nitrates will go down. Nitrates are directly proportional to the amount of food source in the habitat. That means your nitrification chamber will not produce more Nitrates, so more can be exported. What it will do is, it will localize the Nitrates production, which in the Denitrator system is not required. It is required in the Bio Pellet systems, because it is exported out of the tank (toilet).

Your system would be required only in case the tank has ammonia or nitrite.

I have spent days on this Nitrate research for my next reef advantage, and I studied many water waste management systems. I learned only 2 new things:

1. Denitrification is way better than Bio Pellets for reef tanks, due to removal of positively charged H+ ions.

2. Anaerobic bacteria actually prefers oxygen as it's number 1 food source, and only in case there is very little oxygen, it will start consuming other food sources.

 

[schabiazabi]

Just to extend the topic a bit, to make myself even more clear. Do you know why people always fight Nitrates? Because aquarium is one big toilet.

But there is a one million dollar question for you, do you know why people fight Nitrates, but do not fight Ammonia or Nitrites? For a simple reason: OUR tanks are extremely AEROBIC when relatively speaking. The ANAEROBIC part of the ocean is missing. In the reef tank we have it as a DSB which becomes saturated (toilet) after a while and it works in reverse.

So adding denitrator based on heterotopic denitrification (ANAEROBIC part of the ocean) is exactly what a reef tank needs. It is this ANAEROBIC, and ANOXIC section of the ocean that is the exporter of the toilet.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Just to extend the topic a bit, to make myself even more clear. Do you know why people always fight Nitrates? Because aquarium is one big toilet.

But there is a one million dollar question for you, do you know why people fight Nitrates, but do not fight Ammonia or Nitrites? For a simple reason: OUR tanks are extremely AEROBIC when relatively speaking. The ANAEROBIC part of the ocean is missing. In the reef tank we have it as a DSB which becomes saturated (toilet) after a while and it works in reverse.

So adding denitrator based on heterotopic denitrification (ANAEROBIC part of the ocean) is exactly what a reef tank needs. It is this ANAEROBIC, and ANOXIC section of the ocean that is the exporter of the toilet.

Denitrification ( heterotropic and autotropic) takes place in aerobic tanks every where a biofilm is formed or and in low oxygen zones ( o.a. sandbottom, stone) Oxygen minimum zones are created everywhere the free oxygen is consumed more quickly as it can be replaced. Otherwise it would not be possible to maintain an aquarium at all. Heteretropic denitrification is a lot more effective as is autotrophic denitrification but needs an organic food source. For heterotropic denitrification the foodsource it is the limiting factor. In some reef aquaria also phosphate. In fact, an aquarium ( the water) is aerobic but a lot of processes take place in low oxygen conditions ( o.a.within bio-films) where sulphur plays an important role in recycling,
Also in the oceans Sulphur is a most important factor in the nitrogen- and carbon cycle as are anaerobic processes. Bilions of tons of sulfur bacteria as there are Thiomargarita and Thioplaka spp can be found on the bottom of oceans.
The sulfhur provides an unlimited foodsource for autotrophe denitrification feeding only those bacteria we want to cultivate which is not the case if we try to feed heterotrophs.

BADES removes ammonia and nitrite by simultaneous nitrification and mixotrophe (heterotrophe and autotrophe) denitrification just by putting sulphur in a bio or sump. No need for a degree in chemics which I do not have.
When one want to have full control over the nitrate level in the system a BADES bio-film reactor can be used. This way the nitrogen cycle can be closed in a zero emission aquaculture system or aquarium.
Ammonia and nitrite is removed without nitrate can accumulate in the aquarium system.
Does this mean I have earned the million dollar?

 

[schabiazabi]

^ I finally found what you were talking about.

I need to read about this more, and I will post about it here.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

^ I finally found what you were talking about.

I need to read about this more, and I will post about it here.

We made a nitrate removal system based on the findings and instructions of Longouet and Co more than a decade in the past. It worked fine. As a lot of sulfhur denitrators discussed on different fora where not functioning fine we tried to find out why our system did what it was intended tot do without any problems and could easily be managed and other systems did not. That is where our investigation started. We found out why our sulphur-denitrator worked fine. We just had not tried to keep the reactor anoxic and increased the flow in accordance with the nitrate level to remove the daily ammonia production daily and as the reactor was big enough ( we just followed the 1% rule) a healthy biofilm was developed on the sulphur which did all the work. We had made our selves a BADES biofilm system without knowing. I had that time no idea about why and how it did what it did. We just had followed the instructions of Longouet and Co. Due to my investigation and research during the past decennial I now understand also why and how. Most of our research we have written down in a wiki we called Makazi Baharini including our research about what we thought we would need to build a big natural looking mixed reef aquarium, high enough for Anthias to show there natural behaviour.

If you want to read about BADES you may access our wiki which is written in Dutch but most original references are in English, some in French. Some pages are partially translated to English.

You have to registrar and you will then receive a password to enter the wiki.

Information about BADES you may find at

http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku.php?id=badess:theorie

As this is in fact a thread about a DIY project maybe this is not the right place for postings about BADES.

 

[schabiazabi]

OK, so I read for hours about Biofilm reactors, simultaneous nitrification and denitrification. There is not a single fact anywhere stating your BADES reactor is more efficient (or any different) than the DIY Sulfur Denitrator in this thread.

As a matter of a fact there is no such thing as a BADES reactor. Yes, you can build a single chamber reactor where you have aerobic and anaerobic sections with biofilm on the media, but so what. It has never been proven that putting both processes into the single chamber is more efficient than having separate nitrification and denitrification process.

When it comes to biofilms that you talk about. That is great, but they exist in the DIY Sulfur Denitrator as much as they exist in any another sulfur based fluidized reactors.

I actually do not see your point at all. I gave you some doubt as I needed to read more about biofilms, just to make sure I understand you correctly. BADES can not be anything new since biofilm exists in DIY Sulfur Reactor as well. The only thing that comes to my mind is a marriage of Bio Pellet reactor with DIY Sulfur Denitrator. The output of Bio Pellets is the input of the DIY Sulfur Reactor. That seems to be the most efficient nitrate removal in wastewater management systems.

One more thing. Reading about all these bio film reactors made me realize few things:

1. DSB are outright stupid and inefficient.
2. Nitrates in the aquarium mean that you either have an incorrectly designed tank, or you are overstocking.

 

[canada55]

CLEANING Sulfur Denitrator

CLEANING Sulfur Denitrator

reviewed your more descriptive post of the design of your reactor....very impressed!!!! the reason i resisted using aragonite was the need to open the reactor to add more aragonite occasionally, your design may solve this problem? also if you decide to run reactors 1 and 2 with sulfur, one reactor could be cleaned each year, never having to reseed/restart the system. I believe my reactor will need a cleaning at some point and a reseeding; your design could run indefinitely? i have thought about these 2 issues over the last year, your system may have solved them?

One change you might consider, on reactor #3, if output #1 were placed on the degasing valve this might allow gas to escape with the effluent, only if the recirculating pump is strong enough to push the N2 through reactors 1 and 2, however? I would also consider output #2's flow as a regular part of the operation, and not just in emergency! You might consider stopping bio-pellets, when i stopped carbon dosing may sulfur reactor preformence improved, however, not sure why? i'm very excited about your design, keep it going!!!

Been a little over a year since I fired up my reactor, and it has been work flawlessly until lately, been getting some wild swings in my ORP. I have tried to adjust flow to correct problem but I still get wild swings in ORP. Snice I have never cleaned it in over a year, I think it is time to do so,,,,will post results of cleaning once I'm back up and running and stabalized..

 

[Belgian Anthias]

OK, so I read for hours about Biofilm reactors, simultaneous nitrification and denitrification. There is not a single fact anywhere stating your BADES reactor is more efficient (or any different) than the DIY Sulfur Denitrator in this thread.

As a matter of a fact there is no such thing as a BADES reactor. Yes, you can build a single chamber reactor where you have aerobic and anaerobic sections with biofilm on the media, but so what. It has never been proven that putting both processes into the single chamber is more efficient than having separate nitrification and denitrification process.

When it comes to biofilms that you talk about. That is great, but they exist in the DIY Sulfur Denitrator as much as they exist in any another sulfur based fluidized reactors.

I actually do not see your point at all. I gave you some doubt as I needed to read more about biofilms, just to make sure I understand you correctly. BADES can not be anything new since biofilm exists in DIY Sulfur Reactor as well. The only thing that comes to my mind is a marriage of Bio Pellet reactor with DIY Sulfur Denitrator. The output of Bio Pellets is the input of the DIY Sulfur Reactor. That seems to be the most efficient nitrate removal in wastewater management systems.

One more thing. Reading about all these bio film reactors made me realize few things:

1. DSB are outright stupid and inefficient.
2. Nitrates in the aquarium mean that you either have an incorrectly designed tank, or you are overstocking.

In any aerobic biofilm nitrification and denitrification can take place simultaneously. In oxic ( aerobic environment) conditions the outer layers of the biofilm (in contact with the water culumn) will consume the free oxygen in such a way that at a dept of only +- 0.3 to 0.5 mm denitrification can takes place. This is a normal natural proces that takes place in all aquaria and wich we use in a BADES bio-fiter or BADES biofilm reactor.
For a BADES biofilm reactor a reactor as explained in this DIY thread can be used as any seawater save container that can be closed water tight can be used for that purpose. The only difference is that we do not try to keep the reactor anoxic ( below 0.5 ppm DO) In an anoxic reactor the flow is limited to keep the reactor anoxic and the cultivated biofilm is not able to reduce enough oxygen. This way it may not be possible to enter enough water to remove the daily nitrate production at the low nitrate level desired. A BADES biofilm reactor is able to remove at least 1 ppm to 2 ppm ammonia daily while keeping the nitrate level below 1ppm, at least 20 times more as an anoxic kept reactor of the same volume, Also, an anoxic sulphur reactor can remove nitrate and nitrite but ammonia present will not be removed.
One or two chambers? One or two reactors? it is a decision the user must make.


BADES is an acronym. A BADESS is a closed zero emission bio-system in which BADES is incorporated and of which the working is tested, published and used.

We had a project to build a mixed reef aquarium showing the reef as one can see it when one swims above it. This means a lot of fishes in a small area combined with sps. We want to show Anthias and other reef fishes in there natural environment in a way they can show there natural behaviour in group and not as individuals. This is not possible in a low nutrient reef aquarium. Choices have to be maid
We could connect the display to a very large water reserve and making it very expensive, we would need a lot of space to store it. Even then we would probably need bio-filters.
Our solution was incorporation of BADES in the bio-system which will increase the possible bio-load of the system as desired.

 

[schabiazabi]

^ Got it. So you simply flow "normal" rate of water through the sulfur media and that allows you to build up enough biofilm to produce nitrification/denitrification 20x greater? Interesting. I guess it's not that hard to try it out.

The fluidized biofilm wastewater management systems never reported 20x greater denitrification. If you read about those systems you quickly realize there is nothing special about biofilm reactors. What you are saying is different. You are simply saying to flow the water through the media in an oxic style and allow the inner depth of biofilm perform denitrification. Worth a try.

The BADES/biofilm reactor works with sulfur only right? In other words, 20x greater denitrification is attributed to sulfur biofilm, and it will not grow as successful on other media?

 

[Belgian Anthias]

^ Got it. So you simply flow "normal" rate of water through the sulfur media and that allows you to build up enough biofilm to produce nitrification/denitrification 20x greater? Interesting. I guess it's not that hard to try it out.

The fluidized biofilm wastewater management systems never reported 20x greater denitrification. If you read about those systems you quickly realize there is nothing special about biofilm reactors. What you are saying is different. You are simply saying to flow the water through the media in an oxic style and allow the inner depth of biofilm perform denitrification. Worth a try.

The BADES/biofilm reactor works with sulfur only right? In other words, 20x greater denitrification is attributed to sulfur biofilm, and it will not grow as successful on other media?

Not at all. Heterotroph denitrification is a lot more effective as is autotroph denitrification but needs an organic food source. Elemental sulphur is used as a base and substratum to grow a biofilm containing autotroph sulphur bacteria on the surface. b

The flow rate is not unlimited as we want to have control over the nitrate removal rate. The nitrate removal rate is controlled by the flow in accordance with the nitrate level. The reactor must be big enough! to handle the amount of oxygen entered. Once in balance with the system a BADESS is self-regulating.
At very high flow control over the nitrate removal rate is lost but the reactor will still remove ammonia and nitrate. When the flow is to high the biofilm may detach from the substrate and or the erosion may become to high to be replaced in time.

A sulphur denitrator ( with closed loop) managed following the guidelines of Longouet will remove 10 to 20 times more nitrate compared to a sulphur reactor of the same volume that is kept anoxic, this at low nitrate levels. At high to very nitrate levels the results become more equalized . An anoxic kept sulphur-reactor will not remove ammonia.
To lower the nitrate level only a bit more as the daily production must be removed daily. At a high nitrate level the flow may be very limited to achieve that. At a low nitrate level a high flow is necessary to remove the same production. The water contains +- 6 ppm free oxygen which at some point makes it impossible to keep a reactor anoxic at the flow needed for removing the production.

The best results are achieved when the sulphur is mixed with +- 30% Calcium Carbonate media (CC) and used in batch reactors. We use continues flow reactors.

BADES should be used in combination with a calcium carbonate source.
it is known that the best results are realized when mixing the sulphur with the calcium carbonate(CC) media. In seawater addition of CC will neutralize the effect of nitrification and autotroph denitrification on the alkalinity and produce some calcium.
oyster grit, aragonite, a commercial product for calcium reactors? One dissolves more easily as the other but it will certainly clog together after some time. If a lot of ammonia is removed daily chalk may be produced. Sulphate precipitates. This means that the calcium carbonate source has to be replaced ore cleaned regularly meanwhile removing the precipitated sulphate. In the case it is mixed with the sulphur we have to replace everything, certainly when it is clogged together. This way the activated sulphur is lost.
In a reef aquarium the ammonia production is very low compared to a commercial aqua-culture system. Must the Sulphur be mixed with the CCmedia ?
One can use one reactor with two chambers or two separate reactors?
In a BADES biofilm reactor we want to cultivate a healthy biofilm without clogging the media and the reactor, which will occur when an organic food source is added We do not want a biofilm growing on the CCmedia as the contact with the water column will be lost.
We prefer to use separate reactors.

For to be used in a BADES bio-filter we use activated sulphur pellets mixed with 50% CC to make the sulphur rolls.

We advice to use activated sulphur ( sulphur that was conditioned).