DIY Sulfur Denitrator

[Isayso]

Never mind...I think I found the answr
Just google it and this pop up

On this site

[/URL]

Once the nitrates are clearly higher by one color chart than the tank increase the drip rate to 80 drips a minute. Let run for 24 hours and retest. Once again repeat this instruction and the next drip rate is 120. Repeat instruction and next rate is a stream.

After you have set the denitrator to a steady stream, all you have to do is just get used to what it consumes. Meaning how much alkalinity to add to make sure your alkalinity stays at the parameters you like.

 

[Nanook]

Never mind...I think I found the answr
Just google it and this pop up

On this site

[/URL]

This sounds like poppycock to me.

You are measuring "higher nitrate" because your reactor is producing "nitrite" which causes a false positive nitrate reading. You want to start this at a drop per second and wait until nitrite and nitrate are zero out of the reactor. When they are zero, you can "slowly" increase to two drops per second and wait until you get zero readings again. Increasing the flow rate too much will lead to nitrite or nitrate in the effluent and that means you need to slow it down again. These take many weeks to tune in properly most of the time, so slow and easy and you will get there, but be patient and make those adjustments slowly As you can tell, I have had a lot of practice messing with these things and I also attended the denitrator school of hard luck

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Never mind...I think I found the answr
Just google it and this pop up

On this site

[/URL]

Normally you have to measure some nitrite in the beginning because the de-nitrification cyclus is not completed due to not enough bacteria. Speeding up your en-fluent is not a good idea. Following Nanouk's advise seems a better solution to me.

 

[tryingsalt]

I have built one 2 months ago .When starting these up you do have to stick to the 1 to 2 drops per second guide line. If you try to push it you will get that higher Nitrate reading. I had the same problem. You just have to be patient. After 2 months I'm only dripping up to 30 ml a minute. I did test my Nitrites when Nitrates reading off chart and new Nitrite test kit read zero..???. I had just dripped into bucket till SD output read zero Nitrates.

 

[Isayso]

thanks to you all guys
i did slow down the dpm and im reading 10 ppm right now of course this is out of the
SD

 

[Isayso]

I had the same problem. You just have to be patient. After 2 months I'm only dripping up to 30 ml a minute.

Hi there that means that you increased gradually the dripping till you reached
the 600 drops per minute ( 1 ml =20 drops X 30 mls = 600 drops ) = a little stream?
thanks

 

[Tigé21v]

....I only use fluidized reactors to eliminate the possibility of clogging ....Before the SD I have a fluidized sand filter to complete the nitrification cycle and to consume oxygen before the water enters the SD. This improves the working of the SD.....

A couple of questions regarding your setup-
How large of a sand filter are you using?
With the size of your system, what size SD reactor are you running? Does the diameter of the SD reactor have an impact on its effectiveness ( does a 4" reactor filled with a gallon of media work better than a 6" reactor filled with a gallon of media)?
Do you have each stage (sand filter, SD reactor, PO4 reactor, ARM) set up to recirculate?
Have you measured the difference of the effluent's ph?
The amount of sulfur you recommend is substantially greater than what is usually suggested.
Is this to allow for greater ease in getting it dialed in, or for quicker results?
Seems as if most recommendations are to remove a portion of the sulfur media once the nitrates are under control, but you recommend not removing the media , but increasing the reactor's infeed? I'm guessing when the nitrates reach zero, you need to increase the reactor's infeed substantially? And, once the tank's nitrates reach zero, do you keep increasing the reactor's infeed until you start getting NO3 readings from the effluent, then reduce the flow a little?

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Some answers

Some answers

A couple of questions regarding your setup-
How large of a sand filter are you using?

My BIO has +- 30 liter +- 8 gal of sand. I use sand because it is very cheep. My first system was based on the advise of Frank De Graaf. This was in 1972. The system was based on the bio, a trickle filter in that time. Because of the expense water was changed only when really necessary because of very high nitrate levels. Our big problem was eliminating nitrate build up; The SD solves this problem. I still use a sand filter because I want to be sure the nitrification cycle is completed and ammonium and nitrite is eliminated as soon as possible. The rector is fluidized by the system pump with a rate over of +- 3000l/h and is installed after a aqua medic flotor 5000. The SD is seeded with BIO filtered water which is low on oxygen

With the size of your system, what size SD reactor are you running? Does the diameter of the SD reactor have an impact on its effectiveness ( does a 4" reactor filled with a gallon of media work better than a 6" reactor filled with a gallon of media)?

I advise 1% sulfur( 100 gal system 1 gal sulfur) with a working en-fluent between one to five times the amount of sulfur per hour.
My system ( 6000l) has 30l of sulfur ( 0,5%) and for the moment a stable en-fluent of 120l/h for 0 nitrate output. This don't mean that the system has 0 nitrate. The system is never without nitrate because we want some live support isn't it?
A SD should always be fluidized to avoid clogging, so size does not matter. If not I would advise the 4" because I want the fresh water to be oxygen free as soon as possible. Rather smaller and higher than the opposite, flow from bottom to top.

Do you have each stage (sand filter, SD reactor, PO4 reactor, ARM) set up to recirculate?

Yes

Have you measured the difference of the effluent's ph?

Yes, I have constant monitoring. The en-fluent is degassed and aerated after the calcium-reactor to obtain normal till slightly higher system PH.

The amount of sulfur you recommend is substantially greater than what is usually suggested.
Is this to allow for greater ease in getting it dialed in, or for quicker results?

The ease of manipulating the output and avoiding the risk of uncompleted DE-nitrification.

Seems as if most recommendations are to remove a portion of the sulfur media once the nitrates are under control, but you recommend not removing the media , but increasing the reactor's infeed? I'm guessing when the nitrates reach zero, you need to increase the reactor's infeed substantially? And, once the tank's nitrates reach zero, do you keep increasing the reactor's infeed until you start getting NO3 readings from the effluent, then reduce the flow a little?

Why do we need the sulfur? If there is 0 nitrate the 2 types of anaerobe bacteria we need will feed on the sulfur and produce a small amount of sulfate which will meanly be bounded by the calcium media. A normal system will never be without nitrate.
Your guesswork proves you understand the process. The higher the turn over rate the more stable your system will be.When the flow rate gets to high, nitrite can be produced due to uncompleted DE-nitrification. This risk is a lot higher with a small amount of sulfur. I have had a flow rate of 10 x the amount of sulfur without problems but brought it down to provoke more calcification.
Why removing sulfur from an established system?

 

[Isayso]

up dates
thanks to you all guys I did follow the one drip per second and the increase accordingly
im now at very fast drip almost a lil stream..

But a dummy question
when you bleed the reactor from the top valve?
is it better to set it a slow drip?
thanks

 

[Tigé21v]

up dates

...But a dummy question
when you bleed the reactor from the top valve?
is it better to set it a slow drip?
thanks

Someone chime in if i am wrong, but I believe you are only bleeding any air (nitrogen) the reactor may have produced. So no need to leave it open once the air has escaped.

 

[tonythefish]

I have a Midwest unit that has done a great job for me < .5 Nitrates . I get a sulfur smell with very high drip rates 8 drips per second over time . So from reading it sounds like a good idea for me is to get the Nitrates down ( what I have now ) and then take out some of the sulfur so I can match what my tank is producing with a normal drip rate . ? Also I would like more info on controlling these with a ORP probe any good links ?

 

[Isayso]

good idea?

good idea?

Hi all was looking at the reactor and thinking the way it works
right there I had an idea...I have around 20-30 feet of tubing,

If I install it before the reactor..it will keep the water longer with not contact with oxygen then it will go inside the SD will this work Better? than the single SD?
what is your opinion on this?
here is a sketch

 

[Isayso]

Anyone? The tubing idea came up after I red about the fluidazed sand. That take mostly if the oxygen before it goes in the SD reactor
In the old Coil denitrator the tubing was coiled inside the pipe for the pourpose of depleting oxygen ..
Soo I'm pretty sure it will work even with the Sulfur Denitrator

 

[Belgian Anthias]

some questions?

some questions?

I get a sulfur smell with very high drip rates 8 drips per second over time . So from reading it sounds like a good idea for me is to get the Nitrates down ( what I have now ) and then take out some of the sulfur so I can match what my tank is producing with a normal drip rate . ? Also I would like more info on controlling these with a ORP probe any good links ?

Sulfur smell? Do you mean a rotten egg smell? This is not normal with high drip rates. This means probably your media is clogged and the water is flowing true a channel and not mixing with the media.
Please explain why you think you should remove sulfur to match your system.Did you start with more than 1% sulfur?
I do not understand how de-nitrification influences ORP?

 

[Belgian Anthias]

coil de-nitrator

coil de-nitrator

Anyone? The tubing idea came up after I red about the fluidazed sand. That take mostly if the oxygen before it goes in the SD reactor
In the old Coil denitrator the tubing was coiled inside the pipe for the pourpose of depleting oxygen ..
Soo I'm pretty sure it will work even with the Sulfur Denitrator

Why de coil de-nitrator is not widely used? because it is very difficult to stabilize and very sensible to drip rate. A lot of problems to avoid nitrite or sulfite.
For the purpose to lower oxygen it could be used but I would make the tube not to long to avoid all oxygen is consumed. I never tried it because I find it to risky. The oxygen is consumed by bacteria. The risk that they die off is considerable, producing sulfite.
If you find the correct length for the tube you have to change it when you lower the en-fluent I think.
If you try this out I am very interested in the results.

 

[Isayso]

SD up dates

SD up dates

well I did it
I built a new feed for the SD
and I coiled 25 feet of tubing before the reactor..
it is connected with the J quest fitting so it will take only minutes to disconnect it...
I nstalled this morning and so far drip is constant.. about the bacteria you are right if die off occurs it will produce sulfite..
so I dont think that 25 feet is enough to bring it to 0 oxygen but it may be lower than normal before reaching the reactor :love2:

what do you think ????
Im positive that it will work the tubing its not long enough to develope lots of bacteria..
:artist:

 

[Dave & Monica]

I don't see the value of the long tube, that's just me.

Tonythefish had a good point/topic I would like to bring up.

I had to rebuild the sulfur reactor due to craftsmanship, it started to leak. I was smelling so much sulfur, and the output was a steady thin steam. Slowing down the drip rate meant more pressure inside the reactor = more leaking and more sulfur smell.

So I just put this back on line today, started with full on to build up the bacteria within the reactor. Tomorrow I will go down to one drip per second, and measure NO3 out of the effluent on Wed evening. All goes well, it should be cycled by this time next week.

Over several months, I had issues with algae building up within the reactor. I think once this brings NO3 down, you need to slow down the drip rate, and not leave it steaming. I'm going to try that in a few weeks.

 

[Dave & Monica]

Tonythefish - From my notes, there was a guy named Carlo, on njreefers.org that covers the ORP settings and setup for a sulfur reactor. Since I don't have an orp monitor, never read up on it. Good luck

 

[Isayso]

I don't see the value of the long tube, that's just me.

s.

I just tested again zero nitrates coming out of SD steady 120-150 DPS
All this in a very short time (24h )
Can you imagine if just adding the tubing will increase the performance
Of the SD ?
As mentioned the tubing it is connected with. JQ fiTting so just .minutes to disconnect it
I will keep testing Just fir fun

 

[Belgian Anthias]

I do not understand the connection between ORP readings and the working of a SD reactor.
Can someone help me out here.