Do NOT use ammonia reducers during Copper Treatment

[jjencek]

I was using ionic Copper for my QT. My ammonia has slowly increased. I figured I would lower it with AmGuard (I also tried ClorAm-X on a different day).

When I measured my copper levels using Hanna checker, I was surprised that the copper level measured higher.

Then I started to investigate and this is what I found on the SeaChem site:

AmGuard is a reducing agent so we do not recommend using it together with copper sulfate as there is potential the copper will be converted to a more toxic form... Yes, it also applies for Cupramine.

 

[bertoni]

Yes, basically all of the ammonia reducers are going to have that effect. Water changes still work, but that's about it.

 

[Dr. Reef]

Never use ammonia reducer with copper treatment. It will not just show false readings on a copper test, it can also make water toxic by breaking the bonds of safe copper to toxic.
You can always do water changes with new water having the same copper level. Or you can buy bacteria in bottle like fritz or dr tim etc and dose that keeping ammonia at bay.

 

[jjencek]

I do have bacteria populated BIO BALLS in the QT. I did notice that copper seemed to limit the BIO BALLS to compare to just before I added copper.

I never considered adding bacteria. Worth trying - as long as it does not limit the copper treatment.

 

[bertoni]

Copper seems to be hard on a lot of organisms, and reports of reduced ammonia filtration are quite common. Bottled bacteria shouldn't have anything in them that'd cause problem for copper.

 

[jjencek]

Ok, so I used BACTO Blend by Fauna Marin to add bacteria.

My copper number went up again. It could be just testing problem, but it is a weird coincidence.

I will contact Fauna Marin to see if they have any recommendations.

Until then, I will stick to water changes.

 

[jjencek]

Here an answer from Fauna Marin:

Thank you for your request. Our bacto blend bacteria do not react with copper at all.

So there must be another reason for this behavior.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Best regards,
Yves Dewitz
Live Sales Manager

 

[bertoni]

I would expect that to be correct. I am not sure what is happening with your tank. What was the change?

 

[scuzy]

I read that humblefish tried coppersafe with prime with no issues. Although thats chileate copper and not ionic copper.


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[jjencek]

I would expect that to be correct. I am not sure what is happening with your tank. What was the change?

The change was from 0.197 ppm to 0.250 ppm (measured twice with two different Hanna tubes). I did not see any stress on the fish (pair of Cardinals). I stopped adding anything.

I cleaned all my tubes and redid it next day again. It measured 0.160 ppm next day. I don't want to experiment too much with the fish in it. I am happy it is back to normal and the fish is doing fine.

I think, without any proof, that it had something to do with the tests. I know that Hanna does give you false positive results with some products. Several months ago I have offered to a local rep in Europe to help them identify the false positive interactions, but they were not interested.

 

[bertoni]

Hmm, I don't know how accurate the test kits are, but that's a significant change.