Dried Live Rock No Ammonia

[skp]

Hi,

I have about 35 pounds of rock that was live in my tank for 4 years. I had to tear the tank down because I had to move away for a few years and I put the rock in a Rubbermaid tub in the basement of my mother in-law's with a powerhead and left it to cook. The tub was mostly covered but because of the powerhead cord, the cover wasn't a perfect seal. I came back to visit after 6 months and the rock looked the same but cleaner but the powerhead had died and so I took the powerhead out. I just left the rock in the tub with no circulation. I came back 2 years later and all the water had evaporated but the rock was still moist. I covered up the tub and sealed the tub with a plastic bag and put it away. Another 6 months later I have my new setup ready and I have the rock (still moist) in my new tank, 43 gallons of fresh saltwater (DD h2ocean mixed to 1.024) and 20 pounds of live sand. I am not running the water through the overflow. I just have the display partly filled and the water is being circulated with an mp40. There should still be some die off left on the rock right? The cloudy water totally cleared up after just one day and I can see some organic material in the water column. I see a lot of vermetid snail tubes, pineapple sponges and feather duster tubes on the rock as well as a little bit of turf algae that has turned white. The problem is that it has been 4 days and I am not getting any ammonia or nitrate readings. I just started dosing microbactor7 last night and I put a small live rock (totally clean) about the size of an avocado covered in coralline that I got from the LFS just to seed the coraline.

Is it possible that the dead organic material on the rock isn't producing ammonia because it is too old? Or is it possible that since the rock was still moist the bacteria deep in the rock was still alive? I'm completely puzzled..I thought I would get a cycle but nothing is happening.

thanks for any help!

 

[Azedenkae]

Hard to say. Over the years, the organic matter might have been mostly gone, and what's left that you can see is just the remains that do not get broken down easily (i.e. tubes and the likes).

Best way to test it is to add either pure ammonia (as per Dr. Tim's), or what I prefer, just straight fish food. Add a bunch of food (a daily feeding, crushed as finely as possible) into the aquarium and see what happens after 24 hours. If parameters remain at zero, then there's enough bacteria. Though more than likely I'd think you'd then start to see something.

 

[KingTriton1]

I use 1 large raw shrimp in a filter sock underneath the drain for 1-2hrs and my ammonia rises to 2ppm.

 

[bertoni]

There might not have been much debris on the rock, or there might have been enough bacteria or bacterial spores to get the filter going quickly, or some combination thereof. I would just start feeding lightly and see how that goes.

 

[skp]

I added a 2 inch raw anchovy and a capful of zooplankton because that was all I had in the house at the moment. The water temperature is at 76F. Is it warm enough for things to decompose?

Thanks for all of the replies so far.

 

[bertoni]

That temperature is high enough to let decay occur.

 

[cb684]

Check your your test, or test for NO2 and NO3. If it was a very quick cycle these other parameters should be high.

 

[skp]

Check your your test, or test for NO2 and NO3. If it was a very quick cycle these other parameters should be high.

I purchased the ammonia and nitrate (API) test back in January when I purchased the tank so I'm thinking they should be still good (I didn't receive my tank until a month ago). I didn't purchase a nitrite test. I tested the water again today and there isn't any detectible ammonia or nitrates. Could it be that whatever die off there was, it slowly settled to the bottom of the container and the bacteria turned to dormant spores which are back in enough quantities to handle the little die of that stayed on the rocks? Perhaps the Microbacter7 is helping? I'll go get my water tested at the LFS and maybe pickup some Mysis.

 

[bertoni]

You might not see any nitrite or nitrate, either, for the same reasons. The bacterial additive might be doing something, too. If you want to be cautious, you could try feeding something like ¼ the daily feeding you intend to add for the first fish. If that doesn't cause any ammonia to show up, the tank should be okay for fish.

 

[skp]

I went to the LFS and it looks like my nitrate kit is off. My ammonia was undetectable, nitrite (API) had a slight yellow tinge but not close to anything on the chart. My nitrates are at 10 and phosphates are under 0.03 (maybe 0.01). I think I'm just going to leave it for the next two weeks because I'm going away on vacation next weekend for a week...unless anyone can think of something I can do to ensure a healthier start? Should I seed some phytoplankton? I don't plan to purchase lights until I get back in two weeks.

Thanks again

 

[bertoni]

Okay, that makes sense. I would do some water changes, and probably give the tank a week to stabilize.

 

[skp]

It's been 2 days and my nitrates have dropped from 10 to 4. Is it the denitrifying bacteria processing the nitrates or is it from bacteria using the nitrates to multiply?

Also, does anyone know if dead algae decomposes and directly releases nitrates or does it decompose and release ammonia first?

 

[bertoni]

I don't know whether the nitrate is being consumed primarily via denitrification or by heterotrophic aerobic bacteria. We don't have the tools to determine that.

Bacteria feeding on the protein in the algae produce ammonia, which then can be converted to nitrate.

 

[skp]

I guess ill do a water change and then another water change before I add anything in two weeks. Should I add an ammonia source if I'm not going to add any livestock for 2 weeks? I will be taking it slow once I start adding livestock.

 

[bertoni]

I'd probably just add tiny amounts of fish food, but I usually have stocked some small animals (mysids, copepods, amphipods, etc) at this point. Fish food should be a fine source of ammonia, too.

 

[skp]

Here's an update

Here's an update

I added a 1.5 inch clownfish at the 1 month mark (day 31). I fed only a little Mysis each day making sure there was no uneaten food. My nitrates hovered between 3 and 5. One week later (day 38) I noticed a small patch of diatoms on the sand. The diatoms spread all over the rocks in two days. The diatoms started to recede 5 days later (day 40) and were completely gone 5 days after that (day 45) only to be replaced by some green algae that looked feathery like bryopsis but I think it wasn't as it was easily pulled out and it all went away 3 days later (day 48). The tank was clean and algae free with nitrates always hovering around 3-5 for 4 days and then there was a power outage (day 52). There was no water movement for 14 hours and I noticed thousands of pods on the glass (more than 20 per sq inch). I don't know if it was a coincidence and the pod population just climaxed or if the lack of water movement caused all of the pods to come out of the rocks onto the glass but my clownfish ate them all in two days. 3 days later (day 55) and the diatoms started to come back and within 2 days they were covering the sand and rocks.

I stopped dosing microbacter7 on day 42. My phosphates are always almost undetectable and my nitrates have always hovered between 3-5. I've been consistently changing 7 gallons out of 57 gallons of water once per week with new salt water mixed from RODI water reading 0 tds.

Now I am wondering, could the power outage have killed my denitrifying bacteria? Should I dose some microbacter7 again?

thanks for the help

 

[bertoni]

I am not sure what the power outage might have done, but I'd give the tank at least a few weeks to recover. 3-5 ppm of nitrate should be fine for the fish and most corals, so I wouldn't worry much yet.

You might want to cut back on the feeding. Whether the food is eaten or not is not all that important. What goes in, mostly comes back out. Digestion is very inefficient.

 

[skp]

I've only been feeding maybe 3-5 Mysis a day. I'll cut back to every other day. It looks like it could be a mixture of diatoms and cyano or dynos. Whatever it is, most of it disappears or turns transparent after a few hours after the lights are off and comes back a few hours after the lights turn on.

 

[bertoni]

If it disappears, it's not diatoms. I would guess dinoflagellates, which often seem to be enter the water column at night.

 

[skp]

If it disappears, it's not diatoms. I would guess dinoflagellates, which often seem to be enter the water column at night.

It's red and it looks like dinos in some places rolling up into strings and in some places it looks like cyano with patches of slime on the rocks and in other places it looks like fine red dust on the sand. Even my skimmate is red. I tested my water today before the lights came on and the nitrates are reading 0 for the first time. Could it be that the power outage killed my denitrifying bacteria causing this bloom or was it just the next thing that was bound to happen to my tank in the overall cycle? Can dinos or cyano outcompete bacteria? I'm worried that maybe my denitrifying bacteria might have a hard time coming back (if they did die at all) and/or my acro frags might starve. I read that water changes can cause dinos to become worse and it has definitely become worse after the one water change I did a few days ago since they started to appear. Should I do a larger water change or feed more or add some chemipure blue? I would like to just leave it to see where it goes but I don't want this to go on for too long for fear that my acro frags could lose color or die. I think one of them was even spitting up some clear/white zooxanthellae last night, possibly due to the lack of nutrients in the water. Am I just stuck? I'm thinking I need to raise my nitrates a little so my acros have some nutrients but at the same time try and starve the dinos/cyano and I probably can't do both at the same time.

I just run 200 micron socks and a skimmer rated for 150 gallons on my 65 gallon (57 gallons of water). No chemicals, no macro algae. Water is made with DD h2ocean at 1.025.

Thanks again for all the help.