Drip acclimation can kill

[Fibinotchi]

I was supposed to be getting a shipment with a tiny Hawaiian lionfish from divers den today which will not be arriving until tomorrow due to "mechanical" failure on the fed ex plain. When I discussed this with divers den, they said to just make sure and double the acclimation time. Hmmm... I don't know.

 

[iamwrasseman]

although its not what i would do i would follow their instructions as they are very much a top notch facility . there are to many ways to acclimate and honestly if you get healthy livestock i really wonder how much the acclimation process ,whichever you choose will do much harm unless its taken into the extreme .
i acclimate my way for a reason as everyone may do also but we are all still learning every single day in this hobby ,if we dont learn were not paying attention .

 

[thcmusic]

I have used the cup method and have never lost anything. Seems to work very well for fish, mushrooms, clean-up crews, and sponges at least ...

 

[Sk8r]

I'd be real concerned about double the acclimation time---I'd call them again, ask their salinity, and set up for that shipment so it can go straight across once the closed bag temp is adjusted. There would be some worry for ph, so test that---but all things equal, the plain fact is, ammonia is ammonia, it develops when the bag is open, and it is no fish's friend. THat's scary, and I'm surprised at that advice.

 

[bluetang66]

Sk8r, how about cuc consisting mostly of snails, i've always bought a few pieces at a time but thought i would order a large one once the weather warms. i believe that it will be shipped with little to no water.

 

[Sk8r]

if it is shipped dry, it's probably going to be ok to put it on in. You can ask them where they have the salinity for their inverts: the answer for inverts is usually in that range I cited, 1.024. It's only fish that are that comfortable lower, as a generality. I've never had a 'dry' snail shipment to deal with, but I'll guess it's because people have lost snails to wild acclimation differences, and since this is one of the first purchases people make in a tank, they can make a mistake. This may be the way the seller tries to be sure his snails arrive and stay alive.

 

[hanley0019]

i always drip and never had any problems

 

[kevin21]

whats the best way to acclimate corals?

 

[garydan]

Let me preface this by saying this was a complete accident, not intentional at all and i wouldn't recommend this to _anyone_.

When we bought our LTA my wife had it sitting on the front seat of the car. Unsurprisingly it landed on the floor and broke the bag open. The LTA sat out of water for over 10 minutes. It emptied all of the water out of itself and shrunk down to practically nothing on the rock.

Needless to say, there was no acclimation involved when it got home. It was bought from petco, they seem to keep their water at 1.021 regardless of fish or coral, so there was certainly a significant salinity change... I assumed it was a goner, 10 minutes our of water, no acclimation at all, it was pretty much the worse case imaginable.

It's still alive, and going on three years later it's doing very well.

I did some research and it sounds like going out of water is common for (atleast some) anemone's. Some live in tidal areas and are exposed out of the water during low tide. I always wondered if removal like this would be better than a drip acclimation, since it does happen to the animal in nature anyway. Would it still experience osmotic shock if it was completely out of the water long enough that it's exterior was dry? In the case of the anemone, within an hour of going back into the water it opened up and didn't appear to be even phased by it.

I wouldn't voluntairily do this again, but it was a testament to the resiliancy of some of these animals.

 

[andrewsky]

i just do a bag float for 15 mins. then add about half a cup of my water to the bag sit another 10 mins. then add another half a cup sit for 10 mins. and add another 2/3s of a cup and sit for 15 mins. done, take the fish out of the bag and put into fish tank. all my fish have done well from doing that method. works for me. i dont add and of the water from the bag into my tank pretty sure most of you experts know.

 

[kevin21]

Can i do that same method for my corals but at the end dip in lugols solution or coralRX?

 

[detroit_fan]

sk8r- you suggest just matching QT salinity to that in the bag, but how do you do that so fast? I don't know the bag SG until I open it, so how do I adjust the SG fast enough in my QT to match it?

 

[Sk8r]

Re corals: you might at least put them somewhere you can observe them for a few hours, and finish with a dip.

Re how to adjust the salinity: use the telephone. CALL the lfs and ask them their salinity for a fish (it may differ from corals or inverts); call the online dealer and ask the same thing. These people know their salinity---or shouldn't be selling fish! Your last-moment check of the bag salinity is to CONFIRM what you were told; and if you do find it's more than .001 off, then you have no choice but to drip acclimate, and do the whole acclimation within 30 minutes. Osmotic shock can be fatal, but the closer you are the less damage: ammonia in the bag will climb steadily and rapidly, and is the greater danger.

 

[detroit_fan]

Re how to adjust the salinity: use the telephone. CALL the lfs and ask them their salinity for a fish (it may differ from corals or inverts); call the online dealer and ask the same thing. These people know their salinity---or shouldn't be selling fish! Your last-moment check of the bag salinity is to CONFIRM what you were told; and if you do find it's more than .001 off, then you have no choice but to drip acclimate, and do the whole acclimation within 30 minutes. Osmotic shock can be fatal, but the closer you are the less damage: ammonia in the bag will climb steadily and rapidly, and is the greater danger.

Ok, so I call ahead and get SG, then I match my SG in my QT. Once I get the fish home just simply float the bag to equalize temp, then quickly verify that SG in bag is what they told me, then right into the QT with no other acclimation?

 

[Uncle Salty 05]

Osmotic shock can be fatal

Source please.

Here's mine:
http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f6/fish-bio-101-a-8897.html

There is only a small salt concentration difference
between inside fish cells and in lake/river water, with the higher
concentration being inside the cells. So, water naturally diffuses
into the cells and the fish have pump-like proteins in the cell
membranes to compensate for this low-level osmosis. Our digestive system cells have lots of these osmosis-fighting pumps, too. The fact that fresh water is always seeping into the systems of these animals also means that freshwater fish and aquatic frogs don't have to drink. (freshwater animals with thicker skins, i.e. turtles, snakes and hippopotomi, do have to drink though, b/c the skin prevents this diffusion).

Salt water fish are designed very differently... instead of living in
an environment that is slightly fresher than their cells, they live in
an environment that is much saltier. Their cells have a high
concentration of osmosis-fighting pumps that work in the opposite
direction: they keep the water in, but pump out salt ions. Marine fish also have to actively drink the seawater, and their efficient kidneys extract most of the salt.

In addition, there are tons of more subtle differences. Some proteins fold differently depending on salt concentration, so many marine fish blood and digestive proteins are specifically designed to tolerate the higher salt concentrations. Also, freshwater fish have to expend a lot of energy to get the ions necessary to make their nerve cells work, whereas marine fish don't have to put any effort into that task -- they live surrounded by potassium and sodium salts. (end quote)

There simply is no danger of osmotic shock in marine fish, especially if we are only talking a few points of SG. Freashwater dips are common place and do no harm.

 

[Sk8r]

Which is why I say drip acclimation is one of the riskiest procedures in relation to benefit gained that we routinely do. Shelled creatures don't have as rapid a response as a fish, having their skin surface limited. And they're the very ones that many hobbyists just toss in. Even so, they generally managed to survive.

But over all, the number of fish killed by drip acclimation/ammonia shift probably exceeds the number ever killed by osmotic shock since the foundation of the hobby.

Which is why I say if you've been handed a surprise salinity difference problem, choose to get the fish out of the bag asap even if you have to fudge a point.

Let's be clear on the reason for accommodation of the fish with as little stress as possible; they've been caught in the ocean some days ago, hauled to the surface, put in a boat, sloshed ashore, maybe held in a tank, maybe just shipped out in a plane, put into a tank, dipped up, dropped into a bag, put into a shipping box, trucked all over town and left on your porch. So figure anything you can do to ease their way should be done, because this fish has just been stressed to the max. Things you can do: don't drop it into a tank full of competitors who think it's feeding time, and it with no territory, no hidey hole, blinded by a brilliant light, and weakened from hunger and fatigue.

qt well-matched to its water is a nice safe little nook with nothing moving, nothing threatening, dim light, calm water, and quiet. Food eventually happens, in a few hours and after a chance to rest, with no competition to chase him away from it. The water's clean. Nothing goes on to alarm it. It's got a piece of pipe to hide in, or just to give him a sense of environment. And after a couple of days he'll still be confused, but he'll be convinced he's safe and fed. QT is a LOT nicer than dumping him straight in.

 

[Sk8r]

Ok, so I call ahead and get SG, then I match my SG in my QT. Once I get the fish home just simply float the bag to equalize temp, then quickly verify that SG in bag is what they told me, then right into the QT with no other acclimation?

Exactly.

 

[stingythingy45]

Just my opinion,but I agree that more people do harm to fish by"dripping"them.
I've read on different forums where folks have drip acclimated fish for a few hours.
I'm sure the bag water was nice and cold by the time that long drawn out process was over.Then the fish don't survive and they wonder why.
Glad somebody finally brought this up for discussion.

 

[Sk8r]

Death comes, to reiterate a post way early in this string, when the bag opens, releasing the trapped gas, lowering the pressure, letting Co2 escape, which changes the ph of the water, which takes the harmless ammonium in fish bio-activity in the water, and converts it fairly rapidly to lethal ammonia. The process starts the moment the bag is opened, and ammonia can reach lethal levels in 30 minutes.

A fish taken from the lfs 3 blocks to your house is not going to have poo'ed and breathed much---compared to a fish shipped from a vendor at the other end of the country that's been air-shipped, then trucked all over town for 4-5 hours. A shipped fish is in dire danger from the chemistry.

 

[Sk8r]

I meant to say something more extensive about corals, too.
Corals are usually kept and shipped at 1.024, which is pretty well where your tank needs to be, too, if it's a reef. BUT having a tank ready where you can observe the coral and pick off any zoa-eating nudibranchs without wondering if one got loose, or spot red bug and treat it BEFORE it bestows the parasite into your tank---priceless.

Also, coral faces another situation: it has very great sensitivity to ammonia. AND stony coral has a stony structure. If the heating in the shipping box was inadequate, the stony part has chilled down and will warm up slowly. So be aware of that. Corals always lag the tank, temperaturewise, and a chilled coral will not be reactive...remember that cold slows chemistry down and heat speeds it up---but also be aware that nothing good happens fast with a coral. I would NOT shine brilliant mh light on a coral having a temperature crisis. I have no idea whether it's significant or not, but the zooxanthellae being sent to work before the coral has reached temperature equilibrium with the water just doesn't sound good to me. It's been in the dark; keep it dim until its stony part temperature has caught up to current affairs. It may also, under stress, release stress chemicals that can annoy other corals, (softies tend to do this) so just being slow, dim, warm, and gentle in its changes would probably give it a better chance.