drummereef's 180g in-wall build

[110galreef]

wow this is all great & amazing news! How is the sand looking in past & now.....perfectly white? Also do you vaccuum it w/ wc's or just leave it be?
Oh yeah & how often where you having to wipe down glass.....interesting to see if this improves too.

 

[iwishtofish]

UPDATE:


Late night update here...

Do you ever sleep? Well, you're surely no different than the rest of us!


WARNING: The following pictures are disturbing and somewhat embarrassing.
But in the spirit of open reef keeping I will share them.

Phew! For a moment I feared your wife snuck some candid pictures of you scrubbing algae in the buff... :lol2:


In all seriousness, that is exciting news about the initial results of this Coral Snow, etc. Sounds like something I'd like to use, but it also sounds expensive. Perhaps I'll settle for trying vodka and MB7 first!

So, at this point, if you were starting all over, would you do anything differently with the Marco Rock (ie vinegar soak), or do you think any PO4 it might have leached hasn't been a significant problem?

Please keep the pictures coming. Fascinating process to follow!

 

[drummereef]

cool reaction to the algae!!

Yes it is!

Do you feed your corals ?

I'm dosing KZ AAHC 2x weekly. I'm adjusting the dosage currently but right now 2-3 drops 2x weekly.

wow this is all great & amazing news! How is the sand looking in past & now.....perfectly white? Also do you vaccuum it w/ wc's or just leave it be?
Oh yeah & how often where you having to wipe down glass.....interesting to see if this improves too.

Sand is not perfectly white. There is more of the green/brown hair algae on the surface of the sand but I think the Coral Snow is starting to effect it as well. I can see some of it starting to bleach. I vacuum the sand bed a couple times a month at water changes. Right now I only have to wipe the glass 2-3 times a week but it's mostly this brown stuff that seems to be dying with each Coral Snow dose. I'm starting to see some of it die on the glass inside the overflows so it should start taking hold on the display glass as well. I'll keep posting updates on the progress.

 

[drummereef]

Do you ever sleep? Well, you're surely no different than the rest of us!

Phew! For a moment I feared your wife snuck some candid pictures of you scrubbing algae in the buff...


In all seriousness, that is exciting news about the initial results of this Coral Snow, etc. Sounds like something I'd like to use, but it also sounds expensive. Perhaps I'll settle for trying vodka and MB7 first!

So, at this point, if you were starting all over, would you do anything differently with the Marco Rock (ie vinegar soak), or do you think any PO4 it might have leached hasn't been a significant problem?

Please keep the pictures coming. Fascinating process to follow!

Haha. You know with a 16 month old sleep is not relevant. :lol:

If you are only dosing 1x per week which is recommended for maintenance it's not too bad. It costs around 45 bucks and would last for approx 6 months or so on a system like mine. I'm using it for an acute issue so my dosing is much more frequent. I think the use of Vodka/MB7 is useful but it's focus is for a different issue altogether - nutrient reduction. This algae issue of mine seems to not care if the water column is nutrient poor or not. That's why I think it's bacterial in nature. I can't say if I'd do anything different other than dose bacteria heavily from the beginning. Some users of Marco Rock don't have this kind of algae, some do like crvz and Taqpol. They weren't hit as hard as mine but I think they used some live rock to bolster the bacteria population in the beginning. But, I think I've lucked into a fix... at least for the moment.

 

[tegee]

If you are only dosing 1x per week which is recommended for maintenance it's not too bad. It costs around 45 bucks and would last for approx 6 months or so on a system like mine. I'm using it for an acute issue so my dosing is much more frequent. I think the use of Vodka/MB7 is useful but it's focus is for a different issue altogether - nutrient reduction. This algae issue of mine seems to not care if the water column is nutrient poor or not. That's why I think it's bacterial in nature. I can't say if I'd do anything different other than dose bacteria heavily from the beginning. Some users of Marco Rock don't have this kind of algae, some do like crvz and Taqpol. They weren't hit as hard as mine but I think they used some live rock to bolster the bacteria population in the beginning. But, I think I've lucked into a fix... at least for the moment.

Brett,

I set my 180-gl. Miracles tank in March of 2010 and use Macro Rock like you and several others have. I think I may have purchased from another vendor though?

Anyway, tank was cranking along for several months and than BANG, in mid-October had a major algae/cyano outbreak literally overnight. I was scratching my head and VERY bummed for a long time. Took some very nice frags and even lost several nice wrasses and anthias too.

After reading your experiences, as well as taqpol and several others, I really think I can trace back to the dry rock imho. I plan on picking up some Coral Snow and ZeoBak and begin dosing too. The good news is, since I have been doing aggressive 25% weekly water changes for over a month the tank is really beginning to make a positive turn. Rock is almost clear of algae and sandbed is beginning to be void of the terrible brown film too.

HTH

 

[afernandez]

Brett Like u I've been getting some "fake hair algae" fake b/c it's lighter than green and not as stringy if that makes any sense. But I've been dosing mb7 all along starting my tank,I started my pellets 4 weeks ago and all my levels are stable I'm just puzzled about the Algae..I'm going to try these products as long as it's safe to do so. Thank you for your up keep of your log

 

[drummereef]

Brett,

I set my 180-gl. Miracles tank in March of 2010 and use Macro Rock like you and several others have. I think I may have purchased from another vendor though?

Anyway, tank was cranking along for several months and than BANG, in mid-October had a major algae/cyano outbreak literally overnight. I was scratching my head and VERY bummed for a long time. Took some very nice frags and even lost several nice wrasses and anthias too.

After reading your experiences, as well as taqpol and several others, I really think I can trace back to the dry rock imho. I plan on picking up some Coral Snow and ZeoBak and begin dosing too. The good news is, since I have been doing aggressive 25% weekly water changes for over a month the tank is really beginning to make a positive turn. Rock is almost clear of algae and sandbed is beginning to be void of the terrible brown film too.

HTH

Yes tegee, exactly how this stuff starts. Sorry to hear it took it's toll on your fish and coral. Sounds exactly like what I went through. Glad you are beating it though.

Brett Like u I've been getting some "fake hair algae" fake b/c it's lighter than green and not as stringy if that makes any sense. But I've been dosing mb7 all along starting my tank,I started my pellets 4 weeks ago and all my levels are stable I'm just puzzled about the Algae..I'm going to try these products as long as it's safe to do so. Thank you for your up keep of your log

Anything's possible afernandez. I had the chance to send a sample of the algae to someone for analysis but I passed on the offer (unfortunately). I never thought it would be severe enough to warrant the effort. But as of the last couple days I'm making huge strides. The products are safe to use but I would read up on them and make sure it's right for your system. It's not a "fix-all" but seems to be helping in my case.

 

[bagz727]

hi, im planning to get radiums and would like to know if they are bright and if they are not too blue coz im not a fan of lights that are too blue. thanks

 

[drummereef]

hi, im planning to get radiums and would like to know if they are bright and if they are not too blue coz im not a fan of lights that are too blue. thanks

It depends how you run them bagz. Currently I'm running mine in HQI mode on my Galaxy Select-A-Watt Ballasts. They are a crisp white with a hint of blue. I used to run them on the regular 250 watt setting. They were much more blue on that setting. I'm sure you'd also see a difference running them on M80s as well.

 

[drummereef]

UPDATE:


As promised here's the FTS for March, 2011.

 

[bagz727]

It depends how you run them bagz. Currently I'm running mine in HQI mode on my Galaxy Select-A-Watt Ballasts. They are a crisp white with a hint of blue. I used to run them on the regular 250 watt setting. They were much more blue on that setting. I'm sure you'd also see a difference running them on M80s as well.

i have icecap ballasts, do you think they would be on the blue side? ty

 

[cromedogg33]

i have icecap ballasts, do you think they would be on the blue side? ty

Extremely blue. The Icecap will underdrive the bulbs.

 

[cromedogg33]

Brett,

Tank is looking amazing as usual and I think I see some algae on the left vortech that you haven't meticulously scrubbed of with some ingenious concoction

Stupid question....Where did you end up getting your black background and what material is it? I can't for the life of me find anything I've fallen in love with to keep on the back side of my tank.....half the reason is I spend more time looking at the back side of the tank than the front.

Did you fasten it to the actual glass or just velcro it to the trim of the actual tank?

 

[jjwill_sdsu]

Hi Brett,
Long time reader, first time poster Love your tank setup and methodological ways, and can't wait to see it fill in.

Couple of questions:
1) Do you think phosphate leeching from dry rock is specific to the Marco rocks you were using or most dry rock in general (i.e. BRS "Reef Saver" rock, etc.)? Any suggestions for somehow "curing" the rock to get rid of the phosphates ahead of time?

2) Do you think Zeo-Vit type additives are necessary for any bio-pellet users, or do you think having a heavier fish/bio load in conjunction with heavier feedings would substitute well?

3) When you dose MB7 or ZeoBak, do you do it straight into your pellet reactor or is tank dosing fine?

Thanks,
Jordan

 

[psteeleb]

Jordan, I'll chime in on your first question regarding phosphates leeching from rock. It is not exclusive to Marco rocks.

All dry rock will leech some phosphates unless it is 100% sterile. This is true for both land rock and ocean rocks formed from reef beds. Land based rocks will have a lot less leeching, and in many cases may not even be noticeable as most will be from surface stuff you can scrub off like lichen, molds, bacteria etc. The more porous the rock there will be more opportunity for dry organic mater in the form of phosphates to leech. With dead ocean rock there will be a much larger amount of dead material that will leech out. The younger the dead rock the more opportunity there will be as time will take care of some leaching on land but the process will be a lot slower then when submerged.

So what can we do when introducing a large amount of dead rock from the ocean to minimize the leeching? Simple answer is, to let it leech in a wet system, preferably not part of your marine environment.

You can accelerate the leeching to some extent with heat to increase the decay rate but it pretty much just takes time.

You can also bypass some of the leeching by sterilizing the rock with bleach but you will need to de-chlorinate the rock after.

And as suggested you can use an acid to decay the rock surface and expose the newer embedded organics, thus accelerating that leeching. This surface process will not help the deeply embedded stuff that will continue to leech over time, but it may be enough to take a large chunk out of the initial leeching impact.

 

[110galreef]

Found us a NEW toy...... HI 736 This may help more accuratly evaluate our PO4 levels in our quest for an ULNS. It measure phosporus in ppb rather PO4 in ppm.
converted it reads PO4 in the 0-.613ppm opposed to 0-2.5ppm of the HI 713 checker that we have.

It is desingned to measure a much lower amount and thus give a more accurate picture especially in our 0.0 -.03ppm realm!


http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1848082

I wish I new this existed before i bought my HI 713 PO4 checker a few mos back. Time for an upgrade i think! They cost basically the same to at like $50.

 

[jjwill_sdsu]

So what can we do when introducing a large amount of dead rock from the ocean to minimize the leeching? Simple answer is, to let it leech in a wet system, preferably not part of your marine environment.

Thanks for the info! Can the water be freshwater as long as it has a lower PO4 concentration? How long does it typically take to leech out reasonable levels? Also, I assume once you do this one time, you can let the rocks sit dry until you're ready to use them?

 

[drummereef]

i have icecap ballasts, do you think they would be on the blue side? ty

Yes, as cromedogg said they will be quite blue on those ballasts. If you are looking for a more white look I'd be apt to sell those and invest in a different ballast.

Brett,

Tank is looking amazing as usual and I think I see some algae on the left vortech that you haven't meticulously scrubbed of with some ingenious concoction

Stupid question....Where did you end up getting your black background and what material is it? I can't for the life of me find anything I've fallen in love with to keep on the back side of my tank.....half the reason is I spend more time looking at the back side of the tank than the front.

Did you fasten it to the actual glass or just velcro it to the trim of the actual tank?

Yes you are correct, there is a little algae on the Vortechs. It's just part of my study. There are no stupid questions in this thread!! The background is just black poster board. :lol: It's temporary as I haven't decided how I'm going to implement the permanent background yet. I really like keeping the back of the tank open when I'm at home as I spend a lot of time in the sump room looking at the tank. But I like the option of attaching a background for pictures as it really ads to the impact of the colors and space. I'll hopefully get on that project in the near future.

Hi Brett,
Long time reader, first time poster Love your tank setup and methodological ways, and can't wait to see it fill in.

Couple of questions:
1) Do you think phosphate leeching from dry rock is specific to the Marco rocks you were using or most dry rock in general (i.e. BRS "Reef Saver" rock, etc.)? Any suggestions for somehow "curing" the rock to get rid of the phosphates ahead of time?

2) Do you think Zeo-Vit type additives are necessary for any bio-pellet users, or do you think having a heavier fish/bio load in conjunction with heavier feedings would substitute well?

3) When you dose MB7 or ZeoBak, do you do it straight into your pellet reactor or is tank dosing fine?

Thanks,
Jordan

Hi Jordan, thanks for the kind words.

1. As Pete describes in his post below, yes phosphates were and are actively leaching from the rock. The PO4 might not show up in tests as we only test the water column but the algae growth will tell otherwise. I agree with Pete about "curing" the rock in a separate tub but this can take months, essentially the same time frame as what my display has gone through. I think dosing bacteria heavily definitely helps uptake the leaching nutrients.

2. It's hard to say at this point but as the nutrient level decreases with the bio pellets use, my assumption is that supplement coral feeding are necessary. Fish waste is a great food source for coral but it's also an inaccurate measure of what the corals need. There are other "simple" forms of proteins such as amino acids that can benefit the corals without adding a ton of waste to the system. Necessary, no... Beneficial, I believe so with the information presented at this point.

3. Dosing the tank is fine with the bacteria products. I've been dosing in conjunction with KZ Corals Snow, mixed together in a slurry.

Jordan, I'll chime in on your first question regarding phosphates leeching from rock. It is not exclusive to Marco rocks.

All dry rock will leech some phosphates unless it is 100% sterile. This is true for both land rock and ocean rocks formed from reef beds. Land based rocks will have a lot less leeching, and in many cases may not even be noticeable as most will be from surface stuff you can scrub off like lichen, molds, bacteria etc. The more porous the rock there will be more opportunity for dry organic mater in the form of phosphates to leech. With dead ocean rock there will be a much larger amount of dead material that will leech out. The younger the dead rock the more opportunity there will be as time will take care of some leaching on land but the process will be a lot slower then when submerged.

So what can we do when introducing a large amount of dead rock from the ocean to minimize the leeching? Simple answer is, to let it leech in a wet system, preferably not part of your marine environment.

You can accelerate the leeching to some extent with heat to increase the decay rate but it pretty much just takes time.

You can also bypass some of the leeching by sterilizing the rock with bleach but you will need to de-chlorinate the rock after.

And as suggested you can use an acid to decay the rock surface and expose the newer embedded organics, thus accelerating that leeching. This surface process will not help the deeply embedded stuff that will continue to leech over time, but it may be enough to take a large chunk out of the initial leeching impact.

Thank you Pete! Your expertise is always appreciated here. :thumbsup:

Found us a NEW toy...... HI 736 This may help more accuratly evaluate our PO4 levels in our quest for an ULNS. It measure phosporus in ppb rather PO4 in ppm.
converted it reads PO4 in the 0-.613ppm opposed to 0-2.5ppm of the HI 713 checker that we have.

It is desingned to measure a much lower amount and thus give a more accurate picture especially in our 0.0 -.03ppm realm!


http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1848082

I wish I new this existed before i bought my HI 713 PO4 checker a few mos back. Time for an upgrade i think! They cost basically the same to at like $50.

Nice! I'll have to check that out. Thanks for the link.

 

[drummereef]

Thanks for the info! Can the water be freshwater as long as it has a lower PO4 concentration? How long does it typically take to leech out reasonable levels? Also, I assume once you do this one time, you can let the rocks sit dry until you're ready to use them?

I would not use freshwater as you are just introducing more PO4. I would "cycle" it like you would a tank using saltwater. Also put a heater in the tub and if you have an extra skimmer it wouldn't hurt. Like I said, my rocks are still leaching small amounts of phosphate. It could take months.

 

[drummereef]

UPDATE:


More pics for you guys.


Vortech Battery Backup

I finally finished mounting the Vortech Battery Backup to the Apex Panel. Wires are managed in the same manner as the probe wires which run around the conduit to their respective devices.

Some coral progression shots for you...


1-19-11

3-2-11 Coloring up quite a bit. I think I ticked off this one moments before the pic thus the lack of polyp extension. Normally the polyps are fully extended.

1-19-11

3-2-11 Better color, polyp extension, and a bit of growth.

And a couple closeup shots...


Polyp extension.

Blue Acro Frag. This one is small, <1"