drummereef's 180g in-wall build

[cromedogg33]

So you are finally convinced they are dinos? I'm still slowly killing off all my cyano, and without doubt (IMO) it's due to the fact I started dosing bacteria again on a daily basis. It's also making my skimmer work amazing.

I was reading some some opinions on biopellets today and trying to find a happy medium with how much is in a tank vs whats in the tank.

If I remember correctly you are running approx ~50% of reccomended dosage? Have you considered removing even more until you have the need when your bioload continues to raise?

 

[drummereef]

Thanks Brett for fast respond

I will try that for my new tank.

No problem salali. Mine have been model citizens so far, no picking on each other. But I've been feeding them heavily in hopes it will keep them busy. So far so good.

So you are finally convinced they are dinos? I'm still slowly killing off all my cyano, and without doubt (IMO) it's due to the fact I started dosing bacteria again on a daily basis. It's also making my skimmer work amazing.

I was reading some some opinions on biopellets today and trying to find a happy medium with how much is in a tank vs whats in the tank.

If I remember correctly you are running approx ~50% of reccomended dosage? Have you considered removing even more until you have the need when your bioload continues to raise?

Yes, definitely Dinos. Long stringy stuff with bubbles that grows incredibly fast when the lights come on. I can baste the corals and within minutes they are attached and growing again. It's insane how fast they multiply. Some strains don't respond as well to the H2O2 treatment from what I've read. Mine haven't really gotten any worse since I started dosing but they haven't gone away. But it's the fact they are irritating the corals which is ticking me off.

I don't know if you saw or not, but I've removed all of the bio pellets from the system. I did this to see if 1) it would make a difference in nuisance algae growth or nutrient levels and 2) if the excess dead bacteria was somehow feeding the Dinos. So as of two days ago they've been off the system. No noticeable difference so far in either of the above theories... Time will tell but I've got more hope in the Kalk solution and lights out period than anything at this point.

It's not a major bloom by any means, but the fact they are irritating the corals has me taking action. Nothing like the pics you see on the web etc... Just enough to tick me off. :lol:

 

[ljr]

I've heard they do better in odd numbers, so next time try 11 instead of 10. Also feed them frequently so they have something to occupy their time instead of picking on each other.

huh? they may do better with odd numbers, but if you start with 10 and the first one dies, and you have an odd number.

I have three of the green chromis in my tank for over three years now, model citizens and very active, I like them a lot.

 

[dzhuo]

If my probe isn't bad my pH is running 7.9-8.1 (lights off / lights on). The tank evaporates about 3-4 gallons per day.

You are adding 12% to 16% of water weekly which is a lot more than mine so maybe you will have better luck maintaining a higher pH than I do. If you have a controller, why not program it so it cuts the pump off after pH reach a certain level? That seems safer.

Have you read this article? Problem Dinoflagellates and pH

 

[prop-frags]

Brett, we run both a CA reactor and a Neilsen reactor.
The Neilsen reactor is tied into our ATO with an advanced manual variable flow control (AMVFC):


The clear tube on the left is from the R/O ATO vat,
the AMVFC is the blue knob which allows mixing R/O and Kalk,
the black tube coming out of the AMVFC feeds R/O up to the Neilsen reactor,
the black tube dangling into the sump carries effluent from the Neilsen reactor to the sump

The AMVFC allows us to dial in the ratio of Kalkwasser to R/O for top-off water.

When we need to "spot dose" we use either Sodium Bicarb or Sodium Carb, or a mix of the two depending on the pH effect we need to get. I'm sure you've read Randy's marvelous AA article on this, but as a refresher, check out the "zone 4" section.

 

[drummereef]

huh? they may do better with odd numbers, but if you start with 10 and the first one dies, and you have an odd number.

I have three of the green chromis in my tank for over three years now, model citizens and very active, I like them a lot.

Ha! I think that rule pertains to the addition of a group or "school" into the aquarium. Less likely to have problems introducing odd numbers from the beginning. Like 1 male Anthias and an odd number of females to form the herem. This isn't always true from what I've seen but sometimes works. I still think keeping them occupied with their appetite is a better bet for longevity.

You are adding 12% to 16% of water weekly which is a lot more than mine so maybe you will have better luck maintaining a higher pH than I do. If you have a controller, why not program it so it cuts the pump off after pH reach a certain level? That seems safer.

Have you read this article? Problem Dinoflagellates and pH

Indeed. I think that will be my next venture. I need a slightly larger reservoir if I'm going to add the Kalk to the top-off setup. Otherwise I'll be mixing the stuff up daily. Once I find a container that will work I'll start dosing that way. Right now I've rigged up a 5 gallon jug which I'll detail shortly...

Brett, we run both a CA reactor and a Neilsen reactor.
The Neilsen reactor is tied into our ATO with an advanced manual variable flow control (AMVFC):

The clear tube on the left is from the R/O ATO vat,
the AMVFC is the blue knob which allows mixing R/O and Kalk,
the black tube coming out of the AMVFC feeds R/O up to the Neilsen reactor,
the black tube dangling into the sump carries effluent from the Neilsen reactor to the sump

The AMVFC allows us to dial in the ratio of Kalkwasser to R/O for top-off water.

When we need to "spot dose" we use either Sodium Bicarb or Sodium Carb, or a mix of the two depending on the pH effect we need to get. I'm sure you've read Randy's marvelous AA article on this, but as a refresher, check out the "zone 4" section.

Very cool Mike. I like the idea of being able to regulate the amount of top off vs kalk. Seems like a good way to dial it in. And thanks for the link too, I need to re-read this stuff. Been a while... :reading:

 

[drummereef]

UPDATE:


I made a quick Kalk doser tonight from some random stuff I had laying around. Figured it would make a decent test bed for dosing until I gather the necessary parts to incorporate the dosing with my ATO. It's obviously temporary but seems to be working good so far. Hopefully this tutorial will help someone out there who is new to Kalk dosing, like me. So here's what I came up with...


I had a 5 gallon jug I bought from a LFS a while back that was just sitting around. Also had some airline tubing, a piece of rigid airline, and finally an airline valve.

First step was to drill a hold to accommodate the rigid airline. I drilled a slightly smaller hole than the airline so it would be a snug fit.

Then I connected one end of the soft airline tubing to the rigid tubing. The rigid tube will be suspended down into the jug a couple inches off the bottom.

Next step was to push the rigid tubing through the hole I had drilled in the lid. The overlapping airline tubing also helps to keep the rigid tubing from slipping into the jug.

Finish lid and tubing assembly.

Last step was to connect the airline valve to the opposite end of the airline tubing.

And finally the finished product. This particular jug has a bleeder valve built in. If your container does not have this you'll need to drill a second hole to allow air into the container as the Kalk solution is displaced.

 

[cromedogg33]

Brett,

How are you going to keep the kalkwasswer stirred up? Are you just going to mix the jug by hand?

 

[110galreef]

brett,

are you still dosing AA's? If so how much? I just picked up some Elos AA (omega) for giggles to see if they make any effect and I needed to add a few bucks for FREE shipping! :rollface:

I know you were using zeo brand, but trying to get a rough guage. Elos says like 3 drops min for every 13g....that's like 70 drops min for me a DAY!:bigeyes:

I figure like 30 drops every few days would probably be a better start. Also do you know roughly how many drops are in a ML? It comes with a nice syringe that reads up to 2.5 ML. I think 1 ml is usually about 30 drops.

 

[drummereef]

Brett,

How are you going to keep the kalkwasswer stirred up? Are you just going to mix the jug by hand?

I was just planning on dosing the Kalk as an unsaturated solution. I don't completely understand the benefits of a saturated solution, like from a Kalk stirrer, but I'm guessing you can push the pH a little more in tanks that don't evaporate at a high enough rate. And you can deliver more Alk/Ca to the tank, since the solution is in suspension. thoughts there?

brett,

are you still dosing AA's? If so how much? I just picked up some Elos AA (omega) for giggles to see if they make any effect and I needed to add a few bucks for FREE shipping! :rollface:

I know you were using zeo brand, but trying to get a rough guage. Elos says like 3 drops min for every 13g....that's like 70 drops min for me a DAY!:bigeyes:

I figure like 30 drops every few days would probably be a better start. Also do you know roughly how many drops are in a ML? It comes with a nice syringe that reads up to 2.5 ML. I think 1 ml is usually about 30 drops.

I stopped dosing temporarily because I've read they can feed Dinos. So obviously that's the last thing I want to do at this point. I do plan on dosing again once things are back and rolling. I would definitely start slow, like cutting the recommended dose in half or less to start. Then gradually increase it over time. AA's can cause various algae blooms when overdosed, especially GHA from what I've seen.

 

[PaPa_Johnny]

Brett, what is your alk running? The reason I'm asking is that very small amounts of Randy's II part Alk forumla can increase pH substantially at times (so the calculator tell me when I see what to add). I had good luck with dyno's just using lime water and dosing for alk to keep pH up. (Using baked baking soda). Again, just 1/2 cent from the peanut gallery!

 

[drummereef]

Brett, what is your alk running? The reason I'm asking is that very small amounts of Randy's II part Alk forumla can increase pH substantially at times (so the calculator tell me when I see what to add). I had good luck with dyno's just using lime water and dosing for alk to keep pH up. (Using baked baking soda). Again, just 1/2 cent from the peanut gallery!

Hey Johnny, right now my Alk is around 8.5. I was using Randy's 2-part (Recipe #1) exclusively to manage Alk and Ca but I was finding my demand is so low that 15-20ml in 220g of saltwater wasn't doing anything substantial for the pH. Thus the interest in dosing Kalk lately. Thanks for the heads up though.

 

[PaPa_Johnny]

Nope, not enough to even notice that teeny amount. Just have to love lil snot bunnies thought don't we?

 

[drummereef]

Nope, not enough to even notice that teeny amount. Just have to love lil snot bunnies thought don't we?

:lol:

 

[drummereef]

UPDATE:


New pH probe came today, so my pH after calibration is currently 8.17. Not to bad considering the old one (1 year old) was reading 8.06. Still dripping Kalk to match the evaporation rate so we'll see how the pH rises over the next 24 hrs.

 

[henrystyle]

UPDATE:


New pH probe came today, so my pH after calibration is currently 8.17. Not to bad considering the old one (1 year old) was reading 8.06. Still dripping Kalk to match the evaporation rate so we'll see how the pH rises over the next 24 hrs.

Your running a calcium reactor?
Any windows in your fish room?
I can guarantee you that your ph will rise if you get some fresh air in there..
I rose my ph 7.9 to 8.2 by just opening the windows. I can actually notice a big difference in growth. Never really paid my ph any mind before, but I am now.
If your running a cal reactor, the c02 from it will cause your PH to drop. This is exactly why I just ordered a bubble magus dosing pump. More accurate and less of a hit to my tanks ph. (you wouldn't need to drip kalk)

 

[drummereef]

Your running a calcium reactor?
Any windows in your fish room?
I can guarantee you that your ph will rise if you get some fresh air in there..
I rose my ph 7.9 to 8.2 by just opening the windows. I can actually notice a big difference in growth. Never really paid my ph any mind before, but I am now.
If your running a cal reactor, the c02 from it will cause your PH to drop. This is exactly why I just ordered a bubble magus dosing pump. More accurate and less of a hit to my tanks ph. (you wouldn't need to drip kalk)

No cal reactor (yet). Just dosing Kalk right now. This last week has been unusually hot for our area this time of year, 90+, so the windows have been closed. My windows in the basement unfortunately don't have screens so I can't leave them open for any length of time or it's a mosquito farm. Haha. I've also had good luck in the past opening the windows for pH issues but the climate recently hasn't been cooperating. :headwally:

What are you dosing with the Bubble Magnus, 2-Part?

 

[henrystyle]

No cal reactor (yet). Just dosing Kalk right now. This last week has been unusually hot for our area this time of year, 90+, so the windows have been closed. My windows in the basement unfortunately don't have screens so I can't leave them open for any length of time or it's a mosquito farm. Haha. I've also had good luck in the past opening the windows for pH issues but the climate recently hasn't been cooperating. :headwally:

dosing with the Bubble Magnus, 2-Part?

dosing homemade 2 part. Right now my tank uses about 50ml of Alk a day. I add magnesium to my top off water so everytime my auto top off kicks on, I add a little mag.. Coraline starting to take over my marco rock.

 

[tegee]

Brett....

Just a quick question (and Nanook if you are out there too)......

I installed the Phoenix bulbs yesterday (250w 14k on HQI ballasts) and they do not seem as bright as the Radiums. The overall FTS looks dimmer. Is this my imagination or my head playing tricks on me??? I did install all three at the same time and did not run a side-to-side comparison, that is why I am reach out to see if this may be true?

Did you notice the same thing? BTW: I know it has only been one day, and the bulbs have to burn in, but I do like the color and Jeremy at PA is convinced that the overall color difference between the two bulbs is negligible. I am hoping that the Phoenix have better Par and that I will notice increased growth?

Many thx in advance...Tony

 

[psteeleb]

I don't completely understand the benefits of a saturated solution, like from a Kalk stirrer, but I'm guessing you can push the pH a little more in tanks that don't evaporate at a high enough rate. And you can deliver more Alk/Ca to the tank, since the solution is in suspension. thoughts there?

There is very little difference between using a stirrer and a still reservoir if you only fill the reservoir up in single batches like what you’re doing.

The main benefit when using a kalc stirrer (or reactor) is when you introduce more water at each dosing without stirring it, or the solution can become diluted.

So here are some options

Kalc in a top off reservoir:
If you use a top off reservoir where you add water every couple days the addition of the water should agitate the kalc powder on the bottom of the reservoir enough to reach saturation with the residual solids falling back to the bottom. The water should remain saturated for days (I'm sure it drops some but my understanding is it's negligible). On the flip side; if you replenish your reservoir constantly (though bad for your RO/DI filters) without stirring your saturation will dilute over time, though how much I don't know.
Downsides: slight variants in solution saturation, providing a control for potential over dose with top off fluctuations, and clogging your top off pump

Using a Kalc drip from a jug or bucket etc:
This will work just like the top off reservoir where as long as you mix up the solution with the addition of more water your solution should stay very constant.
Downsides: maintaining the drip rate

Using a Kalc reactor with top off:
Using a kalc reactor or stirrer will provide a constant saturation regardless of how you introduce more RO/DI water and should be down stream of your pump.
Downsides: providing a control for potential over dose with top off fluctuations. Cost

Using a Kalc reactor independent of top off:
This allows you to provide additional controls and continuity out side of top off. You can set the reactor to dose a specific amount at specific times. This is usually done with a separate pump in your top off reservoir and you adjust your dosing to be less then your daily top off allowing the normal top off to pick up the remaining evaporation. You can also set the pump on a controller with a high pH off command without interrupting top off demands.
Downsides: cost

You don't want to introduce the suspended solids to the tank or you will get a huge pH spike (been there done that a couple times :uhoh2: )