The Plummer
New member
I'm not sure what your asking, but if I understand correctly, what you propose is unnecessary.
That being said, why not try it and share your experiences, maybe your on to something that we can all benefit from.
DSB in a bucket for nitrate control
- Thread starter JohnL
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I'm not sure what your asking, but if I understand correctly, what you propose is unnecessary.
That being said, why not try it and share your experiences, maybe your on to something that we can all benefit from.
You mentioned nitrogen air getting trapped. I was thinking of a way to make a chimney for the air to vent out. And use an elbow at the top to keep the light out as much as possible.
The Plummer
New member
You could try that, though I don't believe it to be necessary, as the nitrogen gas builds up over time to a point that it eventually burps itself and the bubbles are transported to the sump via the fast flow of water traveling through the filter.
If you chose to go that route the vertical standpipe would necessarily have to be higher than the height of the water at rest (think power failure) in order to prevent a flood.
One more thing, a vented bucket will only work if your using gravity as your method of water flow. If you intend to use a pump to push the water through the filter, you'll just force water out of the vent and onto your floor.
Last edited:
NanoJosh
New member
Anybody know if the sacrete natural play sand is oolitic or not I did a quick google search and the sacrete website didn't say where this sand came from or what type it is mostly quartz though so anybody know if that would be acceptable.
55 gal mixed reef 10 gal SPS Dom.
10 gal nem tank 2 maxi minis 2 rock flower and one sunburst RBTA
Sent from some device using some app
55 gal mixed reef 10 gal SPS Dom.
10 gal nem tank 2 maxi minis 2 rock flower and one sunburst RBTA
Sent from some device using some app
The Plummer
New member
Asked and answered many times previously in this thread.
Short answer, it depends where you live. Neither sacrete,old castle, or any other brand I could find in the Midwest was anything other than silica based sand.
It will work, with a caveat. You'll get the benifit of the additional capacity of aerobic bacteria and the addition of anaerobic bacteria, but you'll not get the benifit of PH buffering, the natural dissolving of "old" sand to be replaced by new sand (maintaining the sustainability of the filter), and you get the joys of silicates constantly releasing into the water column.
I'm one of the cheapest of the cheap, but even I could recognize that it's worth it to just buck up and buy the finest dry sugar sand you can find in the LFS as that works best.
In my area, a local Petco had numerous bags of the really fine sand that wouldn't sell and they marked it down to move it and I bought all they had, at about $.85/lb.
Remember to top or with 5pbs of aragonite aquarium gravel and install the diffuser described above or you'll just wind up digging it out of your sump.
Learned that one the hard way.
d2mini
Premium Member
If we are speaking of 5 gallon buckets, how many would be needed for a 300 gallon system to be effective?
Also, if using the bucket method, is there ever any reason to shut it down and take a peak inside?
Finally, the more recent threads mention 60lbs of sugar sand and 5 lbs of gravel. About how much does this fill up the bucket? Is there a specific depth to shoot for?
Also, if using the bucket method, is there ever any reason to shut it down and take a peak inside?
Finally, the more recent threads mention 60lbs of sugar sand and 5 lbs of gravel. About how much does this fill up the bucket? Is there a specific depth to shoot for?
shermanator
New member
According to Anthony Calfo, it's one 5g bucket per 100g tank volume. There is no proof of this theory that I have seen (only anecdotal reports), but it does seem to be the most common sizing and from the reports seems to work out correctly.
A 5g bucket is about 0.6 cubic feet. On average, sand is 120 lbs per cf, so you would (roughly) fill the bucket with 72 lbs of sand. In your scenario, the bucket would be ~85% full.
People have looked inside after long periods and claimed they were as clean as when they were setup. That's assuming you are putting in fairly clean tank water (not right downstream of where you are feeding, etc).
They have differrent functions. A remote refugium may not export more than it produces. The refugium you are describing will produce food for the display tank.
The remote DSB that Anthony Calfo describes was strictly for exporting nitrates via denitrification. The 5G bucket is a poor boy version of his original design. A large fish store needed nitrate control for his 5000G system. Anthony installed a 55G tank with 12" of oolite sand. Unfiltered system water was feed to this 55G tank with less than 1" covering surface. High velocity prevented detritus from settling out. Initial nitrates were in excess of 80ppm. After one week nitrates were < 10ppm.
Patrick
In most peoples implementation of DSB methods, robust populations of micro infauna are present in addittion to bacteria. These guys do not export nitrate. They recycle it into their biomass and reproduce to feed the tank. In Calfo's implementation of remote DSB, no worms or other detrivores were added to sandbed. Bacteria performed all the biology with nitrogen gas as the export mechanism.
Patrick
Yes. I prefer to use the word competing. I don't see simultaneous operations as being detrimental. I see it as healthy biodiversity with dynamic equilibrium processing nutrients thru multiple nutrient pathhways that are benificial. It is both nutrient export and recycling of food as spores for a zooplankton gumbo to feed display tank inhabitants. Live food of the most nutritious value: spores from numerous worms in the sediments, amphipods and copepods will pass thru pump impallars and feed fish and hungry anemones. The oils in digestive tract are distributed to an array of differrent filter feeders. This is gumbo of the highest freshness and nutritional value for display tank. If more nutrient export is required prune your macros. If your display has tangs and other herbivores then feed them fresh produce from the refugium for a higher level of nutrient recycling.
The reason that Calfo designed this remote DSB was to deal with high nitrate at a large ornamental fish store of 5000G. In that application, he used a 55G tank with 12" deep oolite sand bed. Water covered the sandbed by 1" max with 10-20 GPM flow across tank surface. Velocity was sufficient that all detritus was carried across tank to the outlet which was fitted with a filter sock over a 55G drum used as a settling basin. Nitrates were exported effectively by this DSB reducing 5K system down to 20 ppm in week 1 and below 10 ppm by week 2 were it stopped reducing significantly more than 10 ppm.
I run most of my production systems above 20 ppm nitrate using ammonia and Miracle grow.
Patrick
I run most of my production systems above 20 ppm nitrate using ammonia and Miracle grow.
Patrick
When I first read the 10 GPH statement that was countered by many posts IRC.
First posts on the original thread 9 years ago by Mr. Calfo (pasted below) - after re-reading this I see no reason why folks are rushing 300 GPH+ over a 5 gal bucket and putting larger sand on top to prevent a "sand storm". What am I missing here?
======================================
08/09/2005, 01:41 PM #46
Anthony Calfo
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not much flow is needed... just enough to keep any solids in the stream suspended and moving on/along. Simply observe and increase as/if necessary
__________________
"If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day... but if you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime."
Current Tank Info: 2K gallon fishroom, garden ponds
==
08/10/2005, 01:09 PM #53
Anthony Calfo
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yep... agreed with our Alaskan friend here:
use clean, dry sand and avoid the baggage.
A DSB bucket should literally cost less than $20 to make (most of which is the cost of the bulkhead unless you skip that altogether and let the bucket gurgle/overflow its sides while sitting in a large open sump)
First posts on the original thread 9 years ago by Mr. Calfo (pasted below) - after re-reading this I see no reason why folks are rushing 300 GPH+ over a 5 gal bucket and putting larger sand on top to prevent a "sand storm". What am I missing here?
======================================
08/09/2005, 01:41 PM #46
Anthony Calfo
Registered Member
Anthony Calfo's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,437
not much flow is needed... just enough to keep any solids in the stream suspended and moving on/along. Simply observe and increase as/if necessary
__________________
"If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day... but if you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime."
Current Tank Info: 2K gallon fishroom, garden ponds
==
08/10/2005, 01:09 PM #53
Anthony Calfo
Registered Member
Anthony Calfo's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,437
yep... agreed with our Alaskan friend here:
use clean, dry sand and avoid the baggage.
A DSB bucket should literally cost less than $20 to make (most of which is the cost of the bulkhead unless you skip that altogether and let the bucket gurgle/overflow its sides while sitting in a large open sump)
Lavoisier
Premium Member
Hi, I am planning to set up a RDSB for my 250 gallon system (DT + sump). Sorry if its already covered in this thread, my questions are;
- How much surface area do i need?
- What shud b the ideal depth of sand bed? (opinions are ranging from 4" to 12")
- Can there be anything like, Oversized RDSB?
Thanks,
- How much surface area do i need?
- What shud b the ideal depth of sand bed? (opinions are ranging from 4" to 12")
- Can there be anything like, Oversized RDSB?
Thanks,
