DSB in a bucket for nitrate control
- Thread starter Hobster
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BH= bulkhead fittings--- if you look you will find pics of how people set theirs up--
you can pu them at the same height in the bucket, but you might want to put an elbow pointed up on the one going back to the tank--- this will raise the water level and keep you from stirring up the sand.
Just figure out some way to run water through a bucket and bact to your sump or tank--- I ihave a loop fed by a maxijet 1200 for mine.
bguile
Premium Member
[QUOTEyou can pu them at the same height in the bucket, but you might want to put an elbow pointed up on the one going back to the tank--- this will raise the water level and keep you from stirring up the sand.
[/QUOTE]
I thought the whole idea behind this was to have it so the detritus didn't have time to settle on top of the water. Wouldn't turning the elbow up cause the water to stagnate?
[/QUOTE]
I thought the whole idea behind this was to have it so the detritus didn't have time to settle on top of the water. Wouldn't turning the elbow up cause the water to stagnate?
psimitry
New member
Well, I built and installed mine today.
Current Nitrate readings are about 10PPM.
Hopefully it'll be undetectable in about a month!
Edit: One thing I'm going to try out is constructing a second one that uses a pair of uniseals coming from the bucket lid that creates a pressurized system for input and output so that it can be below the sump (I have an 18G tank for a sump - it's pretty tall).
The only thing I'm not sure about is whether or not the lid can seal well enough to keep in the water...
Current Nitrate readings are about 10PPM.
Hopefully it'll be undetectable in about a month!
Edit: One thing I'm going to try out is constructing a second one that uses a pair of uniseals coming from the bucket lid that creates a pressurized system for input and output so that it can be below the sump (I have an 18G tank for a sump - it's pretty tall).
The only thing I'm not sure about is whether or not the lid can seal well enough to keep in the water...
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Fastfishracing
New member
Has anyone tried this with a few sulphur beads in the bottom as well, to assist?? If not, do you think this would help in theory? Thanks.
This will probably work but I just want to people to use caution if they try this below the tank (if they don't have a sump)--- the surface area of the bucket lid is fairly large so even a very low height distance can add a significant amount of force.....
It will add about .4 pounds per square inch per foot of height difference.
This doesn't sound like alot but figure a 12" diameter bucket has about 113 square inches of surface area which will equal 45 pounds of force pushing the lid up per foot of height...
Area= pi x Radius squared
4 feet will give you 220 pounds of force pushing up on a 12" lid..
the pump may give you a little more pressure also if you have high flow and the bulkheads are restricting flow...
anyway... just something else to consider... it might be safer to elevate your bucket then to pump it down and back up.
If anyone ever tries this from a tank to underneath, you can greatly reduce the force on the lid by using a smaller lid--- since its a function of area.
I thought the whole idea behind this was to have it so the detritus didn't have time to settle on top of the water. Wouldn't turning the elbow up cause the water to stagnate? [/QUOTE]
It won't stagnate exactly but it can interfere with the flow through it and trap it that way... the flow in mine is still fast 290 GPH through less then 1/2 gallon on top of my sand-- so I turn it over the water volume above my sand every 5 or 6 seconds--- You can work around it several ways...I just wanted as much sand as possible in mine.. so have both my bulkheads at the same height...
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bguile
Premium Member
HUH?
maybe I don't know what this stuff is but how can you pressurize something that eventually lets in air, whether at the drain or the source. Can someone explain this to me, and why would you do something like this? This whole idea seems pretty simple to me from the first page, but leave it to people to find 34 pages of ways to muck it up! :lol:He wants to put the bucket below the level of his tall sump-- seal the bucket (lid) so the water pumped to it comes back to the sump.... if it wasn't sealed the water would flow out of the top of the bucket rather then return to the sump...
Someone about 20-30 pages back used a container with a screw on lid (smaller lid) to accomplish this below his tank-- my above post was to caution others on trying this with a standard bucket.... I work on hydraulic systems and am quite knowledgeable about pressure/area/force issues...
In addition, I would think twice about using uniseals on such a set up and use bulkheads instead...
//edit//
Here is the post with the sealed container below the tank...
has a pic and everything... page 17 of this thread if you display 20 posts per page... (on my setup this is page 43)...
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=6394225#post6394225
Someone about 20-30 pages back used a container with a screw on lid (smaller lid) to accomplish this below his tank-- my above post was to caution others on trying this with a standard bucket.... I work on hydraulic systems and am quite knowledgeable about pressure/area/force issues...
In addition, I would think twice about using uniseals on such a set up and use bulkheads instead...
//edit//
Here is the post with the sealed container below the tank...
has a pic and everything... page 17 of this thread if you display 20 posts per page... (on my setup this is page 43)...
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=6394225#post6394225
bguile
Premium Member
Ohhhhhhhhhhh! :lol:
Ok, so I'm thinking that when I setup my new system I'll plumb the output of my skimmer to the bucket and then have the bucket return to the sump. I will be using an IO bucket that my salt came in and planned to cover it with the lid to keep light out. Is this not good since the return will more than likely be submerged so that I don't get splash noise?
I know I haven't been posting, but I've been following along pretty well. Let's see how I do answering your question.
I see two likely issues with using your skimmer to feed your DSB. First, sending skimmed water to the DSB bucket would be somewhat counter productive. If your skimmer is doing it's thing, there will be very little for the DSB to remove compared to "dirty" water pre skimmer.
Second, I know that I would have all sorts of problems dialing in my Lifereef skimmer if I was creating any backpressure on the output.
I think you would be far better off finding another source to feed your bucket.
Actually, while it may not be a good idea to plumb your RDSB directly from the skimmer, the clean, 'skimmed' water is exactly what you want. It's the nitrates you're after, not any organics. The idea is to have a clean, fast moving flow of water so you don't have to worry about organics accumulating in your rdsb.
and depending on how you plumb it, there won't be any back pressure. if your skimmer is one that has a riser tube to set the water level and you can put your skimmer right next to your bucket, just dump the water from the skimmer out to the bucket via gravity. no extra back pressure, no extra pump.
then the bucket can overflow into the sump either via bulkhead or just over the rim if the bucket is in the sump.
then the bucket can overflow into the sump either via bulkhead or just over the rim if the bucket is in the sump.
Anthony Calfo
New member
both very good points IMO from Larry and vikubz
if the plumbing of the skimmer to this/such RDSB (or any feature) puts back pressure on the already typically sensitve range of skimmers we all use... then its not worth it at all. Don't mess with the skimmer
They are one of the single best ways to export nutrients... exploit it optimally. And while the RDSB may help you with NNR well, there are enough other ways to reduce nitrates. If you cannot plumb the skimmer without handicapping it... don't use it at all here.
that said... however you choose to feed your RDSB, getting particle free/scrubbed water is better than not, by far in the sense that the RDSB is not the optimal place in your system for handling particulates. Instead, we are gunning for the dissolved organics and reducing nitrates largely here.
For managing solid waste... we have skimmers, mechanical filters, and best of all: our corals in other filter-feeding invertebrates! (the best place to be banking solid matter... in invertebrate growth
).
So yes, IMO please do tend to feed your RDSB with particulate-reduced water and you will have less/little maintenance issues with your RDSB.
if the plumbing of the skimmer to this/such RDSB (or any feature) puts back pressure on the already typically sensitve range of skimmers we all use... then its not worth it at all. Don't mess with the skimmer
They are one of the single best ways to export nutrients... exploit it optimally. And while the RDSB may help you with NNR well, there are enough other ways to reduce nitrates. If you cannot plumb the skimmer without handicapping it... don't use it at all here.that said... however you choose to feed your RDSB, getting particle free/scrubbed water is better than not, by far in the sense that the RDSB is not the optimal place in your system for handling particulates. Instead, we are gunning for the dissolved organics and reducing nitrates largely here.
For managing solid waste... we have skimmers, mechanical filters, and best of all: our corals in other filter-feeding invertebrates! (the best place to be banking solid matter... in invertebrate growth
). So yes, IMO please do tend to feed your RDSB with particulate-reduced water and you will have less/little maintenance issues with your RDSB.
fishfeeder
New member
I have followed this thread from the beginning, but I haven't setup my RDSB yet because I was waiting on the results of the people who had used it! With that said I have seen there has been significant result and I now wish to set mine up!
It seems everyone has used some different method as far as the way it is plumbed. Some used a 90 deg on the output, some just straight bulkhead.
Could we get a simplified breakdown from start to finish (construction & plumbing) of the best method everyone has seen to work the best?
Just thought we could clear up a little of the confusion on what parts work and which ones don't!
thanx,
Jay
It seems everyone has used some different method as far as the way it is plumbed. Some used a 90 deg on the output, some just straight bulkhead.
Could we get a simplified breakdown from start to finish (construction & plumbing) of the best method everyone has seen to work the best?
Just thought we could clear up a little of the confusion on what parts work and which ones don't!
thanx,
Jay
psimitry
New member
Actually, that's one of the points I forgot to make in that I planned on making a 2-port pressurized system on the second generation RDSB I plan to build.
The water flowing in will be fed from the second (kinda sorta refugium) portion of the sump and returned to the same chamber - this is after the skimmer has had its time with the water, and after the water has gone through a weekly changed chunk of filter floss.
Therefore, there should be next to no gravity feeding in this pressurized system and even better, very little particulate matter going into the RDSB system.
The water flowing in will be fed from the second (kinda sorta refugium) portion of the sump and returned to the same chamber - this is after the skimmer has had its time with the water, and after the water has gone through a weekly changed chunk of filter floss.
Therefore, there should be next to no gravity feeding in this pressurized system and even better, very little particulate matter going into the RDSB system.
again, you are over analyzing this. bucket, sand, particle free water flowing over
doesn't matter if there is an elbow, a bulkhead, just a feed pipe and overflow the rim, around your elbow, through your legs, over the river and through the woods and into the bucket....
just bucket, sand, waterflow and you're done. you can figure out the plumbing that works best based on your system. it's not going to affect how the rdsb operates.
doesn't matter if there is an elbow, a bulkhead, just a feed pipe and overflow the rim, around your elbow, through your legs, over the river and through the woods and into the bucket....
just bucket, sand, waterflow and you're done. you can figure out the plumbing that works best based on your system. it's not going to affect how the rdsb operates.
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