Weatherman
New member
key word..
pruning
pruning
Dsb's work, what makes them work best?
- Thread starter barryhc
- Start date
Sindjin
New member
I agree with Pruning and chucking to export the PO4. Or you could set up a BB. Just kidding!
Exporting detritus, doing everything possible to not IMPORT too much detritus and a planted refugium, IMO is the best methods to controlling PO4.
Are their any DSB's that are 7+ years that have never shown signs of a DSB "bloom"? I like "bloom" better than "crash".
One thing about a DSB however is water clarity. The sand bed does a good job of keeping fine particulates out of the water.
An Excerpt from Page 4.
Bertoni had mentioned that these processes could be gone into in more detail, and it may be about time.
> barryhc
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6466081#post6466081 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barryhc
So for nitrification, this occurs mostly in aerobic areas of the bed where nutrients are available for our familiar bacteria to process. Sifting and burrowing animals have the effect of keeping this area aerobic as well as avoiding "clumping" and keeping the surface "turned" so that algal mats of various kinds do not take over. Some of these also deplete the "infauna" population and this can be a detriment to the system depending on . . . .
Well, then the infauna help to bring dissolved nutrients into the sand bed for processing, and then help to export them when they are eaten, and then "up the chain" until poop is avilable in the water column for skimming or mechanical removal.
Denitrfication is far less well understood by a large portion of the reef keeping community. Very many aquarists still believe that denitrification occurs in the Anaerobic "zone" ( or areas ) of the sand bed, and this is really quite inaccurate. Many aquarists are well versed in this I realize, but many are not, and more so as we look not so far back in time.
The first and most recognized function of denitrification is the reduction of Nitrite into Nitrate and various other results. This process is carried out primarily in a very thin layer or space in the substrate depth.
It need not be vertical either, but it is described in most studies, as occuring in a "layer" as thin as .5mm between the aerobic and anaerobic zones, and "usually occuring at a depth of approx. 5 to 10 mm's deep in fine sediments that are not disturbed by sifting or burrowing animals".
This "zone" has been described with various terms by both hobbyists and experts alike, often times in contradictory fashion, in all directions, and has been the source of an unbelieveable amount of confusion. I know this for sure, from all the research I've done trying to understand it myself, and the only terms that are not confused in this regard, are "low oxygen", and "Hypoxic".
I like the "low oxygen" term myself, because you just can't confuse that term.
In the "low oxygen" environment, NON-OBLIGATE ( faculative ) Anaerobic bacteria are responsible for reducing Nitrite to Nitrate and other compounds, and this occurs in a ( usually ) very thin layer as stated before.
How thin is this layer actually, especially when "disturbed" or modified by sifting and burrowing animals? I don't know, after 14 mos. of investigation, I'm still trying to find out.
It is now below this "low oxygen" zone, that other processes are carried out by OBLIGATE Anaerobic bacteria, and it is here where Nitrates and other nutrients and compounds are processed into nitrogen gas supposedly, which is somewhat controversial for some reason, and hydrogen sulfide ( again contrversial ), Phosphates "bind and leach", heavy metals "sink", and again, guess what, all controversial.
I believe that all these processes occur in a deep sand bed, to one degree or another, and likely, different in every tank. It is the DIFFERENT in every tank part that has gotten us into this discussion, I'm sure, along with many other things.
I've gotten "long winded" again, not really intending to do so, sorry about that. And I'm no expert, but these again are my observations from very much research.
By the way, algal mats, "binding and leaching", clumping, "sinking", and sifting and burrowing critters, can all be dealt with using a bit of consideration IMO.
Any similar ( or not ) observations?
Happy Reef Keeping ! > barryhc
Bertoni had mentioned that these processes could be gone into in more detail, and it may be about time.
> barryhc
kbmdale
In Memoriam
See I have a secret weapon, a sailfin balloon mollie..Yep a FW fish converted to SW. He munches on algae and is a pig when it comes to food hitting the sand. If you ever seen a mandarin forreging for pods, this mollie does the same for settled food. He constantly is pecking at the sand. He is a model citizen too, never bugs the corals and schools with the chromis. But keep that under your hat or everyone will have a mollie in the tank..lol..very beautiful fish, white with shimmers of baby blue and green...
so he harvest the extra food and algae then my skimmer harvest his poo.
so he harvest the extra food and algae then my skimmer harvest his poo.
Amphiprionocellaris
New member
Big Time. Choice of algae for nutrient export is very important, yet the ease of pruning is often overlooked. I didn't really consider it, and picked Caulerpa as my algae. It grew like a weed, and needed pruning every week. If I didn't prune it weekly, or if I pruned it wrong, it would do its little "turn white while water turns green" thing. It exported lots of nutrients, but IMO was too much trouble (especially when dad took over the tank when I went to school).
Also, as far as fish or other herbivores eating the algae and reconverting the PO4, that definitely happens. The hope, however, is that the fish waste will either be removed or be of a different form. You can't beat manual pruning, though.
And hopefully less particulates, after being broken down to compounds containing phosphates which can then be utilized by something like chaeto. So yes, the whole cycle is in fact quite cyclic (wow, that's deep Peter
). But I think that's when the importance of not overstocking comes into play. As long as the net result is more phosphates being removed (whichever way) than being added (fish food mostly).
kbmdale
In Memoriam
they don't seem to like pods..the do like mysis shrimp though, which seem to appear like mad in all our tanks..see I was breeding them years ago and heard they bread better in SW (oh baby do they). Anyway to make a long story short I have a 29 SW thats been up for 2 yrs that I have been breeding out of regularly. I get about 50 fry a month to the LFS here in town(FW only). The 29 has all the no no's, Cruched Coral substrate not much flow and very little rock (20lbs). I put a few shrooms in there and they got huge. But anyway I do a monthly 15% water change and thats it. It has a modified skilter 250 for a skimmer and a wisper 60 for a filter. The thing is very clean all I have to do is clean the glass. When bree gets back from the store I'll get her to snap some pics. Anyway this one mollie was so pretty I added him to the reef to see what would happen...I have to say I wish I had done it sooner.
GREAT FISH...
GREAT FISH...
Phosphate Fans!
Phosphate Fans!
I think that Randy wrote a very good article on all the basics of phosphate for Advanced Aquarist if I remember the title correctly. Anyway he stated the his number 1 choice for phoshate export was....
Harvesting of macro algea.
Hope that helps.
Phosphate Fans!
I think that Randy wrote a very good article on all the basics of phosphate for Advanced Aquarist if I remember the title correctly. Anyway he stated the his number 1 choice for phoshate export was....
Harvesting of macro algea.
Hope that helps.
