During a power outage with Neptune

[BIGD0G]

Thanks Aleithol for the quick reply and the info. It is very helpful. Yes I am planning to use a 12v battery with the tunze safety connector to supply power for the pumps. I just wanted to make sure the Aquabus modules (VDM in this case) would still be powered from the 12v power port on the base unit itself even if the EB8 that the VDM is connected to did not have power.

My thinking is since I will already have a 12v optima battery to power the tunze pumps why no use it to power the apex base unit so I would still have pump control. This way I do not need to connect a UPS to my system. This should work fine if the VDM will have power via the Aquabus even if not directly connected to the base unit.

See any issues with this approach?

 

[aleithol]

Thanks Aleithol for the quick reply and the info. It is very helpful. Yes I am planning to use a 12v battery with the tunze safety connector to supply power for the pumps. I just wanted to make sure the Aquabus modules (VDM in this case) would still be powered from the 12v power port on the base unit itself even if the EB8 that the VDM is connected to did not have power.

My thinking is since I will already have a 12v optima battery to power the tunze pumps why no use it to power the apex base unit so I would still have pump control. This way I do not need to connect a UPS to my system. This should work fine if the VDM will have power via the Aquabus even if not directly connected to the base unit.

See any issues with this approach?

Should work from everything I've read... Simply have not tried it myself, but look forward to results from your physical test! Hint-hint!

 

[BIGD0G]

Should work from everything I've read... Simply have not tried it myself, but look forward to results from your physical test! Hint-hint!

Great thanks for validating my thoughts. I have all the equipment in place now just need to connect the battery to the Apex and start testing. Unfortunately I am out of town all week so wont be able to test until I get home but once I have tested it will report back.

 

[aleithol]

Safe travels. Look forward to your next update!

 

[BIGD0G]

Ok Bert sorry for the delay in responding however I have been tied up with other things for a while and just today got around to testing everything. I had not programmed my 6105s in the Apex so took me a little time to get that figured out as well.

The good news everything for me worked as I hoped it would. If I lose power then the backup battery will power the Apex base unit (along with the entire Aquabus so all modules still have power and are controllable) and the 6105s via the safety connector. I have it programmed now that if the power goes out the 6105s switch to night mode which for me means one runs at 50% for 10 seconds on and 10 off and the other runs continuously at 40%. Works great.

Just as a review of what I have done. I have a 12v yellow top optima car battery as the backup power source. I have a wire that connects to the 12v power plug on the APEX base unit itself from the battery plus a wire the feeds both 6105 safety connectors. Additionally I have multiple circuits feeding the aquarium and the APEX is on one circuit with the EB8 powering the 6105 pumps on the second circuit. I have tested the apex circuit going down as well as the circuit the 6105 are plugged into going down. In both cases the APEX continues to function properly getting power from the 12v battery. If the Apex circuit is down and the other one is up the pumps operate normally. If the circuit that powers the 6105s goes down then they get power from the safety connector and operate at 50%.

Everything works properly because the Apex controller still has power and can control the pumps.

The only thing that I have found that will shut off the 6105s is when the VDM is disconnected from the aquabus. This makes sense as it can no longer be controlled so it shuts down. Short of that happening the 6105 on my system will run either via 110v power or 12v power until the battery run dead.

Hope this helps and let me know if you have questions about my setup.

 

[aleithol]

BIGDOG -- appreciate the update. Fortunately as long as your VDM is connected to the aquabus, it will receive power and logic from the controller as long as the controller is alive. As you found, the VDM is not smart enough to execute on it's own.

I had to move forward with my build (got water into the tank day before yesterday after a long 6 month build), so my backup plans are set. Given my space constraints to add a different or larger battery set-up, I ended-up bagging the safety connectors and they are now stored on a shelf for posterity-sake. I have my 3 6105s which I already love, running from my VDM and split across dedicated circuits and two different EBs. Two of them are on an EB that receives power from my UPS. My Apex Controller receives power both from that UPS and a 12V wall wart on the alternate circuit. I then have logic built into my Apex if power is lost to notify me, turn off the Tunzes on that UPS to preserve power to the UPS and the controller if the outage is more than a few minutes. The controller should keep going for at least 3 hours that way via the UPS. I plan to enhance the power outage logic based on what circuit(s) are down and such... Anyway, to ensure I have flow should I not be able to get to my tank within a couple of hours, I put in a MP40 as my 4th powerhead with it's own battery backup that requires no external logic when 110V power is cut -- so it goes into operation with some wide flow in the tank and will run for 24hr+ should the emergency arise. While I would have preferred an all-Tunze and Apex solution, and it's more complex than I desired, it will serve it's purpose in this build -- with the side benefit if I ever have Apex and/or VDM issues, some flow will still be available, just as if the MP40 or my WXM goes out, hopefully the controller/VDM will still be chunking along.

Thanks again for the FUP. Enjoy that tank!

 

[PatrikD]

Ok Bert sorry for the delay in responding however I have been tied up with other things for a while and just today got around to testing everything. I had not programmed my 6105s in the Apex so took me a little time to get that figured out as well.

The good news everything for me worked as I hoped it would. If I lose power then the backup battery will power the Apex base unit (along with the entire Aquabus so all modules still have power and are controllable) and the 6105s via the safety connector. I have it programmed now that if the power goes out the 6105s switch to night mode which for me means one runs at 50% for 10 seconds on and 10 off and the other runs continuously at 40%. Works great.

Just as a review of what I have done. I have a 12v yellow top optima car battery as the backup power source. I have a wire that connects to the 12v power plug on the APEX base unit itself from the battery plus a wire the feeds both 6105 safety connectors. Additionally I have multiple circuits feeding the aquarium and the APEX is on one circuit with the EB8 powering the 6105 pumps on the second circuit. I have tested the apex circuit going down as well as the circuit the 6105 are plugged into going down. In both cases the APEX continues to function properly getting power from the 12v battery. If the Apex circuit is down and the other one is up the pumps operate normally. If the circuit that powers the 6105s goes down then they get power from the safety connector and operate at 50%.

Everything works properly because the Apex controller still has power and can control the pumps.

The only thing that I have found that will shut off the 6105s is when the VDM is disconnected from the aquabus. This makes sense as it can no longer be controlled so it shuts down. Short of that happening the 6105 on my system will run either via 110v power or 12v power until the battery run dead.

Hope this helps and let me know if you have questions about my setup.

Found this old thread and have a question for big dog:
As I understand you have the apex base unit connected to the car battery all the time. Is there something you can do with the apex so it only drains the battery during a power outage?

 

[BIGD0G]

Found this old thread and have a question for big dog:
As I understand you have the apex base unit connected to the car battery all the time. Is there something you can do with the apex so it only drains the battery during a power outage?

Nothing that has to be done specifically. If the Apex is getting power from the EB8 then it uses that power. The power from the 12v battery is only used when power from the aquabus (EB8) is not available. Nothing to switch over if the power goes out on your part it just does it internally automatically.

 

[PatrikD]

Thank you very much ! When using Tunze streamers this seems to be a good solution compared to using only one big UPS.

A small UPS is a must have for the internet router though I suppose?

 

[BIGD0G]

Correct. You still need a UPS for the router/cable modem if you have your APEX pushing notifications to you when the power goes out however that only needs to last a few minutes so a small one will do. You want the tank to run still for hours/days. A fully charged car battery will power a couple pumps and Apex for about 3 days.

 

[aleithol]

...A small UPS is a must have for the internet router though I suppose?

Yes, you must also maintain power to your home router so your devices can still get to the internet, otherwise, you have not accomplished much. The side benefit is, if you're not home when the power is out, you will still be able to reach your Apex via Fusion or the traditional dashboard (if you've set it up in advance).

 

[Bala de Plata]

Apologies for thread resurrection, but figured better than starting a new one...

Based on things read here and in other forums like the Apex forum, I have an Apex Base station that I use a re-purposed Belkin Battery Backup to power the Apex via the aux power port.

I also have two Tunze 1073.050 variable speed DC pumps. I picked up one safety connector connected to a second Belkin Back up battery and have wired it to one of the pumps so that at least one will operate in the event of a power outage. However, I have found that even though the Apex base stations power remains on with the above mentioned back ups, the pump will not function at all if the VDM Apex cable is connected. If I disconnect the VDM cable, the pump operates in the fails safe mode using the 12v.

I was under the impression from posts here, that as long as the Apex Base Station has power the pumps will continue to function. Anyone have a similar experience and work around or idea to check?

I have the pump set to 100% speed on apex and pot turned all the way up.

 

[BIGD0G]

What you describe above should work if I understand it correctly. The only thing I can think of is that there may be an issue with your Apex code for the VDM outlet controlling the 1073.050 pump. Can you post it here for review? I am wondering you you have an if power EB8 off then off statement in there.

Post the code and we can review it.

Thanks

 

[Bala de Plata]

Forgot to note that the Tunze will not function AT ALL in any condition with the controller cable from apex plugged in regardless of being on 110 power or back up power. But when the control is removed, it works on 110 and 12v back up.

 

[rvitko]

With the cable plugged in, it is waiting for a signal on the cable, this is the same with Tunze controllers, if you have a cable plugged in but not connected to a controller it won't work.

 

[Bala de Plata]

With the cable plugged in, it is waiting for a signal on the cable, this is the same with Tunze controllers, if you have a cable plugged in but not connected to a controller it won't work.

Sorry if I was not clear, the control cable is plugged into a working Apex Base Unit VDM Port. Without the Safety Connector in the mix, the pump works as intended. When I install the safety connector into the mix and have the control cable plugged in also, pump does not function. Disconnect the control cable, pump functions.

What you describe above should work if I understand it correctly. The only thing I can think of is that there may be an issue with your Apex code for the VDM outlet controlling the 1073.050 pump. Can you post it here for review? I am wondering you you have an if power EB8 off then off statement in there.

Post the code and we can review it.

Thanks

Here is the basic programming for the outlet..

Fallback ON
Set ON
If FeedA 000 Then OFF
If FeedB 000 Then OFF
If FeedC 000 Then OFF
If FeedD 000 Then OFF
If Outlet LeakSnsr = ON Then OFF

As for the VDM Programming, I am using the Apex Fusion Dashboard to keep the pump on 100% from 00:00 to 23:59 (ie 100% all day). EDIT: Found where I can get the read out of the the dashboard into program language..

Fallback ON
tdata 00:00:00,0,0,100,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
tdata 23:59:00,0,0,100,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0

 

[Bala de Plata]

Not sure if this is helpful, but this is my Alarm programming..

Set OFF
If Tank > 84.0 Then ON
If Tank < 76.0 Then ON
If Outlet AlrmPH_High = ON Then ON
If Outlet AlrmPH_Low = ON Then ON
If Power EB8_5 Off 000 Then ON
If Power EB4_4 Off 000 Then ON
If Outlet PwrRestored = ON Then ON
If Power Apex Off 001 Then ON
If Outlet LeakSnsr = ON Then ON
Defer 000:05 Then ON

The PwrNrml programming..

Set ON
If Power EB8_5 Off 002 Then OFF
If Power EB4_4 Off 002 Then OFF
If Power Apex Off 002 Then OFF

and the PwrRestored programming..

Set ON
If Power EB8_5 Off 000 Then OFF
If Power EB4_4 Off 000 Then OFF
If Power Apex Off 000 Then OFF
If Outlet PwrNormal = ON Then OFF
Defer 001:00 Then ON

 

[Bala de Plata]

More to report, a little bit stranger now but kinda resolved for now.

I had only tested this setup on one of my two pumps as it was the one I thought ideal for functioning in a power loss situation.

So when I got home tonight I decided to try it on the other same model pump in same setup. And it works, perfectly as it should and others have experienced.

Switched it back to first pump, and again not functioning. So for some reason one of my pumps works and the other one does not. Same code and all, strange.

Could the "splitter" with the pot knob be bad?

The control cables work with the apex and pumps so j don't think it's a cable issue?

 

[BIGD0G]

Interesting about switching pumps and it works. I would have to agree that it is something in the one pump. Your code all looks good and is not what is turning it off.

I am not familiar with the 1073 pump so not sure what you mean by the splitter. Are you referring to the box where you connect the Apex cable and the safety connector? If so possibly.

One other thing to check is the Apex cable itself. The round end that plugs into the box on the pump. One brand and I do not remember which does not make a good solid connection unless you trim off about and 1/8" of the black plastic around the ring. Once this is done the plug will be able to go further into the box to ensure a better connection. Now that I think about it I suspect this is the problem. My cables where like this and searching here on the forums I found the solution to trim the plastic as others has the same issue. I think it is the Apex brand cables that are like this.

I would bet on the pump that does not work it is not making a good connection and you are getting a little better connection on the other pump but that it is still loose. Once you trim the plastic back a bit you will see it makes a better connection on both pumps and either will work connected to the Apex.

Report back and let us know if this fixes the issue.

 

[Bala de Plata]

Ah, yes those cables have always been tricky to get plugged in and the one I'm having issues with k have had to really push it in. Never thought to trim the plastic on it.

Will definitely give it a try and report back. And yes, splitter being the box the apex control wire and dc power. It also has a red little knob that I understand as potentiometer for manual speed control.