Dying Stonies

[jman77]

Maybe i should have said too sterile. I'm not a chemist, nor scientist so i will not try to play one off, but I've read about this before. You've got a monster of a skimmer on your tank, and bare bottom as well. I think that you are starving the corals from something they require.

the RDSB will take care of the nitrates,

As far as the Phosphates, grow some chaeto.

 

[King-Kong]

Macros still die in my tank. I used to have a refugium a very long time ago, and it just dies, releasing more crap back into the water.

 

[plyle02]

I agree Kong, apparently you are not as sterile as what most people here keep indicating. I think the old school thought that you need a sandbed and you need x amount of LR, is the picture that most LFS's did and continue paint. In fact, I think my tank is just as "sterile" if not maybe a bit more "sterile" than yours, again employing the same philosophy....."Less is More". The only difference being that I added a RDSB fuge, and only due to my nitrates hovering around 10-15ppm on Salifert. Now, last test I did, w/o a w/c in 3 weeks came back at 2.5ppm. There is certainly more here than meets the eye, and it sucks you have to have losses as a result. Since I started this hobby I always like the idea of a refugium, and the balanced eco-system it helps to provide. Again, taking to heart that most bb advocates frown upon the idea of a Fuge or RDSB, I took mine down for only 2 months, only to go back and re-think the philosophy that there "is more than one way to skin a cat". Maybe I am not truly bb, my display is but my system is not. Just a thought......

 

[HBtank]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10956925#post10956925 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by King-Kong
Macros still die in my tank. I used to have a refugium a very long time ago, and it just dies, releasing more crap back into the water.

Don't you find that an odd pre-cursor? I do. Seems like your coral is taking the same route now.

Also, as for aquarium testing.com,, What are their methods for sample shipment, preservation and verification? Do they run sample blanks? What methods are they using, the condition/maintenance of their equipment etc..? Just asking, I work with labs every week and have encountered errors even with all these factors known, I would be wary about some "lab" and one test on one sample..

Anyways, I will beat the "sterile" drum one more time. I know there are many ways to skin a cat, but I spend a lot of time on here etc.. and I have never seen a thriving SYSTEM that was as bare/minimal as yours. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[King-Kong]

Leonardo has 1/2 as much live rock as I do, and his tank is thriving and then some.

What about Bomber's old SPS tank?

There's an entire subforum of BB tankers on thereeftank.com who have thriving SPS systems and are just as minimal.

 

[King-Kong]

oh, and compared to the quality of our in-home tests, I think it's a bit misdirectional to begin nit picking on the finer aspects of aquarium water testing.com.

The quality of the equipment we have, in our homes, has to be a joke compred to theirs. Is there's perfect? I dont know, but if there are enough thriving systems basing numbers on home kits, then I'm not gonna start doubting a professional service like theirs; I think that slope's a bit too slippery.

 

[cutegecko3]

how is the health and coloration of your clams?

 

[King-Kong]

My clams are fine. Coloration has not changed, growth has not changed. I have a Deresa who continues to grow (2 years old in my tank), and 2 croceas.

 

[Canarygirl]

who is out there that could analyze a sample of your coral and diagnose a pathogen if it exists? Can you think of anyone?

 

[King-Kong]

no clue... besides Borneman.. I posted this same thread on his forum @ marinedepot.com 2 days ago, but no response.


edit: just saw why, posted today; "I will be gone to Belize for almost two weeks teaching a class. I apologize for not getting to the exisiting posts,"

 

[cutegecko3]

eric borneman.now your talking.

 

[HBtank]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10957369#post10957369 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by King-Kong
oh, and compared to the quality of our in-home tests, I think it's a bit misdirectional to begin nit picking on the finer aspects of aquarium water testing.com.

The quality of the equipment we have, in our homes, has to be a joke compred to theirs. Is there's perfect? I dont know, but if there are enough thriving systems basing numbers on home kits, then I'm not gonna start doubting a professional service like theirs; I think that slope's a bit too slippery.

I would agree with some parameters..

But in the case of certian parameters they are testing for, I would be worried about preservation. Considering that nitrite, nitrate, and phosphate, generally at a minimum have hold times of 48-hours or less ONLY when perserved by cooling to 4 degrees cesius or less for the entire period before the sample is run. Longer hold times require the use of H2SO4 as a preservative as well as chilling.

I don't see how you can disregard these simple preservation standards. They state it takes 2-3 days before it even arrives, unpreserved. "place them back into the USPS Priority shipping box, affix the pre-paid return shipping label and drop it in the mail! It usually takes 2 to 3 days to arrive at our centrally located lab".

Also, one single sample and test is a pretty narrow amount of data that you are seemingly putting a large amount of weight into.

I would really be interested in learning more about their procedures.. I work with labs everyday, and as I said, even labs with the most strict standards make mistakes. I think the real misderiction is thinking they are somehow infalible, especially if something as straight forward as preservation and hold times are not being followed.

I would trust my home kit more on a fresh sample with many parameters, FWIW.

Just for your info:

http://newenglandtesting.com/publications/Container%20preservative%20holding%20time.htm
http://accutest.com/technicalinfo/holdingtimes/inorganic.htm

 

[King-Kong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10959255#post10959255 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HBtank
I would agree with some parameters..

But in the case of certian parameters they are testing for, I would be worried about preservation. Considering that nitrite, nitrate, and phosphate, generally at a minimum have hold times of 48-hours or less ONLY when perserved by cooling to 4 degrees cesius or less for the entire period before the sample is run. Longer hold times require the use of H2SO4 as a preservative as well as chilling.

I don't see how you can disregard these simple preservation standards. They state it takes 2-3 days before it even arrives, unpreserved. "place them back into the USPS Priority shipping box, affix the pre-paid return shipping label and drop it in the mail! It usually takes 2 to 3 days to arrive at our centrally located lab".

Also, one single sample and test is a pretty narrow amount of data that you are seemingly putting a large amount of weight into.

I would really be interested in learning more about their procedures.. I work with labs everyday, and as I said, even labs with the most strict standards make mistakes. I think the real misderiction is thinking they are somehow infalible, especially if something as straight forward as preservation and hold times are not being followed.

I would trust my home kit more on a fresh sample with many parameters, FWIW.

Just for your info:

http://newenglandtesting.com/publications/Container%20preservative%20holding%20time.htm
http://accutest.com/technicalinfo/holdingtimes/inorganic.htm

What parameters would you trust to a $15-20 home kit over theres?

here's another statement from their site;
"We are very confident in the test results that we provide to our customers. The precision of our tests, (ie reproducibility) is largely dictated by the quality of the equipment used for testing. We use some of the best equipment available for this level of testing, including spectrophotometers, ion specific probes, and digital titrometers. As for the accuracy of the results, we recognized early on that there are limitations in the chemical processes used to test for some of these parameters. We have made every effort to compensate for these inherent variables. Most notably, we have created our own standard curves for most of these parameters, and in several cases have even created “spiked” samples to compensate for various interfering substances, such as sodium, chloride, and magnesium among others. We also recalibrate our equipment weekly, and as a final accuracy check, every test parameter is initially “zeroed out” using a sample of your own water to eliminate any variability among individual samples. As with any testing procedure, the last digit in the reading is the most suspect in terms of accuracy, yet this variability can be waved off as negligible for the purposes of most hobbyists. Scientists routinely deal with this inherent variability using “significant digits.” A deeper discussion of significant digits can be found in any chemistry textbook."

 

[Reefski's]

coral warfare! what softies do you have? mushrooms, green star polyps, i can't tell from the pix.

Carl

 

[King-Kong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10959658#post10959658 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefski's
coral warfare! what softies do you have? mushrooms, green star polyps, i can't tell from the pix.

Carl

a couple ricordia, and a small amount of zoanthids (not palys). Then 3 clams, and 2 LPS. The rest SPS (montis and acros).

No leathers.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Leonardo has 1/2 as much live rock as I do, and his tank is thriving and then some.

He has a RDSB
I never treated my tank only becuase in got better with larger water changes 50% every other day for 2 weeks and BANG it was gone. Now the tank is slaming and i never addded any rocks or sand.
I am telling you its bacterial, how is it all parm are in order and your SPs are dieing? the brown jelly slime gave it away JMO
Michael
Try this take one of your Sps that has not died and dip it in tropic marin pro coral cure and tell me what happens in 3 or 4 days. If it gets better BINGO bacterial if not then look else were.

 

[King-Kong]

I did, and it continued to die, but it was mostly dead already, and I dosed it pretty strong, testing to see if it was flat worms, so that entire act itself may have been the nail in the coffin.

 

[AlgaeMan]

Two Questions:
Do you use a water softener?
What test kit are you using to test alk?

 

[King-Kong]

No water softener. City water at 180ppm TDS.

The referenced test results came from Aquariumwatertesting.com and were also confirmed by my Seachem Alk test.

 

[kenettson1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10956714#post10956714 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by King-Kong
Man, and you've got top quality hardware, too.

Ever sent a water sample out?

I have never sent out a water sample and will stick to home testing.

Well, equipment only gives me the piece of mind that it isn't equipment that makes my reef flourish or fail. Although generally, equipment is overated. You have ot have some but some of these really nice tanks have very minimal equipment and keep it simple. It's typically tank maintenance and planning that make a tank a success, IMO.

After probably six months of SPS death I'm convinced it is an infection or something of that sort. How long woud I have to have no SPS in my tank for something like that to eradicate itself??? 1mos, 2, a year? Guess anyone?