Early signs of ich in display tank.

[dianapickles]

So my fish seem to be scratching against the sand etc. I can't see any spots at the moment and the fish all seem happy, plump and eager to eat, but definite scratching.

It seems that its affecting only the tangs at the moment but ofc in time I'm sure it'll move on to the rest of the fish.

It's really not an option for a quarantine/hospital tank at the moment. I can't afford a tank large enough to place all the fish let alone maintain a second huge tank at the same time.

Is there anything I can do to prevent this from going any further? I've dealt with ich and had many fish survive without the tank going fallow, although I'm at a total loss of how.

 

[Tango451]

One thing that might help a little is to soak food before feeding in something like selcon (fatty acids and vitamins) and garlic xtreme (essentially liquid garlic) not sure if they are in australia or not hence the parentheses.

Also, is your tank a reef tank or fowlr? There are more aggressive methods you could go with in a fowlr, but above should at least help improve their immune system/ shake some parasites if there are any

 

[dianapickles]

I did actually order some type of liquid garlic stuff that I can soak the food in. Could I soak the seaweed too? I also have a flake food called marine plus which claims it has vitamin c and garlic guard in it so for now my fish are getting at least some garlic and seem to be going nuts for it. As far as immunity goes, they all seem happy and eating apart from the scratching.

The tanks a reef so definitely copper etc is a no go. I was thinking hypo salinity as a possibility considering I don't have super sensitive corals yet but I'm not sure how hypo would do in a reef. I've already cut back on lighting and increased the temp a little in the hopes it'll hinder the ich breeding and such.

I'm also waiting on a UV steriliser. I know it won't rid it completely, but at least the free floating ich. + I heard ich hop off when garlic is in food. Considering getting a cleaner shrimp or two for helping get the ich off the fish.

So far that's what I've come up with as a course of action. How does that sound?

 

[Dkuhlmann]

I use Kent's Extreme Garlic and it is an awesome product. Instead of soaking the food in it I dose at 1 drop per 10 gals of actual system water. It usually helps. Now for getting rid of parasites accept ich, you can use PraziPro in your DT without any problems or killing anything accept the fish parasites. I've researched Prazi and used it many years ago. I've got one or two fish doing the head shakes mostly and need to worm them. I'm in the same situation that you're in not being able to have another tank. I have Prazi ordered and it will be here Tuesday I think and will dose right away. See if you can buy it locally, if not many on Ebay with it at about $12.50 for the 4 oz bottle.

 

[Deberber]

Also, go ahead and check your water parameters. Something may be off that has stressed out your fish. If it is something with that, go ahead and fix it. Take away the stress and their immune system should be back up to fight it.

 

[SpSChief85]

Also, go ahead and check your water parameters. Something may be off that has stressed out your fish. If it is something with that, go ahead and fix it. Take away the stress and their immune system should be back up to fight it.

+1^ your taking the right measures, don't stress too much until they stop eating... then stress, my advice you say the tangs seem to be the only ones scratching, if you have any tank available no matter how small Within reason of course, catch the tangs and put them in it and treat them that is if they stop eating and you can clearly see the white spots... I've freaked out over seeing little white spots on a hippo tang before to find out it was some particles present in the tank, if you have mutiple tangs and do not have a cleaner wrasse I highly suggest 1 or 2. A plus the symbiotic relationship is so neat... and my cleaner wrasse cleans the bubbles from my hands when I have to go in... really cool my old skarlet cleaner shrimp used to fly off the aquascape to my arm and show me love too although it felt creepy like a spider on me it was really cool.

 

[dianapickles]

+1^ your taking the right measures, don't stress too much until they stop eating... then stress, my advice you say the tangs seem to be the only ones scratching, if you have any tank available no matter how small Within reason of course, catch the tangs and put them in it and treat them that is if they stop eating and you can clearly see the white spots... I've freaked out over seeing little white spots on a hippo tang before to find out it was some particles present in the tank, if you have mutiple tangs and do not have a cleaner wrasse I highly suggest 1 or 2. A plus the symbiotic relationship is so neat... and my cleaner wrasse cleans the bubbles from my hands when I have to go in... really cool my old skarlet cleaner shrimp used to fly off the aquascape to my arm and show me love too although it felt creepy like a spider on me it was really cool.

Haha the scarlet cleaner shrimp part made me giggle a little.

I'll definitely wait it out a little. I don't want to stress them any more than they should be. I'd love to get a cleaner wrasse actually, they seem awesome.

Also, I do have an empty 50 gallon which I could possibly set up as a hospital tank but I have 4 small tangs and a naso. If it comes to the need, is that a reasonable size in an emergency? 4 tangs in a 50 gallon sounds like I'll be sent to hell instantly :lmao: Althought it is only the hippo and yellow tang that are scratching.

I was worried having 5 tangs in my tank (quite large) might cause aggression, thus stress...but they don't pick on each other at all. I'm assuming the space outweighs the whole "conspecific" thing and fighting for food isn't a problem.

 

[dianapickles]

Also, go ahead and check your water parameters. Something may be off that has stressed out your fish. If it is something with that, go ahead and fix it. Take away the stress and their immune system should be back up to fight it.

My params are all normal with the exception of nitrates and phosphates. Could that be stressing out the fish? 20ppm nitrates and phosphates at 1ppm.

The tank is only a few months old so I'm assuming it's still maturing in terms of the algae/nutrients etc but I'm waiting on my media reactor & media to help. Although the water changes are ofc murdering those nitrates. :uzi:

 

[Dkuhlmann]

The problem is that if you have any fish that are positively ID'd as having Ich you will have to pull all of your fish out and let the DT fallow for at least 72 days. This means ALL FISH. I would try the Prazipro as long as all of your fish are eating well. If not find some food that the picky eaters will eat, many of the frozen mixes usually get most fish to eating very well. Doing Prazi will make many fish not eat during the duration of the treatment, at least it can. But scratching alone doesn't mean that they have Ich.

 

[Deberber]

The problem is that if you have any fish that are positively ID'd as having Ich you will have to pull all of your fish out and let the DT fallow for at least 72 days. This means ALL FISH. I would try the Prazipro as long as all of your fish are eating well. If not find some food that the picky eaters will eat, many of the frozen mixes usually get most fish to eating very well. Doing Prazi will make many fish not eat during the duration of the treatment, at least it can. But scratching alone doesn't mean that they have Ich.

The thing is that ich is going to be in pretty much any tank. It's just a matter of the fish being able to fight it off with there immune system, just like we fight things off everyday without noticing, so do fish.

Since your tank is only a few months old, it's just still adjusting. So something may have happened that upset your delicate tangs that you don't even know about. It will most likely just go away on its on with water quality and proper nutrition.

 

[dianapickles]

The problem is that if you have any fish that are positively ID'd as having Ich you will have to pull all of your fish out and let the DT fallow for at least 72 days. This means ALL FISH.

If they do have ich, the only tank I have to use as a quarantine tank is a 50g. I have about 17 fish, 5 of them being tangs. A tang alone in a 50g is just crazy and a naso tang being one of them.
Any larger tank is out of the question in terms of money, life, practicality etc.

If it's okay to have all those fish in such a small quarantine tank all together as a last case resort and it's something people do then I guess I could try but if not, then I'm not sure what else to do other than what I've already said.

I have actually had ich in my old tank before. It killed a lot of my fish and only a few survived. I never took those fish out but for weeks I never added any new fish. After that, I never ever had an ich problem again. I'm not sure why. I'm sure it only takes one fish for them to reproduce. It could be that my tank had ich and for all the time and no fish ever got it again but that seems just as unlikely as the ich disappearing completely with a tank that didn't go fishless.

The only thing I could think of that got rid of the ich was polyp labs medic. It's apparently reef safe but ofc as everyone says reef safe meds never work. However IME, that's literally the only thing that makes sense. I might have to give that a go again as a last resort and hope for a miracles I guess?

 

[Dmorty217]

Im assuming you didn't QT? Scratching can mean many things, none of which are good. Just because you don't see spots doesn't mean there isn't ich present. Could also be flukes. Hypo won't work in a reef tank unless you want to kill your "reef" I would read up on disease and treatments and get yourself a QT. Velvet can be brought into your tank just as easily as ich can be and that wipes out tanks. It's your time and money

 

[Dmorty217]

Setup the 50g and take your corals out and do hypo in the DT. 17 fish in a 50g will never work. I'm not convienced its ich

 

[dianapickles]

The thing is that ich is going to be in pretty much any tank. It's just a matter of the fish being able to fight it off with there immune system, just like we fight things off everyday without noticing, so do fish.

Since your tank is only a few months old, it's just still adjusting. So something may have happened that upset your delicate tangs that you don't even know about. It will most likely just go away on its on with water quality and proper nutrition.

I was hoping someone would say this. I've read somewhere that ich could in a way be compared to fleas. Although ofc fleas have never killed as ich can. But in the way that fish should be able to fight it off if their immune system is in check.

In my previous reply I was saying that my old tank had ich and then it just "never showed up again". I'm sure it didn't just magically disappear or never affect my fish ever again. Like you said, ich is going to be in pretty much every tank. So maybe my fish just built up a good immunity and were able to fight it?

Anyway, thanks for the hopeful words. It's nice to have someone make you feel a bit better about a situation like this. No one likes ich :lolspin:

 

[dianapickles]

Setup the 50g and take your corals out and do hypo in the DT. 17 fish in a 50g will never work. I'm not convienced its ich

That's not a bad idea actually. I think I might wait to make sure it's ich before I do anything so I know what I'm treating to start out with. Would I have to take hermits out if treating with hypo or copper?

Also, thank you so much I never thought of it the other way around. Your idea could be a life saver here if worst comes to worst.

 

[gone fishin]

I personally do not believe ich is in about every tank. I do not really care to get in to another of those debates.

If indeed your fish have ich then either you manage the ich in the tank by good diet and water quality and hope they fight it off.

If you choose to treat ich then all the fish must be removed and treated along with the tank being fallow. There are numerous stickies in the fish disease forum on the topic.

 

[Dmorty217]

That's not a bad idea actually. I think I might wait to make sure it's ich before I do anything so I know what I'm treating to start out with. Would I have to take hermits out if treating with hypo or copper?

Also, thank you so much I never thought of it the other way around. Your idea could be a life saver here if worst comes to worst.

Hypo kills everything but fish and macro algae basically. It is NOT foolproof and there are hypo resistant strains of ich. Also it's extremely difficult to keep salinity at 1.008 and the second it goes above that the clock starts over at day 1. Also ich ISN'T in all tanks and only gets in your tank thru taking shortcuts. Not all fish can live with ich either. Good luck

 

[dianapickles]

I personally do not believe ich is in about every tank. I do not really care to get in to another of those debates.

If indeed your fish have ich then either you manage the ich in the tank by good diet and water quality and hope they fight it off.

If you choose to treat ich then all the fish must be removed and treated along with the tank being fallow. There are numerous stickies in the fish disease forum on the topic.

I couldn't debate against that anyway, considering I really have nothing to back that up, nor do I believe one or the other 100%. A year later into the hobby and I'm still learning. I won't take my chances regardless.

If they do have ich, I'll take out my corals and treat the display that way. I can't quarantine 17 fish that's out of the question but the other way around I can do.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

The thing is that ich is going to be in pretty much any tank. It's just a matter of the fish being able to fight it off with there immune system, just like we fight things off everyday without noticing, so do fish.

Since your tank is only a few months old, it's just still adjusting. So something may have happened that upset your delicate tangs that you don't even know about. It will most likely just go away on its on with water quality and proper nutrition.

I'm well aware of that. But infected fish need to be treated until they can build up that immune system. But again, we're assuming the OP has Ich and in all honesty it might not be. Currently no visual signs of ich only scratching and flashing. It very well might be flukes. At least with Prazi it will treat most worms.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Setup the 50g and take your corals out and do hypo in the DT. 17 fish in a 50g will never work. I'm not convienced its ich

X2. But to do hypo you need to get your water to 1.009 if it's any higher you're not killing it.