Ecotech Radion ~vs~ AquaIllumination SOL ~vs~ Vertex Illumina
- Thread starter Jeremy B.
- Start date
reef bloke
Member
As far as I'm aware the LED's used in these units don't emmit UV or infra red as such which is where you might see a short fall in PAR numbers compared to flouro tubes and halides which do.
Someone would have to confirm if PAR meters read UV and IR but I imagine they would.
Someone would have to confirm if PAR meters read UV and IR but I imagine they would.
Last edited:
chadfarmer
Premium Member
i have AI u can come see them local if you want and play with them
Robb in Austin
New member
I'm assuming an Apogee Instruments meter is being used to measure PAR.
Here is a Apogee website showing the response range of their sensors.
http://www.apogeeinstruments.com/quantum/spectralresponse.html
Here is a Apogee website showing the response range of their sensors.
http://www.apogeeinstruments.com/quantum/spectralresponse.html
SPotter
Active member
They told me I would need 4 on a 60/36/30. theres a shop on the west coast thats doing a test on there 14ft/36"/30" with radions and mh. They have 12 radions on half of the tank and say they look great. Based there numbers i would need 6-8 on my set up.
Steve
Last edited:
wayne in norway
New member
That's what I'd like to see as well. I am always mystified why everyone in the AI threads rambles on about needing to turn them down to stop bleaching their corals - well why don't you just buy less units and put all 70deg optics on and save yourself some buying and running costs?
Also the thing with PAR meters is a problem of blue light vs. white light ( or other spectral components) as the linked Apogee graph shows, not of LED vs. T5 vs. MH.
But I'm very pleased to see this thread - kudos to Premium Aquatics for this!
Also the thing with PAR meters is a problem of blue light vs. white light ( or other spectral components) as the linked Apogee graph shows, not of LED vs. T5 vs. MH.
But I'm very pleased to see this thread - kudos to Premium Aquatics for this!
reefsurfing
New member
He was simply trying to state that forms of lighting other than LED have a wider range of radioactive variation within the lighting source and therefore will innately produce higher and more balanced numbers. While LED fixtures on the other hand dont have the broader spectrum to balance out the apogees' deficiencies in reading lights in the blue spectral range. The source is very narrow and gives us much lower readings when looking at LED but it is a good comparison from one unit to the next depending on the ratio of LED spectrum involved. One good example is the Sol Blue and Sol White; initially it was contended that the sol white put out higher numbers and it was pointed out this was incorrect due to the sensors in ability to "see" blue LEDs. I believe Sanjay posted an article related to the topic which explains it much better than I ever could. Something to do with all those letters added to his name (Ph d); it was a good read.
rtparty
Raise The Reef!
PAR meters don't pick up infrared and UV. Most of them have a specific range of 400nm-700nm. Within that range they over read the reds and under read the blues.
heckeng
New member
I would imagine that AI will come out with some different LED clusters that you can install. They are upgradable, very similarly to how the Radions are upgradable. You can remove the cluster and simply plug in a new one. If AI comes out with a cluster that has warm white, you could plug them in with just removing a couple screws. Then, what I would do is use two of the warm white clusters and leave the other two the original clusters. As far as adding more than 3 colors of LEDs, you are right, the AI Sol is likely out of luck there.
I agree though, the Radion has some advantage in the color department right now but I love that my AIs don't need a huge power supply. The programming of both units is great though, I love that feature.
I agree though, the Radion has some advantage in the color department right now but I love that my AIs don't need a huge power supply. The programming of both units is great though, I love that feature.
heckeng
New member
I don't think you necessarily have to lose intensity to gain colors. I don't know what fixture you were using, but it sounds like it didn't have enough blue available for your particular tastes if you had to turn the white down to see more blue. There could be two advantages for more colors or really spectrums.
1. The corals COULD respond positively (this remains to be seen at this point regarding the addition of the Red and Green LEDs)
2. the individual's taste in color spectrum could be made more happy by the addition of those colors. i.e. it would look better to the viewer.
At 50% on each white/blue/royal blue on my AI's, they put out something very similar to my Phoenix 14k MH and ATI T5 actinic fixture. Overall brightness seems dimmer but the colors are better.
1. The corals COULD respond positively (this remains to be seen at this point regarding the addition of the Red and Green LEDs)
2. the individual's taste in color spectrum could be made more happy by the addition of those colors. i.e. it would look better to the viewer.
At 50% on each white/blue/royal blue on my AI's, they put out something very similar to my Phoenix 14k MH and ATI T5 actinic fixture. Overall brightness seems dimmer but the colors are better.
maxxII
Super Housemonkey!
I've posted this elsewhere on this board, but its a good read for folks who are contemplating switching to LED's from other forms of lighting. It also explains pretty well why people are bleaching out corals with LED's....
Things to beware of when changing to LED's
Nick
Things to beware of when changing to LED's
Nick
First for the PAR measurements in the water I kept this pretty plain and simple. All pendants were 12" from the surface of the water for this first measurement. I took a PAR reading directly under the center of the module. I then took a measurement that was 6" to the left of center of the module, then 12" to the front of the module. The reason I went with 6" is because the AI drops off to far going further than that, and for comparison sake it just didn't make sense for this test. You could also argue that the way I have the Illumina and Radion hanging is actually front to back, instead of left to right. Take it for what you want, but the numbers give you an idea.
PAR Numbers
AquaIllumination
Center: 510
6" Left: 180
12" Forward: 120
Vertex Illumina
Center: 118
6" Left: 113
12" Forward: 109
Ecotech Radion
Center: 215
6" Left: 148
12" Forward: 130
From the conclusion through water at this height you can definitely tell what a difference directional optics can make.
The Illumina is not meant to be ran high off the water since it does not use any primary or secondary optics. If you have to run your fixture high up, I would not suggest going this route.
The Ecotech, while not using the typical optics we are familiar with, does use them and it's a good blend of good par values and spread at 12".
For SPS junkies that need to run their fixture high up off the surface of the water the AI would be the best choice here. While you can see the drop of PAR once you get out underneath the module itself, it's a real beast when you're directly under it. The downside is that you do need to run quite a few modules butted up together if you want a more smooth distribution of PAR levels within the tank. This could be both good and bad depending upon placement of corals in the tank.
In regards to the radion,
Do you think there is any different in mounting the unit the way you have in comparison to sideways in terms of PAR?
I have a 24x12x16 20 gallon, and have been wondering if the spread and PAR numbers would be distributed enough placing it with LEDS from front to back as opposed to sideways.
Dustin1300
Reefaholic
Jeremy, hope you're at PA today. I'll be there at noon this Saturday hoping that anything unforeseen does not happen today
Can't wait to check out these fixtures!
Can't wait to check out these fixtures!reef bloke
Member
I'm a little confused about the addition of red and green led's. Obviously the light may look visibly biased towards another colour to our eyes but as white LED's contains RGB spectrum is the addition of extra Red/green better for the corals or just viewing?
