Ecsenius garveri SPAWNING?!

mwp

In Memoriam
OK, the wierdest, strangest thing I've seen yet is this. I just looked at the tank and the larger of our two Ecsenius graveri is running around with a couple "spots" on him. They're way too big to be "Ich" (which was initially ran through my head). Then I thought "fungus".

Well, upon closer inspection it's not any type of parasite or fungus, unless there's a parasite or fungus that looks like FISH EGGS! I have NO CLUE if/when/where/how they spawned, but a couple eggs and enlarged ventral opening on the larger of the two definitely SUGGESTS a spawn.

I'm trying to get some pictures, but these guys haven't been photographed before, so they're not USED to it and are proving to be uncooperative.

Crazy times....

MP
 
GOT A PIC that shows it! One egg was left on the right ventral fin...

111035DSCN0872_Ecsenius_graveri_wegg.jpg


MP
 
Clearly an egg! They are supposed to be cave spawners where on - mostly the male - is guarding and ventilating the eggs. So there should be a clear behavior change and on would stay more close to his home hidout. Be aware that the egg guard could show aggressions towards his partner. To my information all blennies do not from real pair with a longterm bond.
 
Very strange how it's stayed attached to the ventral fin...those must be some super sticky eggs! I'm wondering if we'll see some larvae or eggs somewhere...so far no luck locating any nest.

MP
 
YEEEE HA! Today everything is going nuts. First, baby GBG's hatch. Then the margaritophorus spawn again. Of course, the leptacanthus have a mouthful due to be let out tonight or tomorrow night. But now, MAN, we have a 2nd and 100% CONFIRMED SPAWNING of Ecsenius graveri.

I got a few pics of the female on her small patch of eggs...roughly 30-40 maybe. SWEEEEEEET! Now if I can only figure out what the heck to do with them. And of course, we have a move coming up sometime this week or early next week - that's throwing a wrench in all the breeding plans!

I'll post some pics when I get a chance!

MP
 
By the way, I think it's important to note how I came to find out they had spawned. I went to feed the tank and noticed the larger E. graveri was "absent". Only when I started searching the tank did I see the larger (female) graveri sitting in a "different" spot than her usual resting place, and she was in "stress" coloration (White barring and such). Closer examination revealed the eggs sitting on the rock directly underneath her.

So there ya go..if your blennies go missing, start looking for eggs (if you have a pair or more of the same species!).

MP
 
Wow,

When I get my breeding setup going, remind me to get some of your water, it is a breeding frenzy in your tank!

Brian
 
111035DSCN0874_Ecsenius_graveri_femalewitheggs.jpg


Same fish as the one pictured above. The eggs are impossible to miss this time around!

MP
 
And just like that, they're gone! That's like 5 hours from the time I noticed them to the time they've disappeared? I'm suspecting someone ATE them but who knows for sure...don't see any larvae around and the main suspects would likely be the cleaner shrimps or hermit crabs...or the blenny that was guarding them.

HMM

Matt
 
Matt,

Congratulations on the spawning. Sorry about the eggs. I seems a little odd that they wouldn't spawn in a cave or hole. I wonder if it is possible that a female would lay eggs without a male present and then eat the unfertilized eggs.

I have two E. graveri as well. Is there any noticable differences that you can tell between male and female. I have heard of a swelling around the vent, but mine don't stay still enough to get a good look.
 
Hey phender - yeah, your pair was an inspiration :)

I too wonder if I may have 2 females, but that's only a slight wonder. When I got these in, I "vented" them (examined the vents while holding the fish upside down in a wet net). Their ventral openings looked different to the naked eye, so that might be a safe way to sex them.

I got these from LiveAquaria.com and when ordering, specified that I was looking for a pair, so if there were any compatible pairs in their holding tanks, that would be my first choice. If NOT, I also included the sexing info cited from a blenny article online (stating the differences in size, dorsal fin anatomy and ventral openings). I'll see if I can dig up a URL to the older post where I included that info.

For the most part my two get along, but the large one definitely dominates now and both have some fin damage...nothing major and it may in fact be from the mated pair of Onyx Percs or the lone Purple Firefish, all of which behave somewhat aggressively to the blennies.

I agree, the location for a spawning site was "wierd" but what you can't see in the photo is that it is a "shelf" underneath a large colony of wood's polyps, so it is KINDA like a cave. What I find really strange is that it's on the far opposite corner of where the female USUALLY hangs out. Perhaps the smaller fish (male? in our pair) selected the nest site and "lured" the female over there?

It's all guesswork for now..we'll see!

Matt
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6839866#post6839866 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CirolanidHunter
Wow,

When I get my breeding setup going, remind me to get some of your water, it is a breeding frenzy in your tank!

Brian

Good 'ole Chicago Tap, currently mixed with Reef Crystals.

I'm adding Reef Plus, Reef Complete, Reef Calcium, Reef Builder, Reef Buffer, Reef Iodide (notice a running seachem theme?) - all supplements are somewhat on an "as-needed" basis. I've "cut back" a bit but am still adding Kent's Iron as well, mostly in the cardinalfish tank which is heavily covered in macroalgaes.

Planktonic feeds include Rotifers, Live Nannochloris, Live Nannochloropsus, Live Tetraselmis, as well as Liquid Life's Bioplankton, and occasional uses of DT's / Phytoplex / Phytofeast Live.

Macro Feeds - the mainstays in the cardinalfish tank are Cyclopeze, Hikark Enriched Brine & Mysis, SF Bay Enriched Brine and Spirulina Brine. To a lesser extent, the cardinal tank also gets OSI Spirulina Flakes, Tetra Marine Staple Flakes and Granules. These three dry foods are the mainstain in the Clownfish/Blenny tank, with the aforementioned being thrown in periodically as well. I sometimes soak frozen foods with Selcon, but maybe only 25% of the time.

Live Feeds - infrequently live adult brine, usually enriched with selcon, is fed. To a lesser extent still, brine nauplii. Very occasionally I'll have some "Tiggerpods" to add to the tanks (the cardinalfish ABSOLUTELY LOVE THESE) and even rarer still, occasionally I have some amphipods thrown in.

Water quality wise, everything is kept relatively perfect. Nitrates are "high" according to the cheap liquid tests, but on most days the Seachem test comes back with levels under 5 ppm. All the corals (including SPS) grow well, so I trust the Seachem results.

So there ya have it. Good salt, TONS of variety in the feeds, and good water quality.

Of course, the thing that hits me as being most "unusual" or "different" about our two tanks is that there is only ONE fish that is a "solo"; our Purple Firefish. Every other species we keep, there are at least two, and for the most part, they were purchased with the intent of getting pairs. Some, like the Blennies and Greenbanded Gobies, were just basically purchases of "2" fish...luck. Still others were purchased as likely or compatible pairs. In the case of our true percs, at the time I was working in a shop and placed our pair side-by-side for several days before finally intrucing the larger female into the smaller male's quarters. The standard Firefish - I watched a large group in a tank until I selected likely mates based on interactions between fish in the group. The mandarins, well, we got lucky enough to find a female and placed a male with her. There ya go.

In the cardinalfish, we started with groups. The bangaii's were 5 tank raised juvies that we watched until we had a solid pair, then removed the other 3. The Threadfins - based on size and finnage I tried to select 2 males and 2 females - one suspected male kicked the bucket, and of course in the end it turns out with the three remaining fish that the females were the males and vice versa. Of course, the largest shortcut to successful breeding was the 2m/1f trio of Apogon margaritophorus - I picked them up with one of the males holding a clutch, so that was a no brainer.

In the end, no fish is going to breed successfully if you only have one of 'em in the tank. We've had spawns in all the cardinalfish now (3 species), the GBGs (4 spawns now), and now the blennies. So that's 5 species. The percs...well, they've been cleaning for weeks now, so it's only a matter of time before we get to 6. The firefish I suspect have been breeding all along since about 1 month after their introduction, but I haven't had any means of confirming this. The Mandarins have courted several times and possibly have spawned without our knowledge (once in a while the female goes from very plump to "thin" overnight...not much else is going to cause that much weight loss other than a spawning).

So again, in the end, I think there's SO MUCH spawning activity NOT because of the feeds, the conditions etc. I think it's simply because we have given the fish the opportunity to do what comes naturally by making sure there are the proper partners available!

FWIW,

MP
 
Hi Matt,

I went back an looked at the reefkeeping.com article on blennies again. My larger blenny definitely has fleshy ends on his anal rays which along with his overall size would make him male even without looking at his vent. My smaller fish is certainly a female. Now if I can just find the male's hide out. It seems to be in the back of the rock work :(. Now that I know I have a male and a female, their behavior (his especially) makes me think that they may be spawning as well.
My guess it that your larger fish is a male also and he got the the eggs stuck to his belly while he was guarding them.
 
First, I swear I'm not making this up just to try to be as cool as Matt. :)

This morning, before work, I was watching my female hover in her spot and the male shot out and chased her for just a second. I watched carefully to determine where the male had retreated to. To my surprize, when I found the male's hiding place (a small ledge with an overhang) there were two fish there side by side and one was doing a shimmy. I looked again a little later when the male was by himself but I could not see any eggs and the female still looked plump. I am anxious to get home today to see if they may have spawned while I was away.

Thank you Matt for posting your info. I may have never bothered to give my pair a closer look if you hadn't.
 
Phil, that's great news...keep us all posted! I'll have to observe my fish more thoroughly this coming week during the move...might get a better look at the vents etc.

Indeed, those could be eggs stuck on "him" vs. "her" ;)

MP
 
BTW, I'm really shocked not to see more info on species that EVERYONE keeps, like Ecsenius bicolor. No doubt E. graveri is very similar in breeding and rearing to what E. bicolor would be....however everyone and their mother seems to have kept E. bicolor. Granted, perhaps not may people are keeping 2 or more per tank, and it's such an inexpensive species there's really no incentive to breed.

MP
 
Yesterday my female was noticably thinner. I checked the males "shelf" and it looks like there are eggs. It is very difficult to see in and he is usually in the hole, but I lured him out with some food and I am pretty sure I see eggs. I will try to keep an eye on them and see if I can get a hatch time.(If they are actually eggs).

Granted, perhaps not may people are keeping 2 or more per tank, and it's such an inexpensive species there's really no incentive to breed.
That and educational institutions have no reason to raise them because they offer no research or food value. Still, you would think someone would have done it.
 
Phil, congrats on a likely spawn. I bet they're going at it like every 10-14 days, of course that's just a guess based on the time period between the first and 2nd spawn in our tank.

I've been scouring the info available for the Canary Blennies...not much out there other than "S Strain, S-Strain, S-Strain"! The biggest "hope" is that maybe, just maybe, we can learn something from the fact that a "similar" blenny is being commercially reared - http://www.proaquatix.com/speciesdetail.asp?ID=47 - I must admit I hadn't even seen the species personally until just this year, and only then as Captive Raised. I bet this is the "closest" species to E. graveri, and thus if info is ever made available, I'm sure it would help us with the Mimics ;)

MP
 
Back
Top