Effect of frag trade on local merchants - Feedback wanted

[smp]

I would just like to point out to those that might take this hobby for granted (and I'm not accusing anyone).
I live in Canada, and we don't have the same access to the stuff that you guys in the states do, but we still have it pretty good compared to most other countries I can think of.
This hobby is all about expendable income and access to goods. I'm lucky that I can buy my dry goods from retailers in the states and online retailers in Canada. The only reason I go to the local LFS that charges me an arm and a leg for anything is to get small odds and ends. The other day I bought a small zoo frag on impulse because it was nice, but I way overpaid for it.

 

[RicksReefs]

I see 3-4 wholesale pricelists every week. if I have a customer that wants a particular acan, I can't get it from a wholesaler, it just doesn't work that way. But being frag freindly, I have some pretty good ideas on who to call to see if they're fragging any soon. all of my aquacultured stock that i grow, came from frag trades with other hobbyists. I even have a half dozen retail tanks in the store for aquacultured stuff with a dozen or so out back for in store aquaculture too. I think any local retailer that's willing to work with successful hobbyists and buy their healthy extra stuff will get a better selection in the store and (as long as the hobbyist is reasonable in how much to expect in return) you get a lower priced array of corals that people love to snap up.

if someone wants an orange monti and can't get it locally...well, then the LFS just sent him online to find it...

 

[Kalkbreath]

One must consider where hobbyists come from?
Why are there no local Reef clubs in cities that dont have any salt water LFS?
If all the Fish stores in your city dried up , how long would it take your local reef club to do so as well?
Can a reef club continue to spawn new members from within?
Where do reef tank hobbyists come from?
How many club members started their tanks prior to becoming a club member?
Would it have happened with out an LFS to visit in the early stages deciding to get into a tank?
Again I point to the fact that in cities with out an local LFS , reef clubs are few and far between.
Be careful how you approach taking away business from your local shops.
They may take their business somewhere else as well...........

 

[reefshadow]

Economics aside, aquaculturing is the right way to go whenever possible.

Btw, I have to drive 2-3 hours to get to ANY lfs, and most of my frags go to them and are then marked up 2-3 times above the credit I got for them. And I get CREDIT, not cash. I also am known to bring a couple hundred additional dollars that are spent in the same store. So, economically, they are the clear winners. They get to see the merchandise first hand and get a much better profit margin than if they order. The money also stays in the store, with no cash layout.

Of course, it doesn't really address your specific question, but I bet alot of hobbiests in the states bring the majority of their frags to a lfs, and have fewer opportunities to trade amongst themselves.

It's nice when lfs's are frag friendly and even nicer when they will host periodic swaps.

There is also ALOT of live merchandise (most, actually) that is not being aquacultured by hobbiests, and only an lfs can provide. Most likely that huge market will never be overtaken by a group of people fragging their corals at the kitchen table.

I say swap away.

 

[RicksReefs]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6581078#post6581078 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefshadow
Most likely that huge market will never be overtaken by a group of people fragging their corals at the kitchen table.

the market will not only be overtaken by aquaculture, it will be replaced by it within 10 years or so, once the government steps in and bans importation.

 

[reefshadow]

I hope you're right

But my meaning was more that you aren't going to have average hobbiests that do fragging from their tanks growing out larvae and producing clams, ornamental shrimp, most reef fish, etc... As long as importation still exists that is most likely going to be the source for those organisms.

 

[RicksReefs]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6585160#post6585160 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefshadow
I hope you're right

I hope I'm not. I'd rather see the hobby clean itself up a little and keep the government out of the picture just for the resons you mentioned. blue leg hermit crabs will cost 20 bux a pop and blood shrimp will be 200. fish selection will be severly curtailed and veeery expensive.

it's like the florida/carribean corals, if you had them before the ban, your OK, but now, they're almost impossible to get.
if they ban importation of marine life, a hermit crab that we take for granted at a buck or two will be priced outragously, along with everything else we can't spawn in captivity yet.

the upside is, whoever breaks the secret to spawning a now unspawnable species, will clean up for a year or two...

but ya, the average joe isn't usually going to break a LFS's back by fragging a couple times a year, but they are likely to be the ones on the front lines of new husbandry/spawning techniques.
just check out jen&kerry's posts here on RC about goniopora cultivation, previously unheard of good stuff. along with slews of others doing the same with other goodies.

 

[reefshadow]

Nah, I don't hope that importation is banned, we need LESS government invading every aspect of our lives, not more. I DO hope that aquaculture can eventually take over much of collection and importation, that would be great imo. But research is usually pretty specific and most hobbiests don't have the time, money or inclination to pursue it, even with species that are easy to induce spawning in- like ornamental shrimp, many species of gobies and other fish, etc...

I think it's great that hobbiests are propagating more and more species of coral every year, but afaik in every case it is taking advantage of the tendency of many corals to reproduce asexually, by fission. Awesome example above, with Jennkerrys gonis. I don't think they are going to break any lfs's market by producing a few goni babies a year, though it is an awesome advance in the hobby.

I guess my point is that I really don't see much of a problem with competition at this point. You've been around the block a few times, you can probably remember how stunning it was when clownfish and dottybacks were beginning to be captive bred. I bet any number of collectors, importers and retailers were pooping their pants wondering what the profit loss was going to be. Now, at least on the retail side, clownfish are common, cheaper, and entice many new people into the hobby. That leads to a bigger profit margin in the end.

Anyway, Vargklo, I think long term everyone would benefit from more fragging and swapping. I have set up half a dozen reef tanks among friends and family using corals exclusively provided from propagating my own. And guess what? They still had to go to the lfs to get fish, salt, hardware, supplies, etc... these are people that would never had laid out the money that most lfs's charge for corals, and thus would never have gotten into the hobby. Dollars that the lfs never would have seen, were it not for home propagation.

Of course you could just flush all of your frags down the toilet and not worry about effecting someones profit margin. J/K!!!!!