Electrical Help - Breaker Panel

[Mike31154]

Thank you for your insights Mike - I will look into that book. I also skimmed over the costs of an inspection and it was around $250 I think for having an inspector come to a home.

The GFI outlets I have are Pass & Seymound / Legrand.

The compression plate fitting you mention is on both hot/neutral. The ground is the only one with a screw terminal. Do they sell GFI outlets that have the ground as a compression plate fitting too?

Not sure to be honest. Most of the GFIs I've installed at my place are Leviton. I don't have one handy to confirm, but from the diagram on the instruction sheet, it looks like they have the green screw for ground like yours does. However, the diagram also shows a 'backwire' grounding hole for 'bare copper or green wire'. Most newer receptacles these days all have these 'backwire' holes to push the wire into, but inspectors don't like you to use them, why I have no idea, something about not being a solid enough connection perhaps. If that's the case, why is anyone allowed to sell the damned things that way? How do they get CSA approval? Your guess is as good as mine.

With respect to using a black wire for the ground, to the best of my knowledge in British Columbia, it is acceptable to "paint" the wire insulation green somewhere close to the connection in order to denote its function. Tape or any other marking method is not acceptable I think because it comes off too easy. IMO, anyone who has half a clue will realize that a wire connected to a green grounding screw is most likely the ground wire, regardless of colour. Chances are, at the other end it's also quite obvious. But an inspector will crucify you for not identifying it properly and if he finds something like that, he will get much more nosy on your other work, to the point where you may have to tear everything apart again. I'd guess the codes between provinces only vary slightly, they're all based on the NEC, National Electric Code & I can't see why there would be major difference between provinces, but that's just a guess, every level of government below the Feds likes to have their little kingdom.

 

[chatyak]

Updates and "finished". Just need to connect to breaker and then into breaker panel. All connections were on the LINE of each outlet. The outlet itself was not grounded to the PVC box, because of plastic obviously. Everything is pigtailed in the box.


Here is the updated outlet (all the same);

The junction box:

How it looks:

Looks okay?

 

[Paul B]

The only concerns I have are you cut some strands off of the white stranded wire so you could push it into that silly hole in the back of the receptacle. If you are concerned about code, you are not allowed to do that. That wire now is not rated for the same rating it was before you trimmed it. Also you are not allowed to use those push holes in the back of a receptacle with stranded wire. (unless it says so on the receptacle) Here in NY we were not allowed to use those quick connect holes for anything because there is a thin piece of copper in there that grabs the wire and it is a lousy connection. It is legal to use it, but we in the union could not use them. I have also used them but I am pretty sure stranded wire in there is a no no as it is really a bad connection like that. Maybe Canada doesn't care, I don't know. We also don't tape over wire nuts. If you make the splice correctly all the exposed copper will be inside the nut and there is no need for tape.
The thing is safe but you seem concerned with doing it perfectly.
All of those things you did, I have done myself thousands of times so I am not trying to be picky, but you asked.

 

[iced98lx]

As Paul accurately noted, used the screw terminals for stranded wire on your outlet.

 

[chatyak]

Oh.... I see.... :-/

Hmm... well the original reason I used stranded in the back was because of the concern given to me for using stranded around the screw.

The back connection isn't just a push-in, but the type that clamps down with the screw as well - if that matters.

The strand wasn't purposely cut off - I see now it must have gotten snipped via a trim.

I'll redo it I guess with solid wire.

 

[Paul B]

The back connection isn't just a push-in, but the type that clamps down with the screw as well - if that matters.

Yes that matters, you can use stranded wire under the clamp. I couldn't see it in the photo.

The strand wasn't purposely cut off - I see now it must have gotten snipped via a trim.

It isn't a big deal, but it is a violation to remove strands. Of course if it was an accident.
Well then, It still is a violation.

 

[fishgate]

FYI: In most areas the connections to the main breaker box neutral and ground are the same thing.

 

[chatyak]

Will post a couple new pictures soon. I took everything out and spent a couple hours redoing it all.

Only trouble I have now is the pigtail portion. Having a really hard time getting the wires to hold in the marette. One of the neutrals wiggled loose when I pulled it gently - so I took them all out and started over - twisting the marette so tight that the skin came off my thumb now.... seems to be snug now.

In theory - what would happen if a neutral came loose from the marette - leaving only a hot and ground connected (for the outlet in question). Would the GFI shut off?

 

[fishgate]

Will post a couple new pictures soon. I took everything out and spent a couple hours redoing it all.

Only trouble I have now is the pigtail portion. Having a really hard time getting the wires to hold in the marette. One of the neutrals wiggled loose when I pulled it gently - so I took them all out and started over - twisting the marette so tight that the skin came off my thumb now.... seems to be snug now.

In theory - what would happen if a neutral came loose from the marette - leaving only a hot and ground connected (for the outlet in question). Would the GFI shut off?

I don't think the GFI would trip but the outlet would not work. Testing positive (black) to ground would show 120 volts though. I didn't read the whole thread but why didn't you use the side screws instead of the backstabs? Also you could use a piece of romex and make pigtails to your backstabs or the screws with solid core wire and then twist it together with your stranded wire using a wire nut. Those outlets are not designed to use stranded wire.

 

[sfsuphysics]

FYI: In most areas the connections to the main breaker box neutral and ground are the same thing.

They are the same connection, but a neutral line carries current where as a ground should not (although it can)

 

[bdr]

if the neutral comes out the outlet wont work. there will be no where for the electricity to flow. 250 bucks for an inspection is cheap for peace of mind when you have a fire to know your insurance is going to pay.

 

[chatyak]

if the neutral comes out the outlet wont work. there will be no where for the electricity to flow. 250 bucks for an inspection is cheap for peace of mind when you have a fire to know your insurance is going to pay.

Thank you BDR.

And what of the hot/live wire - what if that came loose but the neutral and ground were still in-tact?

 

[Paul B]

Then nothing would happen, the outlet would just be dead.

 

[chatyak]

Well, I redid it all and wired it up today.... only two issues.

1) I noticed I left way too much slack on the romex before connecting. I will fix this next week:

Other issue was that when the power came back on - my GFO somehow got blasted in the display and now half my sand is black :mad2:



Everything tested fine. The electrical tape is because the top screw for the cover plate broke off inside the PVC portion.... so I used the tape to cover any gaps (only 1 screw holding it).

and the solid wires....

 

[Paul B]

Looks OK from here. I can't see the main ground in that panel but I assume it is out of the picture someplace.
Leaving to much Romex is fine as long as you don't mind looking at it.

 

[woodnaquanut]

For back of outlet (last pic)...

I'd trim a bit off the hot and neutral so there is no exposed copper. If, when you close it up, the ground touched either there'd be problems.

 

[chatyak]

Looks OK from here. I can't see the main ground in that panel but I assume it is out of the picture someplace.
Leaving to much Romex is fine as long as you don't mind looking at it.

HI Paul,

Do you mean the main ground of the breaker panel - or for the romex I put in?

 

[chatyak]

For back of outlet (last pic)...

I'd trim a bit off the hot and neutral so there is no exposed copper. If, when you close it up, the ground touched either there'd be problems.

What would happen in this case?

 

[Mike31154]

What would happen in this case?

If it touched the neutral nothing noticeable would happen until there was an actual ground fault, if it touched the hot, there would be sparks & the breaker and/or GFCI would trip. There is a strip guage on the back of the GFCI receptacle that shows you how much insulation to strip off the wire. Remove the wire from the terminal & lay it on to the strip guage & you'll see if there's excess or not enough. Either way it's not a huge deal and if the concern is the ground wire touching, well you still have the exposed screw terminals! Some folks actually tape over those to further minimize the possiblility of shorts, but if you take care when you shove the receptacle into the box, you should be fine. Keep an eye on what the ground wire does when you start pushing the whole works back in. Of course if the bare ground wire is excessively long, that makes life a bit more difficult. This is kind of where the box fill rule comes into play. The more wire you try to stuff into the box, the more likely something can go south when you put it all together.

 

[Paul B]

Do you mean the main ground of the breaker panel - or for the romex I put in?

The main panel ground which should be a #6 solid wire coming off the ground bar in the panel and going to either your water main or a ground stake outside. It is probably in there, I just can't see it. All panels have to have it. Actually I also don't see it in the full pictures of your panel. That would be a big violation so just be sure it is in there someplace. It should be connected to the ground bar in the panel, but it may be on a seperate terminal someplace in the panel.