elegance came off shell

I would also have to agree that it can still grow a skeletal structure. Some stated that the skeletal structure would not but how do they think the polyps each started out? Take care of it and good luck!

They start out as larvae. The larvae settle and attach to a suitable substrate, go through metamorphoses, and begin laying down calcium carbonate. A bailed out elegance coral is a mature polyp. It does not attach to a substrate, it does not go through metamorphoses, or begin laying down calcium carbonate.
 
(Aquarium corals by eric bourneman) is one of the books that I was talking about in my post earlier in this thread.I am not gonna go re read this info but I do not think that ANYONE in this book has downplayed polyp bailout or said it was "NO big deal"I find that one of the reasons that we are all on these boards is to try and pass on info to fellow aquarist. That is what we were all doing on this thread.Sorry if I take the word of a guy that writes books, works at a university and makes his entire living off of corals.I guess I am just starstruck!!!
 
I dont know anyone who has done as much specific research into this particular coral as elegance coral has recently. No, he has not written any books about it, but has extensive hands on experience.

There are years and years of posts on many message boards speaking of polyp bailout in various lps, not just this particular coral. In all those years of going through posts, I have yet to see any pictorial documentation of a bailed out adult polyp beginning to grow a new skeletal base. It just doesn't happen.

As far as the torch mentioned above, I would venture to say it was a baby that had begun to develop as a new branch, complete with a tiny skeletal base, and broke off the main coral. It then settled and continued its development. I have had that happen several times with branching hammer coral. I glue the tiny piece to a rock and it does continue to develop, because it began as skeletal base and polyp, not a bailed out mature polyp. Same with plate corals. They 'drop' babies as part of their normal lives. Those small pieces already have a small skeletal base included and continue to grow. This is completely different from an adult polyp bailing out of its skeletal base.
 
(Aquarium corals by eric bourneman) is one of the books that I was talking about in my post earlier in this thread.I am not gonna go re read this info but I do not think that ANYONE in this book has downplayed polyp bailout or said it was "NO big deal"I find that one of the reasons that we are all on these boards is to try and pass on info to fellow aquarist. That is what we were all doing on this thread.Sorry if I take the word of a guy that writes books, works at a university and makes his entire living off of corals.I guess I am just starstruck!!!


I have no desire to argue about this. My whole problem with authors suggesting that this is a natural form of reproduction, or an escape tactic, is that it downplays the urgency to understand and prevent this condition. If we believe that a bailed out elegance will simply move to a new location and begin life anew, why would we concern ourselves with understanding what causes this condition and how to prevent it? I believe that it is important for people to understand that this is a death sentence for these corals, and that understanding its causes, and taking steps to prevent them, is the only chance these corals have.
 
Sorry I missed this post a month ago.:hmm5:

Very good point. Unfortunately, It's kinda hard to prove that this process doesn't take place. It's kinda like trying to prove that we're not being visited by ET, or that Bigfoot and Nessie don't exist. What we have is countless cases of polyp bail out in these corals, and no documented cases of them building a new skeleton and living happily ever after. I find it irresponsible, to say the least, for authors to downplay the significance of this problem by saying, "it's no big deal. The coral will simply grow a new skeleton". Especially when we have absolutely no evidence to support such a claim.

Better late than never :)

Ill side with your opinion on this since that's basically what i was getting at. I have yet to here of a magical skeleton re-appearing.
 
Bdimas- rather than ask salt brand and stocking levels you should be asking about calcium, alkalinity and magnesium levels.

elegance coral- thanks for the info.
 
Thanks Gary. So basically this happens because Ca, Alk, and Mag are too low?

Just asking because i have never heard or experienced this.
 
Borneman covers a couple of different reproductive modes of corals, including various forms of asexual reproduction such as budding and fission. In each one, tissue separates from the parent colony and then begins to calcify and form a new skeleton. These forms of reproduction are thought to be responses to stressful conditions. Coral tissue may bud and separate, the coral may intentionally decalify part of its skeleton to release some of its tissue, or eject a living polyp from its skeleton. Regarding polyp bailout, note, p. 81, "There are also reports of Catalaphyllia, Trachyphyllia, and a few other genera of large-polyped stony corals releasing living tissue from their skeletons in captivity to drift and then begin the calcification of a new skeleton. Again, these incidents usually follow a period of stress. It is not known if this observed aquarium behavior is analogous to the true polyp bail-outs reported in the scientific literature."

In the section on Coral Health, Borneman again talks about decalcification and polyp bail out. In decalcification in captivity, the author states that the most common cause is the lack (in the water) of "bioavailable calcium, carbon sources, or other elements required for skeletogenesis." No mention is made of the liklihood of loose polyps to survive; only that correcting the environmental problems will usually stop the decalcification process. Polyp bailout occurs usually in response to disease or stress, and correction of the cause is necessary to halt the progression of the bailout. Settlement of the loose polyps is more likely to occur in a stable aquarium without a lot of circulation.


***My question: is there a way to tell whether the coral in question has undergone decalcification vs. polyp bailout?
 
***My question: is there a way to tell whether the coral in question has undergone decalcification vs. polyp bailout?
perhaps check calcium alkalinity and magnesium levels :)

I don't think I've ever heard of a coral's skeleton called a "shell" until this thread. I guess you learn something new every day.
 
Gary et al.,

With the assumption that low calcium would be decalcification and magnesium would... also be decalicification or polyp bailout?

Maybe I shouldn't be so hung up on what happened and just figure out what the stress was and fix it, but I am curious to know the difference between the two.
 
I bought a four year old elegance from a local reefer. It was over crowding his tank. His skin was reseated off the edges off the shell but you could tell it had been that way for quit some time.
this was due to decalcification. The situation was corrected and the coral continued to to lay down new skeleton.
Decalcification and polyp bailout are two different things. Polyp bailout is a response. Decalcification is a condition.
In what might be a separate (or ongoing) stessful condition (we don't know for sure) this polyp bailed out due to certain stress factors.
 
Some of my loose blasto polyps are still loose and alive, with no obvious change in appearance. I guess only additional time will tell.
 
I started this post along time ago. To my surprise it pops up once in a while. To up date what I have found out about my tank is, I found out my Salifert KH test kit read wrong. When it read I was at 9dkh I was actually at 5dkh. Number two, I tested my tank with a amp meter and found I had a maxii jet pump running my phosband, to be putting out 2 amps into the water. Since I have corrected these problems, I have not had any more issues with lps jumping.
 
i had a large frogspawn bail out a while ago. it has been unattached for over a year now and has no skeletal growth. the old colonie now has a few new heads growing nicely.

I read somewhere there is some slime or something on the polyp when it bails out adn if it happens to hit a favoriable rock it will attach and grow more skeleton but if that does nto happen quickly this "slime" will dissapate and it will never grow. it is rather vauge but,,,,, as i said over a year and no skelton growth for me, the head is a little larger then a golf ball
 
I started this post along time ago. To my surprise it pops up once in a while. To up date what I have found out about my tank is, I found out my Salifert KH test kit read wrong. When it read I was at 9dkh I was actually at 5dkh. Number two, I tested my tank with a amp meter and found I had a maxii jet pump running my phosband, to be putting out 2 amps into the water. Since I have corrected these problems, I have not had any more issues with lps jumping.

Intersting and glad you found some stressors, but is polyp alive?
 
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