Endless cycle?

[obarrera]

My tank has been cycling for over 4 months, it’s a 20gallon tank, with around 20lbs of rock(Marco rock), I didn’t use any live sand or live rock, but I’ve had several tanks before and never had this problem, it’s making feel like a noob, I haven’t done a single water change, just top off with freshwater. I’m using the API ammonia test kit that is for freshwater but as far as I know the 2 ammonia bottles work for both fresh and salt?

Should I do a big water change? From my experience a cycle shouldn’t last this long even with no water changes. Ever since I started testing my water, the test water turns very green, and when I test my freshwater tank, it’s yellow, no ammonia at all.

 

[reefing102]

Yes the test is designed for both fresh and saltwater, but I think they may have different color cards. Did you start with dry rock and sand? Have you added any bottled bacteria?

 

[kharmaguru]

My tank has been cycling for over 4 months, it’s a 20gallon tank, with around 20lbs of rock(Marco rock), I didn’t use any live sand or live rock, but I’ve had several tanks before and never had this problem, it’s making feel like a noob, I haven’t done a single water change, just top off with freshwater. I’m using the API ammonia test kit that is for freshwater but as far as I know the 2 ammonia bottles work for both fresh and salt?

Should I do a big water change? From my experience a cycle shouldn’t last this long even with no water changes. Ever since I started testing my water, the test water turns very green, and when I test my freshwater tank, it’s yellow, no ammonia at all.

I'm thinking test kit error. What ammonia level are you getting? Have you tested nitrite or nitrate?

 

[obarrera]

It only came with one card I think, and it says freshwater on it, I don’t see anything about working with saltwater, but I was about to buy the saltwater version and noticed the ammonia API brand test says it’s both for fresh and salt. But if I go by this card, my ammonia usually reads 4.0ppm sometimes even 8.0ppm. I haven’t tested nitrite or nitrate, I’m heading for work now but will test those as soon as I get a chance tonight. Yes started with dry sand and rock. For bacteria I only added a bit of microbacter7

 

[griss]

Yep, from what I've read, it looks like API supplies a different color card for saltwater. ETA: Found a comparison.

 

[wvned]

Are you dechlorinating the freshwater. Some dechlorinators will make that type of ammonia test read false positive.

The Effects Of Dechlorinator On Ammonia Readings
One little "gotcha" lurking in the wings which is frequently missed by new ponders is the effect of certain declorinators on ammonia readings. An ammonia test conducted when declor is present will show incorrect readings. Water with no ammonia whatever may test positive for ammonia. Conversely, water with high ammonia levels can read as ammonia-free. My advice is to use a declorinator which is compatible with your ammonia test. Which are compatible? The only two I've had any luck with are AmQuel (which, in my humble opinion is the only first-rate declorinator on the market) and a salicylate-type ammonia test kit (Tetra Pond). There will still be a bit of interference, but its negligible.

This is not an issue if you use RODI water you made yourself.
Many people buy water, I used to. You really don't know what they are doing in the back room though.

 

[reefing102]

My guess is you’re actually cycled and it’s a test kit error. If you are able to test nitrate that should show whether or not your nitrogen cycle is processing.

 

[obarrera]

I tested nitrate and this is what shows.
Would this mean my tank is cycled or not? I also bought the seachem ammonia alert, it will arrive tomorrow, not sure if it’s any good. I’ll start buying that amquel plus conditioner, been using the seachem one.

 

[wvned]

Have you added anything to feed the tank that would be turned into nitrate. A small piece of shrimp. A tiny bit of fish food. Some people dose ammonia these days.
One nitrate test doesn't tell you much. It is possible there are some nitrates in you source water. It is watching the value rise over multiple tests that tells you the ammonia and proteins from the food are being processed into nitrates.
I agree that the tank is probably cycled by now. That doesn't mean your bacteria population is very robust though because nothing has been given to them to eat. Once you do it will grow quickly.

 

[obarrera]

I only added fish food at the start of the tank cycle. I’ll add a bit more. And hopefully that seachem ammonia alert works well, it will arrive today.

Thanks

 

[kharmaguru]

I tested nitrate and this is what shows.
Would this mean my tank is cycled or not? I also bought the seachem ammonia alert, it will arrive tomorrow, not sure if it’s any good. I’ll start buying that amquel plus conditioner, been using the seachem one.

That looks like you don't have any nitrate? Something is not making sense.

If you had 8ppm ammonia that would translate into 21.6ppm nitrite and then 28.8ppm nitrate in a perfect cycle. While 8ppm ammonia is way too high a starting point, some say a stalled cycle is impossible so I'm a bit baffled.

Can you tell us what exactly you did 4 months ago, what water you used and continue to use for top up?

 

[griss]

Yeah, this one is a bit strange. More detail will definitely help to troubleshoot.

 

[obarrera]

I’ll test nitrite when I get home, does anyone know if the seachem ammonia alert is any good? I will be putting that in the tank as well. I use tap water and reef crystals sea salt, same tap water for top off. I use the same water for my freshwater tank too, no ammonia shows in that one.

 

[reefing102]

My guess if your using dechlorninator in the tap water it’s a false positive. I’d probably add a starter fish like a black Molly (conditioned to saltwater) or maybe a cheaper fish that’s on the fish list

 

[BeanAnimal]

The "cycle" is endless... nitrifying bacteria populations expand and contract based on the available food for them. There is almost no way that your tank has not stabilized after 4 weeks. I would simply ad a fish (not 10) and go from there. Measuring ammonia is somewhat pointless after the first 10-12 days (and even then pointless because you can't really stop the initial population anyway). Throughout the life of your tank, just do things slowly - if you had 20 fish and their food to a 10 year old tank with 2 fish in it, you are likely to have an ammonia spike... slow and steady wins the race.

 

[obarrera]

Reefing102, do you think the dechlorinator can cause it to read a false positive in saltwater and not in freshwater cause I use same water, same dechlorinator in my fresh and saltwater tanks and my freshwater keeps reading 0 ammonia.

I’ll go to my lfs on Friday and buy a fish. It’s what I would always do with my tanks, was just trying to do it without hurting anything but oh well I’ll just buy a fish soon, and the seachem alert isn’t reading any ammonia, it’s been there for over an hour.

 

[reefing102]

Reefing102, do you think the dechlorinator can cause it to read a false positive in saltwater and not in freshwater cause I use same water, same dechlorinator in my fresh and saltwater tanks and my freshwater keeps reading 0 ammonia.

I’ll go to my lfs on Friday and buy a fish. It’s what I would always do with my tanks, was just trying to do it without hurting anything but oh well I’ll just buy a fish soon, and the seachem alert isn’t reading any ammonia, it’s been there for over an hour.

@wvned may have more information on that as I’m not 100% on the test relationship between dechlorinator and fresh vs saltwater testing

That said, while I’ve never ran the seachem badges, I’ve seen several people use them and haven’t had any bad readings as far as I know. As mentioned, just start slow with adding the fish to allow the bacterial population to increase and not overload the system

 

[wvned]

I only know what I have read. And 100s of posts about API ammonia tests that read some weird color not on the card. If you add Prime to a tank it will be a long while before An API ammonia test will become yellow. It goes to an off green color.
About the only time I run ammonia tests is after adding a live rock shipment to a system. It's how I judge how bad the death from shipping was.

 

[griss]

Yep, I hate the color comparison test kits. I prefer titration kits or Hanna checkers. I use Salifert for Alk, Ca, and Mg and a Hanna for PO4. I also use Salifert for Nitrate, unfortunately that is a color comparison test kit. I usually ask Mrs. griss to compare the colors with me to try to get the best estimate on what my Nitrate levels are

 

[wvned]

LED bulbs kind of did in color cards for me. Everything is a different color depending where I stand in the house.
I have to take tests outside in sunlight to read them.