Experience With Purple Queen Anthias - Must feed often

Thanks Shred5, it was a bit of a pain trying to get this system to work properly, but, it seems to have done the job. I have a second gen version of this system in a second mandarin tank I have running now (the second gen one is designed to back siphon just a little bit after feeding so that there is tank/water bottle water exchange throughout the day). Not going to post anything on this one yet though, as that one's pretty complicated and I'm still tuning it (as of last night it's been running well, but I've flooded the mandarin tank with brine shrimp about 4 times already, which I've learnt drops the PH a little but the mandarin didn't seem to mind one bit with the extra brine).

Awesome to hear Ca1ore, I'm glad that you had the Ova and were able to convert them. They really are cool fish to have.

Caribfan, I took a video of it last night, but can't post it because of the space limitation requirements of the site. Will have to post it on a site at some time and post the link.
 
Hey Guys,

Ok, so, I dearly apologize for anyone who tried this system and had their brine shrimp keep dying on them after a day or so. I realize I had made a couple of changes to this system because I realized a couple of days after I set up the system that baby brine shrimp need constant flow and aeration, without either, they would inevitably die (at least for me).

I'm going to do a full write up on the system in an effort to apologize to anyone who tried this and it failed them. So, here we go. Word of caution, do this at your own risk, and, when you run this system for the first time, make sure it is on a day when you can be next to the tank all day, to make sure the system runs properly and does not flood your floor due to back siphoning.

Things you'll need:
- A water bottle which can maintain an air tight seal and has a plastic cap which is at least 1.5" in diameter (what I use now is a 1 gallon hawaiian punch plastic bottle).
- 2 lengths of 3/16" rigid airline tubing which are as tall as the bottle you will be using.
- A length of silicone tubing which is 5 times the height of your tank (i.e., if you have a 2 foot tall tank on a 3 foot stand, then, it's 5x5=25ft). (A note on this, I recommend using silicone airline tubing and not PVC, as I've noticed the silicone makes a better air tight seal when inserted into the holes in the cap you will be drilling).
- One 10-20 gallon tank air pump (you can use larger than this)
- One 200+ gallon air pump (I use the petco 26-212 gallon, four outlet air pump) with all of the outlets feeding into one outlet (you can use airline tubing and t-adapters to do this).
- One power outlet timer (I use a basic digital one from home depot)
- One flat hose clamp adapter (I made my own, but you can use something like a SEOH Hoffman Tubing Clamp).
- Drill with a bit which is sized so it can slide into silicone tubing with ease (with little restriction when sliding it in/out) as well as a 2mm bit (doesn't have to be 2mm, but close to it).
- Velcro with adhesive backing
- One airline tubing elbow connection
- 2 Airflow adjusters (I use two basic ones from Petco).
- 2 airline tubing suction cups
- Heater (optional)
- Container which the water bottle you are using can fit into (optional)
- Hatched brine shrimp in enough water to fill the water container ¾ of the way.

Ok, so, first thing to do is, using your drill and bit, drill 4 holes into the cap of the water bottle, spacing them out evenly but making sure not to place any of the drill holes through the section of the cap which seals the bottle (if you look inside the cap, there will be a small ring in the cap, do not drill through that section).

Cut your airline tubing into the following lengths: 1 length is twice the height of your tank + 3 ft (we will call this Line A), another which is the height of your tank + 2 ft (we will call this Line B), another which is about 2 ft (we will call this Line C), and another which is ½ ft (we will call this Line D).

Cut off ½ of a ft from line A and cut Line C in half. Place one of the air flow controllers onto Line A so that and place the cut section of 1/2 ft tubing back onto the other side of the flow controller on Line A. Do the same thing for Line C so that the flow controller is in the middle of the two lengths of tubing on Line C.

Take your 2 lengths of rigid airline tubing and cut them to the following lengths: one which is 3 inches shorter than the height of the bottle (we will call this Tube A), and another two which are half the height of the bottle each (we will call this Tubes B and C).

Drill a 2mm (approximately) hole into Tube C at the middle of the tube (only drill through one wall, not both sides). Note, you can drill a bigger hole, but keep in mind the bigger the hole, the more water will dribble out of the tube at this location when you run the system.

Insert your 4 cut pieces of tubing in through the 4 holes of the cap, setting up the tubing so that the opening of each tube should sit 1 inch from the cap.
Put Tube A into Line A, then adjust the tubing as needed so that the opening of the rigid tube sits 2 inches from the bottom of the bottle when the cap of the bottle is screwed on tightly. Attach the other end of the tubing to the 10-20 gallon pump.

Put Tube B into Line B, then adjust the tubing as needed so that the opening of the rigid tube sits at half the height of the bottle when the cap is screwed on tightly. Attach Tube C to the open end of the tubing, then, at the open end of Tube C, attach your elbow connection (note, you may need a small section of leftover silicone tubing to connect these).

Connect Line C to the 212 gallon pump. Don't attach anything to Line D yet (having nothing connected to Line D will prevent you from flooding your floor during the next step).

Now, place the brine shrimp with water into the water jug. Close the cap onto the bottle (obviously with all tubes under the cap in the bottle) and make sure the cap is on tight. Plug the 10 gallon air pump in and adjust the flow controller on Line A until the water is has pretty turbulent at the water line but flow is slow enough at the bottom to just barely lift anything off the bottom (I actually turn it down a little less than this, but it results in me emptying the bottle and cleaning it once a week). Be cautious because I've seen that if you leave BBS in a very aggressive flow for more than 2 days all you end up with is orange water and no BBS.

Place a strip of the adhesive backed Velcro onto the middle of Line A. Place the other half of the Velcro strip onto the highest part of the tank where you won't see it (I put mine on a corner of the top bracing). Attach the Velcro from the tube to the Velcro of the tank. By doing this step, it will aid in the prevention of back siphoning (secondary backup).

Attach Tube C to the open end of Line B. Using a small piece of additional silicone tubing, put the elbow adapter onto the front end of Tube C.

Run Line B up the back of the tank so you can't see it and set up the line so that Tube C runs along the inside of the Tank above the water line with the elbow pointing down toward the tank. Adjust Tube C as needed so that the 2mm hole is also pointing down toward the tank. Adjust Tube C so that the 2mm hole also points down toward the tank. Use your suction cups to keep Tube C above the waterline inside the tank (Note, it is extremely important to always keep Tube C above the waterline, if it ever falls into the waterline unattended, it will back siphon and cause a slow flood. I have additional bracketing along the side of my tank as a redundant safety precaution to make sure that Tube C does not fall into the waterline by accident).

Now, place the tubing clamp onto Line D on the side which sits outside of the bottle. Slowly adjust the clamp to clamp down on the tubing, waiting about 30 seconds between each adjustment and paying very close attention to Line A where it exits the bottle. You want to adjust the clamp so that it is just slightly more open from where you see water begin to run out of the bottle up Line A. If you see water running up Line A, you are clamping down too much.

Now, attach Line C to the 212 gallon pump. Adjust the air flow valve on Line C to the fully closed position. Plug in the pump and slowly open the flow controller, waiting 30 second between each adjustment. Adjust the flow controller so that water from the bottle will run up Line B and into the tank.

Slow or speed up the flow as needed so you have a steady stream of brine shrimp out of the elbow, but not so much that you're flooding your tank with brine shrimp (adjust as needed to meet your feeding need). Please note, the 212 pump is pressurizing the system, so it is normal to see the air bubbles from inside the water bottle to slow down, but, the bubbles should never completely stop. If the bubbles slow down to about 2 bubbles a second or more after 2 minutes when the 212 pump is running, you are fine. It is normal to have water flowing out of the 2mm hole in Tube C, this will be a necessary evil to make sure that the system doesn't back siphon.

Unplug the 212 pump and make sure that the system stops feeding, the water in Line B will flow back into the bottle. Line B should be empty of water at this point and only contain air.

Plug your 212 pump and plug it into your electric socket timer. Set the timer as needed for your feeding requirements.

If you would like as added option, place the heater into the optional containers for the bottle, place the water bottle into the container, fill the container half way with water, and turn on the heater so that the brine shrimp bottle is in a warm water bath (helps remove temperature shock of the brine shrimp if in a cold room. The added benefit of the water bath is that if the system does happen to back siphon, it will pour into the water bath, giving you a little extra time to react.

Now is the tedious part. I strongly recommend you monitor the system for a minimum of 6-8 hours, making sure that the system is not doing any of the following:
"¢ The system is not back siphoning through line B: If this happens, then make sure that Tube C is not sitting under the water line. If it is above the water line, you may need to make the 2mm hole slightly bigger.
"¢ The system still feeds when the 212 pump is off, then you need to do one of two things: open the tube clamp on Line D or turn back the flow on the 10-20 gallon pump until the system just stops feeding.
"¢ When the 212 pump is running, it does not feed: turn up the flow on the 212 pump or turn up the flow on the 10-20 gal pump, or turn down the tube clamp so a little more pressure can build up in the system.

Sorry if it seems confusing above, just didn't have the time to take pictures of the system. Hopefully this might be able to help some of you guys out.
 
The argument, as I see it, for generally leaving these fish in the wild is that only about 3 people in the universe are going to set up a situation where they can get enough food. They shouldn't just be swimming around at the LFS for sale.

Hats off to anyone willing to do his due diligence in feeding these lovely little fish or come up with new, clever systems for doing so. I just don't think anyone should be able to obtain them without special ordering them.
 
The argument, as I see it, for generally leaving these fish in the wild is that only about 3 people in the universe are going to set up a situation where they can get enough food. They shouldn't just be swimming around at the LFS for sale.

Hats off to anyone willing to do his due diligence in feeding these lovely little fish or come up with new, clever systems for doing so. I just don't think anyone should be able to obtain them without special ordering them.

I tend to agree. One of the LFS in my area gets them in from time to time, and I just shake my head when I see them, knowing they won't survive long term.
 
Experience With Purple Queen Anthias - Must feed often

I've had good luck feeding the adults live brine. Once they are eating the live brine, I've weened them to frozen brine and eventually to Hikari mysis. I started out with 3 females. One female turned male. Over time both females jumped, the lone male I had for almost a year before losing it along with my other fish to Brook or some other disease.

Right now I'm nursing two tiny juveniles. They are eating live baby brine shrimp and tigger pods. A friend thinks the juveniles I have are actually Pascalus vs Tukas. They lack the orange stripe.
 
The argument, as I see it, for generally leaving these fish in the wild is that only about 3 people in the universe are going to set up a situation where they can get enough food. They shouldn't just be swimming around at the LFS for sale.

Hats off to anyone willing to do his due diligence in feeding these lovely little fish or come up with new, clever systems for doing so. I just don't think anyone should be able to obtain them without special ordering them.

FWIW, I completely agree. Always a dilemma for me whether to buy difficult fish or not. On one hand I'm likely to give the fish a better chance for survival; on the other hand I'm fueling demand and thus continued supply.
 
Here's a shot of the five a month in. Green tinge to the tank is nitrofuracin green powder. One of the evansi has been showing signs of either a bacterial or fungal problem. All tuka's are eating, though not all the same thing. Just when I think I have them all on bigger foods, one or two will decide they don't like it after all. Been able to keep weight on, feeding ova, brine, Mysis and LRS; though they are going to end up in my leopard-anthias 90 rather than the aggressive 265.

 
FWIW, I completely agree. Always a dilemma for me whether to buy difficult fish or not. On one hand I'm likely to give the fish a better chance for survival; on the other hand I'm fueling demand and thus continued supply.

I was there in the 90s and it was one of the driving forces that pushed me to learn and better understand Refugium's. After having a chance to see the one at Monaco and with the research of what Refugium material I could find (1989) along with hard head basic learning:) I designed, patented, and brought to or hobby at MACNA X, three & four chambered Refugium's along with the first BackPack skimmer first Refugium's.
The hope was helping hobbiest better understand another part of our hobby regarding quality water control with supplemental natural food source. Envisioning less marine life death as the main winner and hobbiest seeing the full cycle allowing better understanding/knowledge of our hobby.
This is a great thread with black and white information given with how to keep these....hard to keep beautiful fish. My build is not wet yet so I have none of these fish:) Along with the information and pictures this is a learning thread so fish may/will die but with the start you guy's have here once finished maybe takes these guy's off the hard to keep list?
Keep up the good work on this one:)
 
It's a crappy iPhone video, and the fish are scared of the lights ......



..... I think y'all get the idea though. Bottom line with these fish is a couple of them will take larger Mysis, most the smaller mysis and most the smaller particles in the LRS reef frenzy foods.
 
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One evansi ended up dying from what appears to have been a physical injury that got infected. Five tukas are still doing fine. they aren't eating quite as well as I'd have liked by now, but a pending vacation means they're going to go into the FOWLR (non-aggressive) either this weekend, or next.
 
It appears I'm just talking to myself in this thread :lol:, but I thought I'd provide a final update for those that may be interested ....

Of the five PQ, I have been able to successful get three into my display. One ended up dying in QT from the same kind of 'hematoma' that felled the evansi, and a second one had a coronary when I moved it into the display. My display is a non-aggressive FOWLR that I'm able to feed adequately. None of these anthias would be able to compete in my reef tank though - just too many piggies. Interestingly, of the three, they all eat different things. The smallest one will eat mini Mysis, the second will eat brine and the third will eat cyclopeeze. Figures!
 
Hey Guys,

Simon, yeah, it seems like these fish are some of the most picky eaters. I'm lucky in that of the two I have had, one of them will eat blood worms, gut loaded frozen brine, and spirulina brine, the other will eat hikari mysis, gut loaded brine, and spirulina brine only. Either way that suits me fine because those are staples in the mix I feed my tank.

Both my anthias are doing well, pretty much two of the most aggresive eaters in the tank now because they are very fast fish, they can easily out pace my two blue reef chromis when motivated, and, they recognize when I'm about to feed them because they will always come out front and center whenever I'm getting ready to feed them. Aside from my mandarin and scooter blennys, they are my favorite fish, a lot of personality and definitely recognize their owners once they realize you are their food source. Actually just picked up a third female tonight, found one at a new LFS i had stopped by, they had just gotten it in today and it had some nipped fins, but looked to be in pretty good shape overall. Will see how the 3 fair together.
 
Just want to throw this out there in case anyone is searching for "feeding purple queens".
I had one for about 1.5 months in my reef and used marine cuisine (frozen) to feed it regularly. I fed about about 3 times a day.
I had to capture it and sell it because the algae level in my tank was going nuts. To much phosphates from the food probably.
 
Just want to throw this out there in case anyone is searching for "feeding purple queens".
I had one for about 1.5 months in my reef and used marine cuisine (frozen) to feed it regularly. I fed about about 3 times a day.
I had to capture it and sell it because the algae level in my tank was going nuts. To much phosphates from the food probably.

Hey Ron. Actually I had the same problem with any of the San Francisco Bay frozen foods. What I learnt I had to do was thaw out all of the frozen foods I would need for the week, rinse them in salt water, then drain it an re-freeze it. After I did this, my nitrates and phosphates dropped significantly after a couple of weeks.

I've moved on to the Hikari products, and I've noticed that with the Hikari frozen foods, I haven't needed to rinse it. I just cut off a quarter from 3 different cubes, mix them in salt water, and feed it to my tank. Also, I use disposable droppers to feed the food, and, I will always dose the food fast enough that all the fish can eat, but slow enough that none of the food drops to the sand bed. Also, you have to look at when the fish begin slowing down to catch the food, when they are no longer chasing the food down like ravenous dogs, they are getting full, at which point I stop feeding. This seemed to play the biggest impact on dropping the nitrates and phosphates though.
 
Just want to throw this out there in case anyone is searching for "feeding purple queens".
I had one for about 1.5 months in my reef and used marine cuisine (frozen) to feed it regularly. I fed about about 3 times a day.
I had to capture it and sell it because the algae level in my tank was going nuts. To much phosphates from the food probably.

Yeah, I hear you!. My purple queens are in a 90 gallon along with some NPS corals, so the tank gets fed a LOT. I do run the lights fairly low, so that helps to discourage algae, but I also run water changes from my large system though it, so I'm doing an almost 40% turnover every two weeks. Really seems to help.
 
Hey Guys,

Ok, so, I dearly apologize for anyone who tried this system and had their brine shrimp keep dying on them after a day or so. I realize I had made a couple of changes to this system because I realized a couple of days after I set up the system that baby brine shrimp need constant flow and aeration, without either, they would inevitably die (at least for me).

I'm going to do a full write up on the system in an effort to apologize to anyone who tried this and it failed them. So, here we go. Word of caution, do this at your own risk, and, when you run this system for the first time, make sure it is on a day when you can be next to the tank all day, to make sure the system runs properly and does not flood your floor due to back siphoning.

I appreciate your detailed writeup of this setup, but this seems really complicated. I've started hatching my own brine and auto-feeding it, and my setup is pretty simple. Maybe I missed the issue you are solving with the extra complications of your setup.

I have a 1 gallon jug that I put water and eggs in with aeration. After 24hrs, I siphon them into a second 1 gallon jug (to separate from the eggs) with aeration and a line that goes to a peristaltic pump. The apex turns the peristaltic pump on for 15 seconds every 15 minutes the entire time the lights are on. After about three days in a row I have some extra shrimp built up in the dosing container and I can skip a day of hatching - I use this time to rinse and air dry the hatching container, and then switch it out with the other container so they both get cleaned every few days.
 
I appreciate your detailed writeup of this setup, but this seems really complicated. I've started hatching my own brine and auto-feeding it, and my setup is pretty simple. Maybe I missed the issue you are solving with the extra complications of your setup.

I have a 1 gallon jug that I put water and eggs in with aeration. After 24hrs, I siphon them into a second 1 gallon jug (to separate from the eggs) with aeration and a line that goes to a peristaltic pump. The apex turns the peristaltic pump on for 15 seconds every 15 minutes the entire time the lights are on. After about three days in a row I have some extra shrimp built up in the dosing container and I can skip a day of hatching - I use this time to rinse and air dry the hatching container, and then switch it out with the other container so they both get cleaned every few days.


I'm using a similar method as well. I have a 1/4" bulk head that acts as a drain. I use peristaltic pump to add water to container. Brine shrimp drain into tank with pasquals anthia. It was sold to me as a purple queen.
 
Hey guys. Originally I had thought about going the peristaltic pump route, and had actually tried it, but, I had been running into two problems. One, I was crushing a significant amount of the brine shrimp within the posts of the cam as it cycled, basically then causing buildup of dead/crushed bbs. The other problem was that using this system without aeration during throughout the day, all of the bbs would die after about 12-15 hours, where I had wanted the system i had to run for about 24-48 hours without much maintenance. With the first problem, I guess this is something that is easily solved with a flush of the lines, but, I was still having the problems with the bbs dying after 12 hours.

Running the system with the aeration line and the bleed valve allowed me to be able to fill a one gallon bottle and have it run for up to 48 hours. Just rinse the bottle, fill it with tank water/bbs/phyto/selcon, and it'll run for about 48 hours. Since I was at the point of doing the aeration for the system anyway, running a second pump really wasn't that much more effort.

Either way will work, different ways to the same goal really.
 
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