Failed gig treatment attempt

[Gig 'em]

As the title says, this is a story of a failed attempt in order to share my experience. I've treated several magnificas with success (one casualty) and this was my first attempt at a S. gigantea. I simply want to post pictures of the progression and an explanation of what I tried for reference. If anyone can think of something I could have done better, I would love to hear some tips!

Day 1: received the anemone and it was pretty bleached, but sticky. Acclimated it into new water, sat it on a plate, added a wave making pump, and added 500 mg of cipro. Honestly things were looking good and the anemone didn't look all that bad.

I continued conducting 50 water changes a day and adding 500 mg at night with a 250 watt MH lamp suspended about 4 feet above the treatment tank.

After 1-2 days it expelled quite a bit of brown junk and zooxanthellae.

It began inflating and deflating regularly after 2-3 days. It would always look much better at night and it fully inflated then.

After 7 days of treatment, I thought the anemone would benefit from a healthy tank system with cycled water and balanced chemical levels. I acclimated the anemone into my DT and sat the plate on the bottom corner of the tank so I could slowly acclimate it to higher light.

After 7 days in the DT with inflation/deflation cycles I decided to remove it to start another round of treatment with a different antibiotic since cipro didn't seem to do the trick. Unfortunately when I went to remove the anemone it had just died and was starting to melt away.

On day 13 it had decided to move off the plate and hide in the shadows. It died the next day. The mouth never completely closed after day 12.

It's a bit sad, but I'm hoping to generate good discussion on what could have been done better and lessons learned.

 

[beuchat]

I have treated two gigs this year and both died. For the same reason, I think the treatment period was not long enough. I did for 6 days and when returned to DT or QT they got sick again

 

[nemguy]

I've experienced the same thing but only with the bleached gigs I treated I'm thinking that there might have been too much light in my basement at night when I treated and the cipro was depleting too fast


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[Gig 'em]

I also wonder if I overdosed on the cipro. I read somewhere on here that a guy used 500 mg per 10 gallons with success so I decided to err on the side of killing the junk out of any bacteria and did the same. I know a lot of animals lose their appetite when on meds and I wonder if the anemone reacts the same to being immersed in medication. That could be why there is a sudden ejection of zooxanthellae because it doesn't like what it's experiencing and wants to rid itself of it. Then too much cipro is causing harm by reducing the population of zooxanthellae while not really improving the health of the anemone and causing it to starve faster. Just an idea to throw out there.

 

[m0nkie]

next time you should do 100% water change daily instead of 50%.

I would also monitor for a week without Cipro in the QT before putting it back into DT

 

[CoralsAddiction]

next time you should do 100% water change daily instead of 50%.

+1
that said at least you tried and hopefully you'll have a better outcome next time.

 

[Gig 'em]

next time you should do 100% water change daily instead of 50%.

I would also monitor for a week without Cipro in the QT before putting it back into DT

I agree. I have a QT tank set up, but it's been pretty neglected lately and I thought it had a better chance in the DT than the QT. If there is a next attempt, I'm going to overhaul the QT tank and make sure it's in a good condition when I first get the anemone in so it will be ready after the treatment is complete.

 

[D-Nak]

next time you should do 100% water change daily instead of 50%.

I would also monitor for a week without Cipro in the QT before putting it back into DT

+1. You can use the same tank to simply observe the nem. No need to have another QT tank. And no need for daily water changes during the second week, unless the ammonia badge shows high levels of ammonia.

I don't like putting recovering gigs in the DT directly after treatment because we still don't know what's causing the infection. For example, if it's a bacteria that's causing the infection, it could be present in the DT and healthy nems are simply able to fight it off. It's a similar scenario with ich -- many believe that it's always present in our tanks -- just at a low level where fish can fight it off.

With recovering nems, they may not have this ability to fight off the ailment, and get re-infected. Depending on how quickly you believe bacteria can become resistant to antibiotics, it could mean that Cipro treatment may not work a second time around.

Finally, some nems, particularly gigs, may be too far gone by the time we get them into treatment. I think you did the best that you could. With a few tweaks the next time around, and some luck, I think you'll be able to save the next one.

 

[Gig 'em]

Thanks for the advice everyone. What would you recommend the conditions of the QT be? Bare bottom tank with all freshly mixed water? Strong lighting? Daily water changes?

 

[D-Nak]

Thanks for the advice everyone. What would you recommend the conditions of the QT be? Bare bottom tank with all freshly mixed water? Strong lighting? Daily water changes?

Yes -- you just keep the nem in the same tank that you used for treatment, you just don't add antibiotics and there's no need to change the water every day. But keep using fresh saltwater with the same parameters for the water changes.

 

[OrionN]

I think it is important for new Gig that we do not attempt to peel them off of rock when they are stressed. Often I get them attaché to something small so I can move them from tank to tank, or take them out of hospital tank when I clean it. This way it is tress free for them. I use very bare hospital tank, even change the egg rate sometime if it get dirty and change the PH in the tank. Heater, I just wipe and wash.
I recommended change 100% of the water daily and every time I see that the water is cloudy from discharge. I just use 250 mg per 10 gal. I think this is enough of a medication dose. Most important is the 100% water change and avoid remove anemone from his attachment.

 

[OrionN]

I do use water from the DT to change water. After treatment when I monitor the anemone, I do not do daily water change. I don't feed the anemone either. Do keep the condition stable and top off at least twice a day. I marked the tank so I top off to the mark in AM and PM.

 

[taylor t]

I agree with most of what everyone says. 250 per 10 gallons 7 days. It's more important to pay close attention to the quality of your make up water. Mine used low 80 degree water, sometimes 84. I would aim for 82-83, but that's me. The first day or two you may need to do a water change every 12 hours if they gig is in really poor condition. By day 3, if it's still cloudy all the time, it's going to be a long shot. Using DT water is asking for failure if you're not a perfect reefer, some are, I'm not. I think this is where many fail that really shouldn't. I used a skilter (a HOB filter with a surface skimmer with a sponge in the back to filter the vomit/poop while I'm gone, and an air stone in the back compartment). I'd rinse the sponge in DT water every night, keep that bacteria going, but water changes make the bacteria thing a non-issue until you start to monitor after treatment, and then everything's in place and it won't skip a beat. 100% changes every day during treatment. PH is important. I aerate new water, and TT water. Every little thing you do to improve it's chances, is like adding a hair onto a scale, add enough and it will tip the direction you want it to go. Every gig is different. Try it again when you have a week of time to baby it at multiple times during the day. Add light as long as it can handle it. If it retracts, back off. I used a dimmable LED fixture I made. Add as much flow as it will handle (this cleans it internally). If it retracts, back off, but if it doesn't stay inflated with low flow, it will need high flow to flush it. High flow will keep a sick gig alive longer than low flow, when they don't inflate. If it doesn't inflate, blast it a day, then try different lower levels again. I used a piece of aged LR from a dark area of my sump for it to attach to, then it's easy to move where and when you want, and that rock won't go through all the stages of being a new rock. They like a crevice for their foot. It's not a one size fits all. Too much to type. You'll get a bunch of different reefers success stories, but when you go to try it, someone else's method won't work for you. Read as much as you can, see what different guys are successful with, light and flow-it's not all the same. The most important thing, is KEEP IT INFLATED AT ALL TIMES. It can handle loss of zoo from low light, high meds, no food, etc. It will NOT survive if it's not inflated 100% of the time. I've gone a few months of not feeding them. One month to stabilize them is no big deal not feeding. Food is risky. Some will feed and claim it's the way to do it. I've killed many, and I've been trying to tell people what the best chances of success to acclimate them is. I'd love to see more of these guys alive in other tanks. Best of luck to you, but if you're diligent to details, you won't really need luck, you'll need space.

 

[taylor t]

And when I was treating mine, I made my next days water right after water changes. It was always the same water, aged and aerated 24 hours, made the same way at the same time. This way, the chemical mixing was the same everytime. Let a bucket of water sit a week, and compare it to one that's 24 hours old. Things precipitate out. A mj1200 got it up to temp by 24 hours, no heater needed, but check it first to make sure your home temp works this way too first.

 

[Gig 'em]

I agree with most of what everyone says. 250 per 10 gallons 7 days. It's more important to pay close attention to the quality of your make up water. Mine used low 80 degree water, sometimes 84. I would aim for 82-83, but that's me. The first day or two you may need to do a water change every 12 hours if they gig is in really poor condition. By day 3, if it's still cloudy all the time, it's going to be a long shot. Using DT water is asking for failure if you're not a perfect reefer, some are, I'm not. I think this is where many fail that really shouldn't. I used a skilter (a HOB filter with a surface skimmer with a sponge in the back to filter the vomit/poop while I'm gone, and an air stone in the back compartment). I'd rinse the sponge in DT water every night, keep that bacteria going, but water changes make the bacteria thing a non-issue until you start to monitor after treatment, and then everything's in place and it won't skip a beat. 100% changes every day during treatment. PH is important. I aerate new water, and TT water. Every little thing you do to improve it's chances, is like adding a hair onto a scale, add enough and it will tip the direction you want it to go. Every gig is different. Try it again when you have a week of time to baby it at multiple times during the day. Add light as long as it can handle it. If it retracts, back off. I used a dimmable LED fixture I made. Add as much flow as it will handle (this cleans it internally). If it retracts, back off, but if it doesn't stay inflated with low flow, it will need high flow to flush it. High flow will keep a sick gig alive longer than low flow, when they don't inflate. If it doesn't inflate, blast it a day, then try different lower levels again. I used a piece of aged LR from a dark area of my sump for it to attach to, then it's easy to move where and when you want, and that rock won't go through all the stages of being a new rock. They like a crevice for their foot. It's not a one size fits all. Too much to type. You'll get a bunch of different reefers success stories, but when you go to try it, someone else's method won't work for you. Read as much as you can, see what different guys are successful with, light and flow-it's not all the same. The most important thing, is KEEP IT INFLATED AT ALL TIMES. It can handle loss of zoo from low light, high meds, no food, etc. It will NOT survive if it's not inflated 100% of the time. I've gone a few months of not feeding them. One month to stabilize them is no big deal not feeding. Food is risky. Some will feed and claim it's the way to do it. I've killed many, and I've been trying to tell people what the best chances of success to acclimate them is. I'd love to see more of these guys alive in other tanks. Best of luck to you, but if you're diligent to details, you won't really need luck, you'll need space.

Thank you so much for the advice. I thought that since I had successfully treated some magnificas to survival I would have the same luck with gigs. Seems like the gigs are a little more temperamental. Maybe one day I'll try again once I can save up enough money and another one is available at my LFS.

Does anyone know what wholesaler supplies gigs the most frequently?

 

[taylor t]

Gigs are more temperamental - only in the beginning. Once established, they are pretty resilient to water parameters. It can take a year to become established, and thriving, that's one little detail people like to not admit. Some get lucky and get one to look great much quicker, but don't expect it-not normal. No one wants to wait for a shag carpet, including me. I've watched them go down hill from low water flow, low light, no food, no water changes, etc over a period of months. After adjustments are made, they bounce right back. They only go down hill fast when they are moved, or first brought in. Once they are established and happy, they are super easy, but when things go downhill, they can go downhill fast if you aren't prepared and/or don't adjust what they want.

 

[taylor t]

I didn't mean to make it sound like that... Getting them established and happy is not super easy. Once they are though, they are no big deal to keep.