Relativity
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Is there another product that you would recommend for us Randy? The Fuana Marin stuff is always sold out anyways
Fauna Marin Trace unbalanced?
- Thread starter Randy Holmes-Farley
- Start date
To accomplish what task?
Relativity
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Balling Method I don't know of any other products that do it
So you want extra minor and trace elements, or you just want to replace what is used in calcification? A two part works for the latter, and a trace element additive works for the former. 
Relativity
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I don't know I use zeovit so Im assuming some trace comes from there.
I use red sea calcium and no carbonate so far.
I thought balling is adding trace elements to the two part
I use red sea calcium and no carbonate so far.
I thought balling is adding trace elements to the two part
I;'d suggest starting with a normal two part, such as B-ionic and other brands, or a DIY. Huge numbers of reefers are successful with these.
Two parts come with trace elements, either by design or as impurities, or both. They also contain the major and minor ions, such as sulfate, potassium, etc.
The "Balling" method may add more stuff than a standard two part, but I don't recall seeing an exact recipe. Whether that extra stuff is useful or not is open to debate, IMO. But if you want those additives, they can be bought from a host of companies that sell cocktails of additives. Kent, Seachem, etc.
Two parts come with trace elements, either by design or as impurities, or both. They also contain the major and minor ions, such as sulfate, potassium, etc.
The "Balling" method may add more stuff than a standard two part, but I don't recall seeing an exact recipe. Whether that extra stuff is useful or not is open to debate, IMO. But if you want those additives, they can be bought from a host of companies that sell cocktails of additives. Kent, Seachem, etc.
This is how a balanced Balling looks like.
Based on a 1 KH drop per day and a magnesium consumption of 10 % by molar weight of calcium.
Sr is based on what is removed + what is used at a 1/100 ratio by weight of calcium.
K and Br are based on what is removed.
Calculations 6x the standard amount for 5 liter.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wlpip4gxg9m782t/Balanced Balling.jpg
Standard amount for 2 liter
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gvfch5j0keaw9v2/Ball Cl st..jpg
Based on a 1 KH drop per day and a magnesium consumption of 10 % by molar weight of calcium.
Sr is based on what is removed + what is used at a 1/100 ratio by weight of calcium.
K and Br are based on what is removed.
Calculations 6x the standard amount for 5 liter.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wlpip4gxg9m782t/Balanced Balling.jpg
Standard amount for 2 liter
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gvfch5j0keaw9v2/Ball Cl st..jpg
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There is nothing at that drop box.
That said, what you posted says nothing about the sulfate/chloride ratio, which is the balance that is the topic of this thread.
That said, what you posted says nothing about the sulfate/chloride ratio, which is the balance that is the topic of this thread.
I'm not sure what that recipe is for, since it has more magnesium than calcium, but I'll note that it contains magnesium sulfate, hence has a substantial amount of sulfate.
The Fauna product being sold by BRS does not have the magnesium sulfate additive which your recipe does. Hence my conclusion that the Fauna BRS product is unbalanced.
here it is, for comparison:
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/catalog/product/view/id/2624/
from it:
Manufacturer's Instructions:
1st 5 L Container
1. Dissolve 2 kg of calcium chloride dihydrate in 4 liters of RO water and then fill the container with RO water.
2. NOTE: Always add the salt to the water - never vice versa!
3. Then add 25 mL Balling Light 1 - Color & Grow Elements and 25 mL Balling Light Trace 2 - Metabolic Elements to the container.
2nd 5 L Container
:
1. Dissolve 2 kg of magnesium chloride hexahydrate in 4 liters of RO water and then fill the container with RO water.
2. This new method does not require magnesium sulphate as it would accumulate in the water. Nothing else is added to this canister
3rd 5 L Container:
1. Dissolve 500 g of Carbonate Mix in 4 liters of RO water and then fill the container with RO water.
2. Then add 25 mL Balling Light Trace 3 0 Health Elements to container.
Then follow Manufacturer's Instructions for dosing.
The Fauna product being sold by BRS does not have the magnesium sulfate additive which your recipe does. Hence my conclusion that the Fauna BRS product is unbalanced.
here it is, for comparison:
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/catalog/product/view/id/2624/
from it:
Manufacturer's Instructions:
1st 5 L Container
1. Dissolve 2 kg of calcium chloride dihydrate in 4 liters of RO water and then fill the container with RO water.
2. NOTE: Always add the salt to the water - never vice versa!
3. Then add 25 mL Balling Light 1 - Color & Grow Elements and 25 mL Balling Light Trace 2 - Metabolic Elements to the container.
2nd 5 L Container
:
1. Dissolve 2 kg of magnesium chloride hexahydrate in 4 liters of RO water and then fill the container with RO water.
2. This new method does not require magnesium sulphate as it would accumulate in the water. Nothing else is added to this canister
3rd 5 L Container:
1. Dissolve 500 g of Carbonate Mix in 4 liters of RO water and then fill the container with RO water.
2. Then add 25 mL Balling Light Trace 3 0 Health Elements to container.
Then follow Manufacturer's Instructions for dosing.
I'm not sure what that recipe is for, since it has more magnesium than calcium, but I'll note that it contains magnesium sulfate, hence has a substantial amount of sulfate.
The Fauna product being sold by BRS does not have the magnesium sulfate additive which your recipe does. Hence my conclusion that the Fauna BRS product is unbalanced.
I am familiar with FM balling - the solutions and the instructions.
Besides they don't use MgSO4 -I always wondered why they don't recommend water removal - I'm pretty sure that a water-change isn't enough to remove the excess Na and Cl (unless the skimmer has removed 4.2 liter every time 168 grams of NaHCO3 is added to the tank)
The amount of magnesium in my recipe, looks like a lot but it isn't
For a 2 liter mix it is only 8.6 grams
of which 5.67 grams is replacement for 4.2*1350 mg magnesium I have removed, and 4.2*2.7 = approximately 11.5 grams of SO4, which leaves 3 grams magnesium for what is consumed
The 5 liter mix is 2.5 times a 2 liter solution *6 which make the solutions last a little longer
(except for the NaHCO3 mix) The recipe (or the calculator) is based on my own theory which says that 1 dkh is shared by calcium and magnesium.
When magnesium consumption is approx 10% of calcium (by molar mass), it is not 7.14 mg/l calcium to 1 dkh but 6.15 mg/l.
I don't change my dosing - because that is calculated by dkh consumption (water volume*dkh drop*0.357 when you mix 168 gram NaHCO3 in 2 liter)
What this calculator does - is adjusting the amount of calcium in the solution.
The more magnesium is "consumed" the less calcium I need to mix - or the less magnesium > the more calcium I have to mix.
I'm not criticizing your recipe, just the lack of sulfate in the Fauna Marin product sold by BRS.
I can not see how we have lack of sulfate in our aquariums with balling lite?I understand that we have always fixed amount of sulfate more or less in our tanks and it depends on salt that we use for waterchange.But I can see more of the problem with chloride buildup in full sps tanks that they have huge amounts of calcium usage.So then we have a chloride buildup that we will notice it with SG raising.This is real situation and reefers just make larger waterchanges to keep SG in check and also chlorides.Maybe I am wrong,maybe we should put some sulfate in balling salts to keep a better balance and I also think we could not be wrong if we always keep SG in check.
Instead of roughly 300 grams chloride and sodium which is added with a 5 liter standard balling classic solution, a bi-weekly 10% water-change for 900L doesn't change much,
it will remove only 30 grams of sodium and chloride. When the solutions are used up within 14 days, you hardly notice a difference of 0.3 ‰ salinity.
Assuming the tank-water holds 19.8 g/l chloride and 10.7 g/l sodium, than each liter removed by the skimmer holds also roughly 30 grams of Na and Cl.
But with each liter removed by the skimmer also 2.7 grams of sulfate disappears.
Unless the salt from a bucket contains the extra sulfate, only chloride will increase which can't be fixed by just water-changes no matter how big,
if not, chloride will increase and sulfate will decrease over time - hence the imbalance.
Yes,I understand that there is imbalance but it can not be a big one over time because of a SG check and waterchange.But the imbalance is excess of chloride and not lack of sulfate.
.So then we have a chloride buildup that we will notice it with SG raising.
But the imbalance is excess of chloride and not lack of sulfate.
That's right. That's an effect of Balling or any two part. I address it in my two part recipe articles. So when you drop the sg back to normal, as you must, the sulfate declines each time if you didn't add any.
But the imbalance is excess of chloride and not lack of sulfate.
That's right. That's an effect of Balling or any two part. I address it in my two part recipe articles. So when you drop the sg back to normal, as you must, the sulfate declines each time if you didn't add any.
