Feeding fish affecting SPS corals? YES!!!!

[dgasmd]

Well, I have been home for a couple of weeks on vacation, so I decided to do a little test. A few months back, I had a major turn around on my corals. Things started to grow very well, colors blossoming, etc. Although I had done some major changes in my habits at the same time, I always suspected for some reason that the pellet food I was adding 4 times per day with a feeding timer was a major culprit if not THE culprit. However, how to test that was another story. Since then, I stopped feeding those pellets altogether and now feed every 2-3 days with nothing but PE mysis and maybe once per week some cyclopeeze in addition to the frozen foods. I may also add once per week a bit of decapsulated brine shrimp eggs. The last 2 mostly for the anthias despite not being able to tell a difference from multiple daily feedings to every other day.

These past two weeks I fed nothing but the pellets again. The fish simply love this stuff . With everything else being equal, including water changes, the coral color have gone to the crapper in several of them. A couple of corals even began to RTN for no particular reason while they had been doing very well and coloring for months. Was that a direct effect? It would be too much to assume it was I think. Not all corals seem affected. LPS do not seem to care as much, but acros certainly do. Some montiporas seem not so bright too. The puzzling thing to me is that PO4 by a Hanna colorimeter and nitrates by salifert test kits remains exactly the same as before. However, what has been drastically convincing for me at least is that these pellet foods is not something I will continue to add ever!!!

This brings up many questions in my mind though. What could be in the food affecting the corals? Was this simply an extraordinary case of coincidence? I don't know, but since I stopped feeding this food today, I am hoping my colors will come back over the next 1-2 weeks. I am due for MH bulb changes, but I will wait for a couple of more weeks before changing them not to add any more confounding factors.

I am sure you all are wondering what food it was. Although I am a little hesitant to say the name, I think I will in 2 weeks when I see what, if any difference, has occurred without using it. I would hate to give these people some bad publicity if it is unwarranted. Especially since I have never read anything bad about it.

So, what foods have you noticed to affect your tank??

 

[miwoodar]

Will you take before after pictures?

 

[dgasmd]

The main problem with doing that is that I did not take pictures before I started feeding the pellets again. So, showing picture of what it looks like now and maybe in a few weeks will mean nothing as you cannot comapred to before.

 

[rockindacheeks]

you dont think it has to do with the lamps needing to be replaced?

 

[Eric Boerner]

I use spectrum grow fairly heavy. Coloration and growth have never been an issue using it.

Two things stand out:

1. You say you need to replace bulbs. Something I notice is that on my halides, the spectrum tends to drop out very rapidly once they're at their peek, turn greenish, and completely die within a month of that.

2. You were adding brine egg when you had the increase in intensity. This is small enough for polyps to capture and use. This may have contributed. Most people since a major impact when they go from not using cyclopese to using it, which is basically the same consistancy as the brine eggs (but better).

You were also adding frozen food, which tends to contain micro bacteria & amino acids in the water when it unfreezes. Both contribute to coral feeding and success.

 

[dgasmd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8006509#post8006509 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Eric Boerner
I use spectrum grow fairly heavy. Coloration and growth have never been an issue using it.

Two things stand out:

1. You say you need to replace bulbs. Something I notice is that on my halides, the spectrum tends to drop out very rapidly once they're at their peek, turn greenish, and completely die within a month of that.

2. You were adding brine egg when you had the increase in intensity. This is small enough for polyps to capture and use. This may have contributed. Most people since a major impact when they go from not using cyclopeese to using it, which is basically the same consistency as the brine eggs (but better).

You were also adding frozen food, which tends to contain micro bacteria & amino acids in the water when it unfreezes. Both contribute to coral feeding and success.

Your points are well taken. However, the bulb is or should not be an issue. They are XM 10,000K and have 9 months into them at 6 hr/day. Same light schedule for the last 2 years. I said it needed changing probably wrong as I should have said I was going to change them, no needing to change them. I've been wanting to try the EVC 10,000K instead. Also, I should have said that in addition to the pellets with the auto feeder, I was also using the same frozen foods and amount in addition to it at the same interval I use now. In other words, I just took the auto feeder out of he equation and left the other foods on, which were only every 2-3 days.

I never said this was a definite. But, it does beg the question strongly if everything else is the same. We'll see what, if any, effect going back to the frozen only have on the coloration. I should mention before someone thinks this is happening on a 20g tank, that this is in my 1000g system with a very small bioload for the volume and extensive skimming and flow.

 

[javajaws]

Interesing. Can you define "gone to the crapper"? lighter? darker? browner?

I use pellet food every other day along with a slew of other chings (cyclopeeze, phyto, oyster eggs, GP, mysis, etc.). And while I have had problems with some of my SPS "going to the crapper" I can directly attribute that to other causes that have been addressed. However, If there's anything left that's preventing them from "getting off the crapper" I'm all ears.

 

[dgasmd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8007546#post8007546 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by javajaws
Interesing. Can you define "gone to the crapper"? lighter? darker? browner?

They have not gotten lighter. If anything, a little darker. However, the glowing oclors have either become dull or disappeared. The bright purple and bloue tips gone, the orangie streaks gone, etc.

Remember, this is no absolute. I am merely pointing out an observation, and until proven to be otherwise, it is nothing but an observation. Take it for what it is worth to you...........

 

[GMAX]

My guess is like suggest above, its not the pellets its the absense of the small diameter food that can be ingested by the corals. Why dont you go buy some DT oyster eggs, and feed that twice a week while maintaining the pellets and see if you corals dont respond?

 

[REEF-DADDY]

What your seeing sounds alike like what I have seen when I have cut back feeding. I run 5-7 ppm No3 in an atempt to reduce it I cut way back on feeding. My corals lost alot pop. I like GMAX's idea alot

 

[dgasmd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8007293#post8007293 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dgasmd
Also, I should have said that in addition to the pellets with the auto feeder, I was also using the same frozen foods and amount in addition to it at the same interval I use now. In other words, I just took the auto feeder out of he equation and left the other foods on, which were only every 2-3 days.

Maybe you guys missed my answer above. I had an auto feeder with the pellets and also was feeding the frozen foods like I do now in addition to it. I just took out the auto feeder and left the same schedule of frozen foods as before.

It would be interesting to see if adding other minute foods that acros and montiporas can actually consume would enhance coloration after the color come back. Another experiment for another day.:lol: :lol:

 

[piercho]

What do you think the connection with the pellet food is? I would say pellet food is a fairly concentrated source of nutrients, so there is the increased nutrient input to the tank, and it may be easy to underestimate how much additional input that is. Then there is what is in the food besides the nutrients... some additive/chemical/preservative that disagrees with the coral.

I'd be inclined to follow your instincts that the pellet food is causing a problem, myself. Do the fish suffer from the reduced feeding frequency? If so, maybe you could experiment with a different dry food. Anyway, its an interesting observation about the food and the coral.

 

[Sk8r]

Pellet food, so I have been told, elevates phosphates. Running phosban, so I have also been told, can affect sps negatively by depriving zooxanthellae of nutrient. Perhaps there is a very delicate balance on this point.

 

[northbay-reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8008472#post8008472 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dgasmd
They have not gotten lighter. If anything, a little darker. However, the glowing oclors have either become dull or disappeared. The bright purple and bloue tips gone, the orangie streaks gone, etc.

Remember, this is no absolute. I am merely pointing out an observation, and until proven to be otherwise, it is nothing but an observation. Take it for what it is worth to you...........

Very interesting, I use pellet food exclusively and notice all my corals get darker when I add them to my tank even after several years the color stayed dark simmilar like you have described. I'll try the same experiment and let you and other know if it makes any different

 

[Eric Boerner]

There are two classes of phosphates, organic and inorganic. Both can be consumed by flagallets in the reef system. What happens though, is that flagallets that consume inorganic phosphate are pass over by polyps rather than ones that take in organic phosphate. Studies have shown that polyps do contain a significant amount of organic phosphate but reject inorganic phosphate matter.

If the dry food contains contains inorganic phosphate, such as ash, it tends to increase algae matter, which is then rejected by most organisms in the system. This is why algae blooms occure rapidly. Many company's are getting it and are producing low phosphate foods.

On the otherhand, inorganic phosphate is used up through flagallets and then easily consumed by other organisms. Corals will take in the flagallets along with other in situ matter, such as bacteria and tend to flourish because of it.

Phos-bannning, Zeoing, etc, removes all forms of phosphate, organic or not which inhibits the growth of flagallets, which inhibits other forms of organic matter that corals can consume. Which is why it is nessisary to add back what you take out when using these measures.

 

[DaddyJax]

I have not used used pellets for this reason. I believe they are alot like cheap dry dogfood. The companies put all of the waist products in it and use a binder to keep its form.

I do believe there is something to this and should be looked into further. What goes in must come out. The fish are breaking this stuff down and releasing it into the tank and I am sure that it has taken on a very soluble form by then.

 

[ReeferAl]

There is another potential relationship between the pellets and the problems. It may not so much be the feeding of the pellets but the fact of suddenly adding them to the feeding regimen. It's possible you would not see any of those effects if you added them back slowly and then gradually increased the feedings.
This could happen due to a gradual increase in the tank's ability to process the added nutrients. I know that the pellet food I feed does not seem to have any negative effect. The corals have slowly improved in color while at the same time I have gradually increased feedings, including pellets.
You may not want to "experiment" that much with your 1000 gal system, but it would be interesting to see what would happen if, after the corals had regained their glory, you restarted feeding pellets, but gradually.

Allen

 

[ulua56]

Hmmmmm , I stopped useing O.N formula one pellets,2 months ago because of the same reason, I now only feed frozen mysis and fortified brine shrimp. my tank is back to normal

 

[dgasmd]

reeferal:

When I started to feed the pellets months ago, it was gradually. It started with a little every day to a couple of times per day to eventually adding the auto feeder. They substituted the flakes I was using at the time.

 

[SPStoner]

Pellets, like flake or other prepared foods, are not all created equally. many times the ingredients used are not completely digestible, thus creating water quality issues when they have passed through the fishes digestive tracts. Not to mention any uneaten food that falls to the rocks or substrate. Add to that the fact that many well known fish food companies do not have very good research facilities, and have based their formulations on the work of others, in some cases from commercial food fish hatcheries. These particular foods are designed to grow fish quickly and in some cases, like salmon, to encourage a specific color of the flesh. Not much though is given to long term health or water quality. There are only a handful of quality prepared dry fish foods on the market today.


My2beans