Finally! In Tank AEFW Treatment Success

[Laser Lammons]

What made you think that raising the K would be a way to kill them off? I mean, it makes total sense in hindsight. I wish I would have thought of it!

Late night brainstorming watching a death row show. Injections with potassium chloride and then whamo!! We did test the technique by dipping and observing prior to going for it. After seeing the aefw fly off and then melt and the frag recovered nicely the show was on. As you stated the fish present a problem to many with this technique who cannot catch them prior and I do not recommend stunning them unless that is the only option. That being said I guess we were quick and saved most when they were stunned so I feel it was just lucky.

 

[jda]

There was an article in Japanese about doing so. It was hard to understand even when translated, but here it is:
http://www.ph84.idv.tw/vbb/showthread.php?t=191451

 

[acabgd]

There was an article in Japanese about doing so. It was hard to understand even when translated, but here it is:
http://www.ph84.idv.tw/vbb/showthread.php?t=191451

Actually, it's Chinese as the forum is from Taiwan, but nice find anyway.

 

[Laser Lammons]

The past 2 days the tank has developed a nasty grey algae all over the sand bed. I suspect that a good part of the bacteria has died off. Still showing no nitrates and phosphates still at 0.01 per hanna meter. Hopefully the acros can hang in there..

 

[Laser Lammons]

The bio die off from the treatments continued to take a toll on the inhabitants and ammonia tests were showing a trace. The sand bed was covered with algae. We decided to go ahead and vacuum the sand bed. Well it appears a few days later that was the final trick. In all the years I have been in the hobby I have never seen any type of overnight success but THIS was a first. The same night we vacuumed the sand bed the SPS already had PE again and regaining colors. Colors continued to come back quickly and are now looking really good again. The sand bed did not seem to have any detrius left as it was decayed into small white ball substances. The water we removed was black and enough to make you gag.
I spoke with Kate Rawlinson yesterday about the events and they will be replicating the process asap. They will also be running the treatments on a BB tank to see effects on liverock and if the liverock bio die off will survive enough to support the system without a sand bed. We are still AEFW free and tank is headed back in right direction. We estimate that we lost about 15% of our SPS throughout the 3 treatments but most was already heavily infected and we feel they would have been lost with current techniques of removal from tank and dip treatments anyway. Yes there were fish losses,invert losses, and a wipe out of the clean up crew, a major shift from low to high nutrient causing a major algae outbreak, but we consider this a tremendous success with all the SPS we were able to save. All fish and inhabitants are doing well and back in the display. A new clean up crew was added about 10 days ago and with all the hard work they put in and the cleaning of the sand bed the algae is already under control, ammonia levels gone, and tank back to normal. Good luck to all going forward who elect to attempt this treatment as there is no doubt now that AEFW can be treated with an in tank procedure.

 

[Ajskennels]

thanks for the update, but do you really think its been enough time to 100% confirm the treatment will completely rid the tank of AEFW, ive seen people go months ( me included) thinking they had them beat but to see them come back?

 

[Laser Lammons]

thanks for the update, but do you really think its been enough time to 100% confirm the treatment will completely rid the tank of AEFW, ive seen people go months ( me included) thinking they had them beat but to see them come back?

Yes I do at this time believe that. If the tank gets them again it will be due to a reintroduction and poor qt method.
I could be wrong but I am also not a cup half empty kind of person :celeb1:

I will continue to watch of course. I would also bet that anyone you know that battled them with any methods suffered some losses and we all know how that makes us feel the need to replace... just sayin all probably introduced more corals into the tank with the same methods that previously allowed it occur in the first place. We will implement this as a dipping procedure as well for all corals entering the treated display to judge fairly and get good info.

 

[Saltwaternooby]

Subscribed i would like to see a update in a month or 2, but i is a great hope for a in tank treatment.

 

[Laser Lammons]

With great pain I must now post that we are experiencing losses of the sps colonies. The nutrient swing was too much for the tank evidently and the ammonia and nitrates were both elevated. We attempted several water changes to bring down the levels but no luck. In the last 2 days we have lost approximately 25% of the remaining SPS stock with a majority of the remaining colonies also effected already at the bases. The RTN is happening in an accelerated fashion and a total loss of sps is now expected by morning, although we do still have about 10 colonies that look perfect so go figure.. In a ray of good news the ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites are now in check as well as phospates but it appears too late. All other corals remain totally healthy and the chalices and LPS are actually seeing an accelerated growth rate due to the nutrient explosion. We will give updates on further losses but at this point I cannot promote this in tank method until further research from Kate and her team yield better results. I am convinced, and even took out several sps for observation and cannot find any signs of aefw, that we killed the aefw but the nutrient explosion proved to much to handle through usual means of nutrient export (I.E. skimming, filter socks, water changes, gfo, carbon).

SO UNFORTUNATELY CAN THE MODS PLEASE CHANGE TO TITLE OF THE THREAD!! (maybe to ANOTHER AEFW in tank try gone bad) No further losses need to occur. I believe that this is a tremendous weapon as a dip against aefw but then again the eggs remain the question... DAMN!!!!!!!!!Sorry for the vent but to watch all the losses brings tears to my eyes...

 

[bk_market]

hang in there...

 

[rEeFnWrX]

Sorry to hear that.

I wonder if a ZEOVit tank could handle the nutrient loads...

Many ZEOVit systems have survived spawning without much need for additional maintenance

 

[sahin]

So sorry for the loss of your corals.

I applaud you for trying and then coming back and reporting that it didnt work. At least you guys tried.

I understand how you feel when you say the losses brings tears to your eyes...I lost a whole tank years ago...

If it is at all possible, you could try moving the surviving coral to a healthy setup...eg maybe like someones LPS tank etc...so they are not bothered that the SPS may be infected with AEFW. Once the corals have recovered bring them back and maybe dip them...

Just sucks big time. I am quite annoyed that we are still without an in tank cure...I mean there must be loads of different flatworm meds out there; one of them must work...but most of the companies in this hobby just create potions...never do real research.

 

[rEeFnWrX]

Only if we could identify one of the AEFW's natural predators.... something has got to keep them in check in the wild

 

[Laser Lammons]

we have continued to loose sps in the last few days. I continue to observe and have yet to see any aefw HOWEVER maybe a game changer today. I pulled out some frags that we cut from mothers while trying to save them and noticed on the base where they were already starting to rtn there were little black spots. At first I thought just dead skin or maybe algae but when I put on my cheaters and put it under light it was tiny black bugs. I pulled a few more sps frags and a couple of mini colonies we cut to save and sure enough they all have them!!!! REALLY????
So I guess the tank must have been infested with aefw and these little black bugs and the black bugs did not get killed in the KCL treatments? These are NOT red bugs ( I have had them, seen them and can spot them) but look just like them but they are black. Anyway not sure where to go from here. ALL chalices, zoas, LPS continue to thrive with not a single issue. I have read some have tried interceptor on the black bugs. I can tell you that I prepared a 24ml sample tank water with 2ml bayer and soaked them for 25 minutes and it did NOT touch the black bugs!! I am going back to try different dips but I feel sure the KCL dip will not work or I could not have them in the first place..

OHHHHH More confusion...:uhoh3:

 

[Laser Lammons]

so here is what I was able to find. I have never heard of black bugs but they are referenced here
http://www.reefdup.com/2013/01/25/black-bugs-gray-bugs-invisible-killers/

Does anyone have any experience with these pests??

 

[Laser Lammons]

In an effort to save some of the acropora I went ahead and performed the interceptor treatment. I was able to order the pills online from Australia I believe a few months back for emergency. I figure this is it...Just put a 200% dosage in tonight (due to some posts I had read relating to the black bugs taking a higher dose). Will observe later tonight but I already have seen a few spots they were visible they have released and went somewhere...Fingers crossed..
For all of those now wondering yes I do now believe there to be some type of relationship between aefw and red/black bugs. This is just way to much of a coincidence....Hope you are still tuning in Kate! I know you guys were going to take a look at this as well coming up so a little more proof. Maybe I have killed the aefw, but the KCl did not kill the red/black bugs, and they are now taking over without any competition. Not so hard to believe the KCL did not kill them as many of the snails actually were fine after a few days of hibernation. (well i say fine - they were moving and eating algae). And maybe just maybe I can now wipe out the red/black bugs and nothing left??? We shall soon see.. It was certainly worth a try in my book..Stay tuned for the soap opera.

 

[Dave & Monica]

Hey man, sorry to hear you're going through such a hard time. Thanks for documenting your trials and pain. I feel for ya man.

 

[awdjosh]

Laser Lemmons, definitely a correlation between aefw and redbugs...tthis may sound crazy but I purposely infected my shallow sps tank full of acro with redbugs as I was losing a dipping battle against aefw(contracted even though bayer dipping all incoming frags). The results were insane, within two weeks the aefw bite marks were fading, less aefw coming off frags when turkey basting three times a day and sps starting to grow again. That was in NOV14. Present day, yes my tank has redbugs but I can't find a single aefw and have zero loss of sps, everythings growing, coloring up and no visible damage from redbugs.

 

[CuzzA]

Laser Lemmons, definitely a correlation between aefw and redbugs...tthis may sound crazy but I purposely infected my shallow sps tank full of acro with redbugs as I was losing a dipping battle against aefw(contracted even though bayer dipping all incoming frags). The results were insane, within two weeks the aefw bite marks were fading, less aefw coming off frags when turkey basting three times a day and sps starting to grow again. That was in NOV14. Present day, yes my tank has redbugs but I can't find a single aefw and have zero loss of sps, everythings growing, coloring up and no visible damage from redbugs.

Wow, so perhaps the redbugs are a predator to AEFW? Someone needs to test this in a controlled environment. And maybe those who blamed redbuds as being the cause to loses was just coincidence and there was an underlying issue. My guess is most tanks have redbugs whether the owner knows it or not. This would be fantastic to learn we have labeled redbugs as a detriment only to find they are actually beneficial to acros.

 

[Laser Lammons]

Well the morning after and as I expected the black bugs seem to eat interceptor for snacks. TOTALLY uneffected by the treatment. We even dosed at 250% the recommended dosage.. So maybe just perform another this morning without a water change?