fish from Coral Reef on Sylvania?
- Thread starter bigbenji
- Start date
OneThunder
New member
When I can bring myself to do this, who would take my cowfish?
OneThunder
New member
Hair algea??What is hair algea??:eek1:
OneThunder
New member
Never once did the guy that sold us our tank ever mention a "quarantine tank". Just a lot of instructions about curing the live rock and not putting fish in it until it's cycled. How long should you keep a fish in a "qt" after you buy it? how big are your quarantine tanks? Do you put sand or crushed coral or nothing in the bottom? Do you run a protein skimmer in a qt?
OneThunder
New member
I am looking at the bottle right now. Here is the front:
Ruby Reef
Reef Safe! No Copper!
Kick-Ich, (TM), for the treatment of freshwater and marine Ich. Safe for all fish, corals and invertebrates. Kick Ich (TM)
The back:
Kick Ich (TM)
-biodegradable
-Safe for Nitrosomonas,Nitrobacter and other bacteria essential to biofiltration.
-Easy dose bottle
Directions
For 15 day treatment
Begining on day #1 add 2.0 ozs of Kick-Ich (TM) for each 25 gallons of total water volume for the entire aquarium + filter system(s). Repeat on days #4,#7,#10,and #13 whether or not spots continue to be visible. (For heavy infestations repeat on days #3,#5,#7 #10 and #13} Persistent infections may require repeating the cycle. Do not use carbon or similar absorbent media during treatment(phosphate absorbents are OK). Protein skimmers can appreciably reduce effectiveness of the treatment. Safe for all fish (including scaless fish),plants corals and invertebrates. Will not affect biofiltration.
WARNINGS
Safe when used in combination with RAlly (TM), but not recommended for use with other treatments, chemicals or drugs. NOT FOR HUMAN OR ANIMAL USE OR CONSUMPTION. FOR HOBBY AQUARIUM FISH ONLY.NOT FOR USE IN AQUACULTURE OR FOR THE PRODUCTION OF COMMODITITIES FOR HUMAN OR ANIMAL CONSUMPTION.
Active ingredients: 5-nitroimidazoles
Ruby Reef, Inc. Silver spring MD 20904
bigdaddyadam
New member
yeah, I just checked it out when I was at the store earlier today, it appears that they changed the label on the back of the bottle because it is different than the last bottle that I bought a few years back. what that means I have no idea, but I distinctly remember what it used to say.
however, even if I AM wrong about what the label used to say, irregardless, if you really want your ich to go away, I'm afraid you are barking up the wrong tree
see this page on wetwebmedia and see the question "ich help"
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/homeopathfaqs.htm
do further searches on WWM, RC, and numerous other sites, and you will see that person after person who has been in the hobby a long time and almost every person who has used this stuff that has a true understanding of how ich operates will say it does not work, that it can and often does kill inverts including corals, and that by delaying an effective treatment you are risking the death of your fish. this is not just me but almost every credible member of the reef community that says this stuff doesn't work, flat out, plain and simple.
if you pour it in and the ich goes away, it was probably just a freak occurance that the fish's own immunity kicked in around the same time and in that case the ich will come back. even if it worked 25% of the time (which if you read reviews much less than 25% of people who have used it have much good to say about it) then 75% of the time it does not work, and so you are taking a huge risk when 100% effective methods that are cheaper and in the case of a fish only tank almost as easy to do are available.
this is the last I will participate in this thread because I am frustrated, you have been warned and I feel I've done what I can, if your fish don't make it I will be sorry, but you can't say I didn't try to tell you.
however, even if I AM wrong about what the label used to say, irregardless, if you really want your ich to go away, I'm afraid you are barking up the wrong tree
see this page on wetwebmedia and see the question "ich help"
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/homeopathfaqs.htm
do further searches on WWM, RC, and numerous other sites, and you will see that person after person who has been in the hobby a long time and almost every person who has used this stuff that has a true understanding of how ich operates will say it does not work, that it can and often does kill inverts including corals, and that by delaying an effective treatment you are risking the death of your fish. this is not just me but almost every credible member of the reef community that says this stuff doesn't work, flat out, plain and simple.
if you pour it in and the ich goes away, it was probably just a freak occurance that the fish's own immunity kicked in around the same time and in that case the ich will come back. even if it worked 25% of the time (which if you read reviews much less than 25% of people who have used it have much good to say about it) then 75% of the time it does not work, and so you are taking a huge risk when 100% effective methods that are cheaper and in the case of a fish only tank almost as easy to do are available.
this is the last I will participate in this thread because I am frustrated, you have been warned and I feel I've done what I can, if your fish don't make it I will be sorry, but you can't say I didn't try to tell you.
Last edited:
OneThunder
New member
see this page on wetwebmedia and see the question "ich help"
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/homeopathfaqs.htm
now I almost resigned myself to the idea that Gary indeed dupe me into buying kick ich, and was reading this recommended link when I saw this...
The idea that a compound can kill a protozoan but not kill other bacterial and invertebrate life is craziness...
now in medicine, there is a test called a culture and sensitivity. It is done to determine exactly what organism is infecting. This is done because there are specific antibiotics for specific bacteria. And again, specific anti fungals, for specific fungii, etc, etc. And yes these compounds do kill certain species and not others. Example: a person takes an antibiotic for a sinus problem. It gives them diarreaha. This is because the antibiotic killed some of the resident micro organisms in there gastrointestinal tract (that are suppose to be there for digestion) and this in turned caused an "over growth" of bacteria that causes the diarreaha. I always recommend the patient to eat yogurt for the course of the antibiotic in order to replenish the "good" bacteria.
another example would be taking an antibiotic and developing Thrush, or a yeast infection. Same principle applies.
http://aac.asm.org/cgi/content/full/43/1/73
of course they are not testing for "ich" this is an abstract for the treatment of human diseases. (and probably it follows for animals for consumption)
Indeed, I believed this was a forum for discussion, new ideas, debate. I have no opinion on Kick ich, I am searching for what another reader termed "what makes it tick". An internet search only turns up message boards, forums and the like. I have been searching for scientific studies.
Update: no new spots on Nemo, only able to see one spot on Doobie. No other fish seem to have any spots at this time. Nothing at all on the black keyhole angel fish.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/homeopathfaqs.htm
now I almost resigned myself to the idea that Gary indeed dupe me into buying kick ich, and was reading this recommended link when I saw this...
The idea that a compound can kill a protozoan but not kill other bacterial and invertebrate life is craziness...
now in medicine, there is a test called a culture and sensitivity. It is done to determine exactly what organism is infecting. This is done because there are specific antibiotics for specific bacteria. And again, specific anti fungals, for specific fungii, etc, etc. And yes these compounds do kill certain species and not others. Example: a person takes an antibiotic for a sinus problem. It gives them diarreaha. This is because the antibiotic killed some of the resident micro organisms in there gastrointestinal tract (that are suppose to be there for digestion) and this in turned caused an "over growth" of bacteria that causes the diarreaha. I always recommend the patient to eat yogurt for the course of the antibiotic in order to replenish the "good" bacteria.
another example would be taking an antibiotic and developing Thrush, or a yeast infection. Same principle applies.
http://aac.asm.org/cgi/content/full/43/1/73
of course they are not testing for "ich" this is an abstract for the treatment of human diseases. (and probably it follows for animals for consumption)
Indeed, I believed this was a forum for discussion, new ideas, debate. I have no opinion on Kick ich, I am searching for what another reader termed "what makes it tick". An internet search only turns up message boards, forums and the like. I have been searching for scientific studies.
Update: no new spots on Nemo, only able to see one spot on Doobie. No other fish seem to have any spots at this time. Nothing at all on the black keyhole angel fish.
bigdaddyadam
New member
okay, I swore I was done but i must comment
first, you are probably not going to find any scientific info on kick-ich, very little real research is done on subjects or projects involving aquaria. the best you can hope for is the expertise of people like Julian Sprung, Anthony Calfo, Eric Borneman, Ron Shimek, Steven Pro, and other people who have been involved in aquaria for a long time. some of them do very indepth research into this stuff and their info is good, but nowhere near the level of research that has been done on marine biology in the wild, that is where most focus is.
all expert opinions I have read on these expirimental "reef safe" treatments especially kick-ich have said it does not work at the least and that it may actually do harm.
I am not trying to stiffle debate, the thing is that when something clearly does not work, the debate is over and it is foolish to proceed.
people make similar claims about all kinds of crazy stuff all the time ie. magnet bracelets make you stay healthy, etc. fact is they just don't, it's BS, and to pretend like there is a debate there is wrong, all you have is hopeful people being dupped.
I pursue this so adamently because of two things, first, I think the fact that kick-ich and it's ilk are still sold in fish stores despite the fact that they simply don't work, just so LFS can make a buck is reprehensible. and second I hate to see someone make the same mistake I did unneccissarily, lose a lot of expensive and loved pets, and in my case almost give up the hobby because of it.
I also think that trying a wing and a prayer solution like this when a perfectly 100% easy solution like hypo-salinty will work, will set you on a bad precident for the hobby. the first major thing a person learns about saltwater aquaria is that if something seems too easy it is. keeping a healthy tank is not hard but it takes dedication and a comitment not to cut certain corners. when you cut corners you WILL have a disaster in this hobby. I for one wish I could go back and QT all fish from the very beginning.
finally, I am pushing for you to do hypo-salinty because you have ABSOLUTELY no reason not to. you have a fish only tank, therefore you don't even have to take any fish out of the tank to do it, you just add freshwater to the tank in place of saltwater, slowly over some time, until the SG is at the right level and then keep it that way for a month, then slowly bring it back up, the fish will almost certainly be no worse for wear and you will definatively have cured ANY possibility of ich. it is a win win situation.
first, you are probably not going to find any scientific info on kick-ich, very little real research is done on subjects or projects involving aquaria. the best you can hope for is the expertise of people like Julian Sprung, Anthony Calfo, Eric Borneman, Ron Shimek, Steven Pro, and other people who have been involved in aquaria for a long time. some of them do very indepth research into this stuff and their info is good, but nowhere near the level of research that has been done on marine biology in the wild, that is where most focus is.
all expert opinions I have read on these expirimental "reef safe" treatments especially kick-ich have said it does not work at the least and that it may actually do harm.
I am not trying to stiffle debate, the thing is that when something clearly does not work, the debate is over and it is foolish to proceed.
people make similar claims about all kinds of crazy stuff all the time ie. magnet bracelets make you stay healthy, etc. fact is they just don't, it's BS, and to pretend like there is a debate there is wrong, all you have is hopeful people being dupped.
I pursue this so adamently because of two things, first, I think the fact that kick-ich and it's ilk are still sold in fish stores despite the fact that they simply don't work, just so LFS can make a buck is reprehensible. and second I hate to see someone make the same mistake I did unneccissarily, lose a lot of expensive and loved pets, and in my case almost give up the hobby because of it.
I also think that trying a wing and a prayer solution like this when a perfectly 100% easy solution like hypo-salinty will work, will set you on a bad precident for the hobby. the first major thing a person learns about saltwater aquaria is that if something seems too easy it is. keeping a healthy tank is not hard but it takes dedication and a comitment not to cut certain corners. when you cut corners you WILL have a disaster in this hobby. I for one wish I could go back and QT all fish from the very beginning.
finally, I am pushing for you to do hypo-salinty because you have ABSOLUTELY no reason not to. you have a fish only tank, therefore you don't even have to take any fish out of the tank to do it, you just add freshwater to the tank in place of saltwater, slowly over some time, until the SG is at the right level and then keep it that way for a month, then slowly bring it back up, the fish will almost certainly be no worse for wear and you will definatively have cured ANY possibility of ich. it is a win win situation.
selgado
Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6827861#post6827861 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by OneThunder
Update: no new spots on Nemo, only able to see one spot on Doobie. No other fish seem to have any spots at this time. Nothing at all on the black keyhole angel fish.
OneThunder I'm sorry, I'm only vaguely keeping up with this thread. You might have already been over it, but what do you think is helping your fish?
John
OneThunder
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6828660#post6828660 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado
OneThunder You might have already been over it, but what do you think is helping your fish?
John [/QUOT
Chapter 1
Reading about Ich.
Chapter 2
Reading more about Ich
Chapter 3
Paranoia sets in-Discovering a white spot on Nemo
Chapter 4
3 hours at the computer reading about remedies for Ich
Chapter 5
Finding article by long time marine aquarist that told about his mistaken Ich identification versus some "bubbles" from a protein skimmer. (which incidently we recently installed)
Chapter 6
On going debate on Ich remedies and information on incompatible tank mates, overcrowding and water quality
Chapter 7
No new white spots
OneThunder
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6832413#post6832413 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by weimers75
Adam, I totally agree about hypo for a fish only tank. I had corals, and therefore couldn't try the hypo solution. Kick-Ich seemed to work for me so far, its been several months, but like you said-the immunities may hae kicked it. Hopefully, it won't come back
IF fish had the "immunity" would they have only one on their fins? and then disappear and show up on their tail? And if they are immune, would the Ich disappear from the tank because of not having a host? (that's what I'm thinking). Could you reinfest your tank with new live rock? (something other than a fish)? :eek2:
bigdaddyadam
New member
you can reinfest with just about anything, but it is much less likely than a fish doing it, some people qt everything some only fish.
when I had ich one day you would see it on one area, then another, the some days none, it goes in cycles and it is only a very short part of the cycle that it is visible on the fish, most is spent under the skin, in the water column, and in the sandbed. when mine were free swimming I could actually see them but they are VERY small, I used a magnifying glass to get a good look.
unfortunately immunity probably will keep them at bay except a small number of really hardy ones that will spring up again during stress. I always worry it will return to my tank some day, and in that case I will do hypo in a hospital tank, having not done so because last outbreak I didn't get the hypo info until it was already in remmission.
when I had ich one day you would see it on one area, then another, the some days none, it goes in cycles and it is only a very short part of the cycle that it is visible on the fish, most is spent under the skin, in the water column, and in the sandbed. when mine were free swimming I could actually see them but they are VERY small, I used a magnifying glass to get a good look.
unfortunately immunity probably will keep them at bay except a small number of really hardy ones that will spring up again during stress. I always worry it will return to my tank some day, and in that case I will do hypo in a hospital tank, having not done so because last outbreak I didn't get the hypo info until it was already in remmission.
Dubbin1
Active member
Jen just out of curiosity how do you know it came from a coral? I know it "can" happen but narrowing it down to that is hard to do since ich can live in our tanks for a long time without showing any signs on the fish. My fowlr tank went for over a year with no new additions and no signs of ich until one day 4 fish came up with a bad case of it.
OneThunder
New member
Okay. I was so afraid to put the kick ich in with all the controversy, so I read steven pro's article over and over. Hubby says we will start the hyposalinity treatment. I have to pick up a refractometer tomorrow, well maybe Wednesday, I'm on call for the next couple of nights in addition to working during the day (ah the life of a hospice nurse). Do fish stores really take back fish? I'm hating to get rid of Doobie, I read where only the Blue cowfish from Hawaii gives off the toxin. Anyone read that? Sigh. BTW Spot and Beauty LOVE the sand eels. And they don't seem to make a mess like the krill.
