ReefWaters
Premium Member
AlaskanPredator, how big is your tank? How big is the panther right now? They are full of personalitly and great fish to keep.
Fish Survey: Panther Grouper
- Thread starter Seafan
- Start date
justinc0708
New member
hey you guys i have a question.i was wanting a panther grouper i have a 75 gallon.i was wanting to keep him with one of the smaller lions.my question is how big do they get and does it take long to get that big?thanks
ReefWaters
Premium Member
Justinc0708 - Panthers are great fish but it will outgrow a 75 gallon in only a few years. In the wild this fish will get to more than two feet in length. It is unlikely that it will get that large in captivity in anything other than the largest of aquariums. However it will quickly reach a foot or more in length. I would personally not keep this fish in anything less than about 200 gallons and many people would probably say even larger. This is a VERY popular fish at fish stores and this fish is often kept in aquariums that are too small for it to thrive. It will do fine for a few years but you need to have a plan on what to do with this fish when it outgrows your current 75. Good luck and keep us posted.
justinc0708
New member
yea thanks maybe i will get it and just upgrade in the future.
Jerm77
New member
SELECTION
Did you mail order this fish and would you recommend mail order this fish?
Local Fish Store, taken directly from whole seller shipment, Atlantis Aquarium. atlantisaquarium.net
COMPATIBILITY
What tankmates do you have with this fish?Is it a reef or FO tank? FO tank.
Niger Trigger, porcupine puffer, humu humu trigger, white tail trigger, clown trigger, blue jaw trigger, dragon wrasse,red coris wrasse(juvinile), Blue tang, Sailfin Tang, fox face rabitfish.
FEEDING
How did you get this fish to eat at first? Frozen Mysis and brine shrimp, also ate small live damsels.
Does it eat dry food (flakes or pallets)? No
What’s the diet? mysis and silver sides, frozen
How much and how often do you feed? once a day - every 3 days. mysis shrimp and silversides
GROWTH RATE AND LIFE SPAN
What is the initial size of your fish and maximum size it reached? How fast did it grow (how much growth over a given period of time)? inital size was 2-3" with in 2 months this fish was about 6-8". @ 6 months this fish is about 9"
What do you think is the minimum tank size required for an adult specimen of this fish? I would say 75-100g, but would eventually out grow.
DISEASE AND TREATMENT
What disease has this fish had? How did you treat it, for how long? What's the effect of the treatment? a fugal and cryt parasite. treated with malachite green and copper.
BEHAVIOR
Does this fish change body color under any circumstances? yes
Does this fish dig the substrate often? not often, maybe only when establishing its cave territory
How active is this fish? Is this fish shy? shy when first introduced, swims around alot looking for food.
How territorial or aggressive is this fish? How does this fish interact with
tankmates? very quick to eat food falling into tank. loves to eat small damsels. has probably eaten 15 damsels, larger domino damsels are a challenge for him. he is in the tank with a small huma huma trigger (lessthan 2").
Did this fish ever jump out of the tank? No
How does this fish sleep? Hidden in cave area.
How does this fish interact with human? somewhat timid, not a single aggressive event so far.
SUMMARY
Your overall assessment of this species -
How sensitive is this fish to poor water quality on a scale of 1-5?
2 - quite tolerant, may survive accidental ammonia or nitrite spike
Do you think we should not keep this fish (for what reason)?
Would you recommend this fish to beginners? Yes, I think most beginners could care for this fish as long as they are eating before you buy one.
Is this fish best kept in mature/established (6 months or older) tank?
Any other recommendations/comments? I added this fish to a tank that was moved, it was cycling, ammonia was low at the time. He has survived a few ammonia spikes over the months.
Did you mail order this fish and would you recommend mail order this fish?
Local Fish Store, taken directly from whole seller shipment, Atlantis Aquarium. atlantisaquarium.net
COMPATIBILITY
What tankmates do you have with this fish?Is it a reef or FO tank? FO tank.
Niger Trigger, porcupine puffer, humu humu trigger, white tail trigger, clown trigger, blue jaw trigger, dragon wrasse,red coris wrasse(juvinile), Blue tang, Sailfin Tang, fox face rabitfish.
FEEDING
How did you get this fish to eat at first? Frozen Mysis and brine shrimp, also ate small live damsels.
Does it eat dry food (flakes or pallets)? No
What’s the diet? mysis and silver sides, frozen
How much and how often do you feed? once a day - every 3 days. mysis shrimp and silversides
GROWTH RATE AND LIFE SPAN
What is the initial size of your fish and maximum size it reached? How fast did it grow (how much growth over a given period of time)? inital size was 2-3" with in 2 months this fish was about 6-8". @ 6 months this fish is about 9"
What do you think is the minimum tank size required for an adult specimen of this fish? I would say 75-100g, but would eventually out grow.
DISEASE AND TREATMENT
What disease has this fish had? How did you treat it, for how long? What's the effect of the treatment? a fugal and cryt parasite. treated with malachite green and copper.
BEHAVIOR
Does this fish change body color under any circumstances? yes
Does this fish dig the substrate often? not often, maybe only when establishing its cave territory
How active is this fish? Is this fish shy? shy when first introduced, swims around alot looking for food.
How territorial or aggressive is this fish? How does this fish interact with
tankmates? very quick to eat food falling into tank. loves to eat small damsels. has probably eaten 15 damsels, larger domino damsels are a challenge for him. he is in the tank with a small huma huma trigger (lessthan 2").
Did this fish ever jump out of the tank? No
How does this fish sleep? Hidden in cave area.
How does this fish interact with human? somewhat timid, not a single aggressive event so far.
SUMMARY
Your overall assessment of this species -
How sensitive is this fish to poor water quality on a scale of 1-5?
2 - quite tolerant, may survive accidental ammonia or nitrite spike
Do you think we should not keep this fish (for what reason)?
Would you recommend this fish to beginners? Yes, I think most beginners could care for this fish as long as they are eating before you buy one.
Is this fish best kept in mature/established (6 months or older) tank?
Any other recommendations/comments? I added this fish to a tank that was moved, it was cycling, ammonia was low at the time. He has survived a few ammonia spikes over the months.
Captain Cayle
New member
I'm a "current" and "past" panther grouper supporter. I won't consider myself an owner because as anyone can attest that has had one, they actually own you.
My first I got when I had a 55 gal aquarium and the second I just got about 2 months ago when I got back into the hobby with my 72 gallon.
The new one is about 3" now. He's grown about an inch in the 2 months I've had him. He is in the tank with a false perc, a pink skunk clown, a 6 line wrasse, yellow tang (saved from a friend) and a bangai cardinal. He's headed for the larger predator tank when it's done being built.
They're great fish. Probably my favorite. I don't think I'll have a tank without one. Like others have stated, mine clearly recognizes me and follows me around. He lets me pet him. He eats from my hand. He's spoiled rotten because I'm a fishing charter captain and I work in a bait shop so he eats like a king. Fresh shrimp, fresh minnows, blue crab meat, stone crab meat. He'll kill you for fresh amberjack chunks. I feed him one small chunk of fresh amberjack and he'll sit at the top of the tank with his mouth out of the water waiting for the next piece.
He changes color once in a while, getting darker when he's upset or territorial which isn't often. He seems to get lighter when he sees me and wants fed. He has about 100 lbs of live rock (with more to come) and loves picking out his favorite holes.
He doesn't bother any of the other fish or shrimp I have in my tank. In fact, the only time I've ever had a problem was with my first panther. He ate my false perc but the little clownfish was on his last leg. He was over 8 years old from a friends tank and I had him for 2 years before he started swimming funny and the grouper sucked him down. They shared the tank for a year without issue but at the first sign of weakness, BAM, the clown was a goner.
My grouper could eat my current false perc, my pink skunk and my 6 line wrasse if he wanted to but he doesn't bother them and they don't bother him.
The only trait the current panther shows that is different from my other panther is that this one is a digger. I have one rock in the corner of my tank that he has dug a hole out from under in the substrate. I don't know why, he never goes in there, he just digs the hole. I fill in the hole, he digs it out.
My first I got when I had a 55 gal aquarium and the second I just got about 2 months ago when I got back into the hobby with my 72 gallon.
The new one is about 3" now. He's grown about an inch in the 2 months I've had him. He is in the tank with a false perc, a pink skunk clown, a 6 line wrasse, yellow tang (saved from a friend) and a bangai cardinal. He's headed for the larger predator tank when it's done being built.
They're great fish. Probably my favorite. I don't think I'll have a tank without one. Like others have stated, mine clearly recognizes me and follows me around. He lets me pet him. He eats from my hand. He's spoiled rotten because I'm a fishing charter captain and I work in a bait shop so he eats like a king. Fresh shrimp, fresh minnows, blue crab meat, stone crab meat. He'll kill you for fresh amberjack chunks. I feed him one small chunk of fresh amberjack and he'll sit at the top of the tank with his mouth out of the water waiting for the next piece.
He changes color once in a while, getting darker when he's upset or territorial which isn't often. He seems to get lighter when he sees me and wants fed. He has about 100 lbs of live rock (with more to come) and loves picking out his favorite holes.
He doesn't bother any of the other fish or shrimp I have in my tank. In fact, the only time I've ever had a problem was with my first panther. He ate my false perc but the little clownfish was on his last leg. He was over 8 years old from a friends tank and I had him for 2 years before he started swimming funny and the grouper sucked him down. They shared the tank for a year without issue but at the first sign of weakness, BAM, the clown was a goner.
My grouper could eat my current false perc, my pink skunk and my 6 line wrasse if he wanted to but he doesn't bother them and they don't bother him.
The only trait the current panther shows that is different from my other panther is that this one is a digger. I have one rock in the corner of my tank that he has dug a hole out from under in the substrate. I don't know why, he never goes in there, he just digs the hole. I fill in the hole, he digs it out.
fishyman12
New member
This fish died after about two months. It had parasites and gave up on me
jameskb
New member
I've had the privilege of owning two of these fish during my time in the hobby, I had to trade in the first when I moving necessitated taking my tank down for about a year and I traded in the second at my LFS when my Puffer died and I decided to become a reef aquarist instead. The second fish is now a fat and well fed happy resident of their display tank.
It always amused me how this fish would find one other in the aquarium to choose as its "buddy" and would follow this other fish around, laying on it whenever it got the chance. My panther groupers have both done this, the first with a lionfish, the second with a pufferfish. Both times the groupers would follow the other fish around staying close to it and when the "buddy" would lay on the tank substrate say after feeding, etc. the grouper would swim slowly up along side it then literally lay its body sideways leaning on the "buddy" fish. They always did this, they never fought with the other fish or nipped at them, they just wanted to cuddle
It always amused me how this fish would find one other in the aquarium to choose as its "buddy" and would follow this other fish around, laying on it whenever it got the chance. My panther groupers have both done this, the first with a lionfish, the second with a pufferfish. Both times the groupers would follow the other fish around staying close to it and when the "buddy" would lay on the tank substrate say after feeding, etc. the grouper would swim slowly up along side it then literally lay its body sideways leaning on the "buddy" fish. They always did this, they never fought with the other fish or nipped at them, they just wanted to cuddle
I had one for about a year, it was about 2 inches when I bought it for 30 dollars. It ate anything I would put in the tank. In the first month it ate two of its tank mates which were blue green Chromis, Then about a month later it killed my Dragon Wrasse, and It then stayed in the tank which was a 56 Gallon with a Picasso Trigger. It grew to about 5-6 inches when I got rid of it and it would eat about 8 rosies a day if I would let it. Beautiful fish though!
I've had a panther grouper in my tank for at least two years now. It has grown very quickly. Right now I'd say it's about 9-10 inches. He was housed with a large Volitan Lion. Up until recently, no real problems (about a 200 gallon tank).
I attempted to add a large blue tang to the mix, which, I assumed, went into hiding the day he entered the tank. The Grouper showed no interest when I released it. It appears as though the Grouper ate the tang, and later I found my Lion dried up behind the tank (very large lion). The local store said the grouper, after eating the tang, was probably harrassing the lion.
I hate to get rid of the grouper, but would like something else in the tank. I have quite a bit of live rock in the tank, but don't know what I could safely add that could hold its own with the grouper. I thought about a very large Yellow Tang, as I know they tend to be aggressive. Any suggestions?
I attempted to add a large blue tang to the mix, which, I assumed, went into hiding the day he entered the tank. The Grouper showed no interest when I released it. It appears as though the Grouper ate the tang, and later I found my Lion dried up behind the tank (very large lion). The local store said the grouper, after eating the tang, was probably harrassing the lion.
I hate to get rid of the grouper, but would like something else in the tank. I have quite a bit of live rock in the tank, but don't know what I could safely add that could hold its own with the grouper. I thought about a very large Yellow Tang, as I know they tend to be aggressive. Any suggestions?
wingless piglet
New member
I've panthers in my predators tanks and large fish tanks - nearly in each tank large enough for them. IMHO, 400 - 500l is a minimum-optimum. This fish, when young, will successfully set even in the 100 - 200l, but in a few months it will overgrow... It's not a pleasant sight - 20cm grouper in a 150l tank 
IMHO, this grouper is one of the most compatible with other fish - together with Variola louti, they're two of the most peaceful large groupers. Others, like Cephalopholis, Epinephelus etc - are enormously agressive, territorial and in a very short time will kill every other fish, even triggers and small sharks. Pogonoperca, Diploprion, Grammistes etc are not so "clever" and "sociable", and also may be very shy.
And, essentially, average size of tankmates must be corresponding - no less than about 1\2 of the length of a grouper for high-bodied fishes (e.g., Platax) and no less than 2\3 for others. In fact, no fish of such predatory origin can sucessfully coexist with small "reef" fishes - they're just do not consider them to be FISH :spin1: - nothing but feeders :eek1:
And one more moment - IMHO, the best way to settle successfully such territorial predator in a tank is to put him there in the last turn, after all other fishes had settled and recovered. This may be not so essential for concrete (calm and peaceful) specimen, but is very useful in general.
As for Cromileptis itself - it is one of the most thankful, peaceful and sociable fishes, becoming fully tame in a few months. It's very easy and nearly completely safe (! - can occasionally bite one's finger, but only occasionally!) to feed this fish by hand. Sometimes they like even to be palmed by the owner, or like to rest for a while on a palm.
IMHO, this grouper is one of the most compatible with other fish - together with Variola louti, they're two of the most peaceful large groupers. Others, like Cephalopholis, Epinephelus etc - are enormously agressive, territorial and in a very short time will kill every other fish, even triggers and small sharks. Pogonoperca, Diploprion, Grammistes etc are not so "clever" and "sociable", and also may be very shy.
And, essentially, average size of tankmates must be corresponding - no less than about 1\2 of the length of a grouper for high-bodied fishes (e.g., Platax) and no less than 2\3 for others. In fact, no fish of such predatory origin can sucessfully coexist with small "reef" fishes - they're just do not consider them to be FISH :spin1: - nothing but feeders :eek1:
And one more moment - IMHO, the best way to settle successfully such territorial predator in a tank is to put him there in the last turn, after all other fishes had settled and recovered. This may be not so essential for concrete (calm and peaceful) specimen, but is very useful in general.
As for Cromileptis itself - it is one of the most thankful, peaceful and sociable fishes, becoming fully tame in a few months. It's very easy and nearly completely safe (! - can occasionally bite one's finger, but only occasionally!) to feed this fish by hand. Sometimes they like even to be palmed by the owner, or like to rest for a while on a palm.
I am a new aquarist with a Panther Grouper. He is adorable and I never thought I would say that about a FISH. At this point I have far more questions than answers.
About us, My partner and I named the fish Floyd (band groupie, floating pig, etc) He has no tank mates at this time but are thinking of a Red Knobbed starfish and perhaps a Snowflake eel.
Is there a way to tell the sex of this fish?
will this fish hurt/eat Echinoderms (sea cucumbers, sea stars, urchins)?
FEEDING
How did you get this fish to eat at first? Feeding him is not really the issue, but how do you get him to NOT BEG?
If this fish only accepted live food, how did you wean it over to prepared food? He eats gold fish(live), Krill, silversides, mysis worms, and looks fondly at any small things that are used near his tank that might resemble food, so we put Nothing is his tank he is not to eat Does it eat dry food (flakes or pallets)? Haven't tried
What’s the diet? fed a variable diet every other day
How much and how often do you feed? we try to keep the amount to the equivalent of 3 or so goldfish. Grouper is about 7 inch long
How does this fish eat?
Does this fish eat any microalgae or macroalgae in your tank? If so what type of algae?
What is the longest lifespan and the maximum size of this fish in home aquarium and/or in the wild reported?
Does this fish dig the substrate often? He has been digging in the substrate. Mostly in his cave. Yesterday I had cleaned the tank and vacuumed the gravel there. I had to skootch him out of the way to be able to clean there.
Is the digging territorial? I have seen him digging at other times, in other parts of the tank, but he has made a special effort in his cave today.
How active is this fish? He is very active. Is this fish shy? rarely
Did this fish ever jump out of the tank? I certainly hope not.
How does this fish sleep? Apparently with his eyes open and while in motion.
How does this fish interact with human? Like a puppy. Darndest thing I have ever seen.
Any other interesting observation of this fish? He also does the coolest flounder impression. Swims across the bottom of the tank on his side from one end to the other. I have never seen a fish swim in so many directions. He swims backwards into his cave when he doesn't somersault into it. With this info, any ideas about the digging behavior?
REPRODUCTION
If you have a mated pair, how did you get them to pair up?
Any information of spawning in captivity?
SUMMARY
Your overall assessment of this species -
How sensitive is this fish to poor water quality on a scale of 1-5?
1 - very tolerant, may survive a cycle in a new tank
2 - quite tolerant, may survive accidental ammonia or nitrite spike
3 - not terribly sensitive to reasonable pH, salinity or temperature changes
4 - sensitive to any significant water chemistry changes, and may show stress during such changes
5 - very sensitive to water quality, may easily get stressed and get sick with any change in water chemistry
Do you think we should not keep this fish (for what reason)?
Would you recommend this fish to beginners?
Is this fish best kept in mature/established (6 months or older) tank?
Any other recommendations/comments?
About us, My partner and I named the fish Floyd (band groupie, floating pig, etc) He has no tank mates at this time but are thinking of a Red Knobbed starfish and perhaps a Snowflake eel.
Is there a way to tell the sex of this fish?
will this fish hurt/eat Echinoderms (sea cucumbers, sea stars, urchins)?
FEEDING
How did you get this fish to eat at first? Feeding him is not really the issue, but how do you get him to NOT BEG?
If this fish only accepted live food, how did you wean it over to prepared food? He eats gold fish(live), Krill, silversides, mysis worms, and looks fondly at any small things that are used near his tank that might resemble food, so we put Nothing is his tank he is not to eat Does it eat dry food (flakes or pallets)? Haven't tried
What’s the diet? fed a variable diet every other day
How much and how often do you feed? we try to keep the amount to the equivalent of 3 or so goldfish. Grouper is about 7 inch long
How does this fish eat?
Does this fish eat any microalgae or macroalgae in your tank? If so what type of algae?
What is the longest lifespan and the maximum size of this fish in home aquarium and/or in the wild reported?
Does this fish dig the substrate often? He has been digging in the substrate. Mostly in his cave. Yesterday I had cleaned the tank and vacuumed the gravel there. I had to skootch him out of the way to be able to clean there.
Is the digging territorial? I have seen him digging at other times, in other parts of the tank, but he has made a special effort in his cave today.
How active is this fish? He is very active. Is this fish shy? rarely
Did this fish ever jump out of the tank? I certainly hope not.
How does this fish sleep? Apparently with his eyes open and while in motion.
How does this fish interact with human? Like a puppy. Darndest thing I have ever seen.
Any other interesting observation of this fish? He also does the coolest flounder impression. Swims across the bottom of the tank on his side from one end to the other. I have never seen a fish swim in so many directions. He swims backwards into his cave when he doesn't somersault into it. With this info, any ideas about the digging behavior?
REPRODUCTION
If you have a mated pair, how did you get them to pair up?
Any information of spawning in captivity?
SUMMARY
Your overall assessment of this species -
How sensitive is this fish to poor water quality on a scale of 1-5?
1 - very tolerant, may survive a cycle in a new tank
2 - quite tolerant, may survive accidental ammonia or nitrite spike
3 - not terribly sensitive to reasonable pH, salinity or temperature changes
4 - sensitive to any significant water chemistry changes, and may show stress during such changes
5 - very sensitive to water quality, may easily get stressed and get sick with any change in water chemistry
Do you think we should not keep this fish (for what reason)?
Would you recommend this fish to beginners?
Is this fish best kept in mature/established (6 months or older) tank?
Any other recommendations/comments?
Last edited:
I am a new aquarist with a Panther Grouper. He is adorable and I never thought I would say that about a FISH. At this point I have far more questions than answers.
About us, My partner and I named the fish Floyd (band groupie, floating pig, etc) He has no tank mates at this time but are thinking of a Red Knobbed starfish and perhaps a Snowflake eel.
Is there a way to tell the sex of this fish?
will this fish hurt/eat Echinoderms (sea cucumbers, sea stars, urchins)?
FEEDING
How did you get this fish to eat at first? Feeding him is not really the issue, but how do you get him to NOT BEG?
If this fish only accepted live food, how did you wean it over to prepared food? He eats gold fish(live), Krill, silversides, mysis worms, and looks fondly at any small things that are used near his tank that might resemble food, so we put Nothing is his tank he is not to eat Does it eat dry food (flakes or pallets)? Haven't tried
What's the diet? fed a variable diet every other day
How much and how often do you feed? we try to keep the amount to the equivalent of 3 or so goldfish. Grouper is about 7 inch long
How does this fish eat?
What is the longest lifespan and the maximum size of this fish in home aquarium and/or in the wild reported?
Does this fish dig the substrate often? He has been digging in the substrate. Mostly in his cave. Yesterday I had cleaned the tank and vacuumed the gravel there. I had to skootch him out of the way to be able to clean there.
Is the digging territorial? I have seen him digging at other times, in other parts of the tank, but he has made a special effort in his cave today.
How active is this fish? He is very active. Is this fish shy? rarely
Did this fish ever jump out of the tank? I certainly hope not.
How does this fish sleep? Apparently with his eyes open and while in motion.
How does this fish interact with human? Like a puppy. Darndest thing I have ever seen.
Any other interesting observation of this fish? He also does the coolest flounder impression. Swims across the bottom of the tank on his side from one end to the other. I have never seen a fish swim in so many directions. He swims backwards into his cave when he doesn't somersault into it. With this info, any ideas about the digging behavior?
:hmm1:
About us, My partner and I named the fish Floyd (band groupie, floating pig, etc) He has no tank mates at this time but are thinking of a Red Knobbed starfish and perhaps a Snowflake eel.
Is there a way to tell the sex of this fish?
will this fish hurt/eat Echinoderms (sea cucumbers, sea stars, urchins)?
FEEDING
How did you get this fish to eat at first? Feeding him is not really the issue, but how do you get him to NOT BEG?
If this fish only accepted live food, how did you wean it over to prepared food? He eats gold fish(live), Krill, silversides, mysis worms, and looks fondly at any small things that are used near his tank that might resemble food, so we put Nothing is his tank he is not to eat Does it eat dry food (flakes or pallets)? Haven't tried
What's the diet? fed a variable diet every other day
How much and how often do you feed? we try to keep the amount to the equivalent of 3 or so goldfish. Grouper is about 7 inch long
How does this fish eat?
What is the longest lifespan and the maximum size of this fish in home aquarium and/or in the wild reported?
Does this fish dig the substrate often? He has been digging in the substrate. Mostly in his cave. Yesterday I had cleaned the tank and vacuumed the gravel there. I had to skootch him out of the way to be able to clean there.
Is the digging territorial? I have seen him digging at other times, in other parts of the tank, but he has made a special effort in his cave today.
How active is this fish? He is very active. Is this fish shy? rarely
Did this fish ever jump out of the tank? I certainly hope not.
How does this fish sleep? Apparently with his eyes open and while in motion.
How does this fish interact with human? Like a puppy. Darndest thing I have ever seen.
Any other interesting observation of this fish? He also does the coolest flounder impression. Swims across the bottom of the tank on his side from one end to the other. I have never seen a fish swim in so many directions. He swims backwards into his cave when he doesn't somersault into it. With this info, any ideas about the digging behavior?
:hmm1:
Jay Hester
New member
mine swims that way to he or she is about 2 inches long
