No real spawning behavior that ive seen. they follow each other around grazing on the rocks most of the day occasionally going there seperate ways for some time. The male is about 3 1/4" and the female around2 1/4". They both have grown around 1/2" over the time ive had them. They did not come as a pair but were both purchased at the same time and acclimated together. They fought for about a week then just stayed away from each other for a while. After about 2 months they started hanging out together. My 120 is pretty heavily stocked so im thinking this could be an issue with spawning as well. Im soon switching things over to a new tank and may leave the potters in the 120 by them selves for a while to see what happens.
Flame Angelfish Breeding attempt
- Thread starter fla2341
- Start date
No real spawning behavior that ive seen. they follow each other around grazing on the rocks most of the day occasionally going there seperate ways for some time. The male is about 3 1/4" and the female around2 1/4". They both have grown around 1/2" over the time ive had them. They did not come as a pair but were both purchased at the same time and acclimated together. They fought for about a week then just stayed away from each other for a while. After about 2 months they started hanging out together. My 120 is pretty heavily stocked so im thinking this could be an issue with spawning as well. Im soon switching things over to a new tank and may leave the potters in the 120 by them selves for a while to see what happens.
fla2341
New member
The pair have been spawning every night since the 6th and each spawn has been 100+ eggs until last night. Last night's spawn was well over 200 eggs. However I can't get an exact count as I SPILLED THEM. :hmm2: I was able to count one egg cluster of 90 and another of 30 before knocking it over. There was at least another large cluster equal to or greater then the 1st, but while moving the microscope to take a pic I knocked over the container of eggs.
I still haven't broken the 6 DPH mark. Each time I am able to bring more thru to this point using the exposure to sunlight in the gallon jar method. It's not many 10-15 as opposed to 2-3 but it's still some progress and it's regular. At the 3-6 DPH mark it should be noted that they are very ready to eat something. They no longer just "go with the flow" of the currents but swim and float. A few times I noticed two which looked like they were striking at something. In addition once they pass the 3 DPH mark the black pigmentation is much more visable making them more visable.
So to date things I'm doing:
1. Increased the amount of mysis being fed to the pair. Feed last time @ 8pm .
2. Dip out, not seive out the eggs.
3. Sterilize the display tank water and jar the morning of the spawn.
4. Add 2 Ltrs of sterilized tank water as well as enough nanno to lightly tint the water.
5. Use open rigid tubing to provide approx 1 bubble per second air. This provides a slow current and keeps them in suspension and off the bottom.
6. Place jar in sunlight window so it gets 4-5 hrs direct sunlight.
Results: More make it thru to the 6 DPH mark.
I still haven't broken the 6 DPH mark. Each time I am able to bring more thru to this point using the exposure to sunlight in the gallon jar method. It's not many 10-15 as opposed to 2-3 but it's still some progress and it's regular. At the 3-6 DPH mark it should be noted that they are very ready to eat something. They no longer just "go with the flow" of the currents but swim and float. A few times I noticed two which looked like they were striking at something. In addition once they pass the 3 DPH mark the black pigmentation is much more visable making them more visable.
So to date things I'm doing:
1. Increased the amount of mysis being fed to the pair. Feed last time @ 8pm .
2. Dip out, not seive out the eggs.
3. Sterilize the display tank water and jar the morning of the spawn.
4. Add 2 Ltrs of sterilized tank water as well as enough nanno to lightly tint the water.
5. Use open rigid tubing to provide approx 1 bubble per second air. This provides a slow current and keeps them in suspension and off the bottom.
6. Place jar in sunlight window so it gets 4-5 hrs direct sunlight.
Results: More make it thru to the 6 DPH mark.
Blueline12
Member
Wow. This is excellent. I wish you the best of luck with your work.
Luis A M
Premium Member
I am following your progress with great interest!:thumbsup:
Check: http://www.mbisite.org/Forums/tm.aspx?&m=52332&mpage=1
for mine and others work with pelagic spawners.
Check: http://www.mbisite.org/Forums/tm.aspx?&m=52332&mpage=1
for mine and others work with pelagic spawners.
fla2341
New member
Blueline12: Thank you. Stay tuned
Luis A M: Luis, thanks - I was hoping you would chime in. I've been reading about your and others progress for some time - that's what gave me inspiration, encouragement and some ideas to try. Got any new ones or advice? I'm going to check the mbi site later today after I get some sleep. I love that the Liopropoma carmabi has been cracked. Can the tangs (CaptCrash) be far behind?:rollface:
Luis A M: Luis, thanks - I was hoping you would chime in. I've been reading about your and others progress for some time - that's what gave me inspiration, encouragement and some ideas to try. Got any new ones or advice? I'm going to check the mbi site later today after I get some sleep. I love that the Liopropoma carmabi has been cracked. Can the tangs (CaptCrash) be far behind?:rollface:
fla2341
New member
videos of head standing behaviour
videos of head standing behaviour
These are two short videos of the head standing behaviour. They are short due to the fact that they don't stay still long enough. They move out of the camera area too quickly, or by the time you've focused they've jetted off. You can see the lateral compression in the 5-6 DPH video as well as the pigmentation. I hope these help those who have not seen this in person to better understand what's being talked about.
video of a 2 DPH prolarva:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqGavPjawKw&feature=youtu.be
video this time of a 5-6 DPH larval fish:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJfeoC3WU3I&feature=channel&list=UL
videos of head standing behaviour
These are two short videos of the head standing behaviour. They are short due to the fact that they don't stay still long enough. They move out of the camera area too quickly, or by the time you've focused they've jetted off. You can see the lateral compression in the 5-6 DPH video as well as the pigmentation. I hope these help those who have not seen this in person to better understand what's being talked about.
video of a 2 DPH prolarva:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqGavPjawKw&feature=youtu.be
video this time of a 5-6 DPH larval fish:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJfeoC3WU3I&feature=channel&list=UL
fla2341
New member
Eating?
Eating?
Please take a look at these photos. Does this look like their feeding? This is a 6 DPH Live Larval fish I just pulled out. The only food I can think of which is in there is ciliates, detritus and algae of the proper size. I've not added anything else and most of the water was boiled prior to addition of the eggs and algae water.
Eating?
Please take a look at these photos. Does this look like their feeding? This is a 6 DPH Live Larval fish I just pulled out. The only food I can think of which is in there is ciliates, detritus and algae of the proper size. I've not added anything else and most of the water was boiled prior to addition of the eggs and algae water.
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fla2341
New member
Bubble rate video
Bubble rate video
For those interested this video shows the bubble/flow rate in the larval fish jars. You can make out some larva floating/moving in the current.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZvo1Va9Kfc&feature=youtu.be
Bubble rate video
For those interested this video shows the bubble/flow rate in the larval fish jars. You can make out some larva floating/moving in the current.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZvo1Va9Kfc&feature=youtu.be
CaptCrash
New member
No real new progress, by the end of this week/early next week I will be offering a couple of different copepod species to my next batch larvae. Then hopefully within the next few weeks some ciliates. The ciliates look promising, though at the moment the University that is supplying them is having some issues with their culture. So Im having to wait.
I have been learning to use a microscope and splice pictures together taken with it, so that has been a bit of a learning curve.
Ill keep the thread at mbisite.org updated with progress.
Luis A M
Premium Member
I can´t say this is not an empty gut.Sometimes you see yolk material being passed thru the gut.But the intersting thing is that the area looks bluish in your pics.see the pics of my older larvae where also a shiny blue area is seen on the sides.I imagined it was some reflection of iridiscent scales,only that larvae don´t have scales:worried:
And this doesn´t show in Baensch larval pictures either.
fla2341
New member
CaptCrash: I'll keep looking. What copepods? Good luck
Luis A M: Ever been fishing? The blueish/white reminds me of the stomach wall membrane of larger fish I cought. I think that could be what we're seeing.
I just took these videos. The 1st one shows the size of the mouth gape and respiration. The 2nd shows what's floating in the water. In the mouth gape video the larva is about 2.5 mm TL showing about 2 mm in view. The mouth gape apears to be 100 microns or so from this baseline estimation. This is a 4 DPH larval fish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcSi0WYBOKU&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFMnFuWB8rs&feature=youtu.be
Luis A M: Ever been fishing? The blueish/white reminds me of the stomach wall membrane of larger fish I cought. I think that could be what we're seeing.
I just took these videos. The 1st one shows the size of the mouth gape and respiration. The 2nd shows what's floating in the water. In the mouth gape video the larva is about 2.5 mm TL showing about 2 mm in view. The mouth gape apears to be 100 microns or so from this baseline estimation. This is a 4 DPH larval fish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcSi0WYBOKU&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFMnFuWB8rs&feature=youtu.be
fla2341
New member
The pH dropped from 8.3 to 7.6 over night. The ammonia rose to .25 as well even with Amquel. I went from 35-40 larval fish to 26. They were lethargic and just floating around. I started a 50% water change taking over 3 hrs to drip in the replacement water so the values didn't change immediately and shock the larval fish. I used the pair's tank water to do so. I noticed that the larva are now as actively swimming around as they were yesterday. I performed a 10% water change yesterday but that was obviously not enough.
In two photos below I show a 1" piece of PVC pipe, a collar made from a 1" T by cutting off one side and 120 micron fabric. I placed this into the jar and insert a 1/4" rigid acrylic tubing and air line to siphon and remove 1 ltr of old water.
Larval culture note: If using this method perform at least a 50% slow water change every day. The Nanno was thick in the jar and could have experienced a bloom. Also of note is the depth of water. They do much better with at least 5" of water colum and a really slow current.
Thoughts: The continued culturing of these larval fish requires a better method to control Ammonia and buffer/stablize pH( larger volumn, built in buffering capacity and incorporation of biological filtration). Small pH flux happens from night to day but the pH flux from last night was severe.
I established a 10 gallon tank 5 days ago in the event it is needed. I used 2 lbs of the argonite sand from the parents tank as well as the parents tank water - not boiled. I also added some of the nanno to lightly tint the water. I have 1 rigid air line bubbling in the darker corner for circulation. The sand has bristle worms - good for clean up - and nothing more. I planed on using this for larval rearing once I can get them passed the 10 day mark and they are eating.
I just looked over at the jar and saw three of them swimming horizontally, stopping mid water, lurch forward, then start swimming again to repeat the same thing. In every other fish I've ever reared this was a sign they were eating. Just what their eating I don't have a definitive answer - yet. However after viewing this I removed 23 and took the following 3 other photos which show 2 with different light exposures where you can see a brown spot in the stomach. Non of the other 21 sampled showed this spot although 2 others had markedly more of the irridecent blue occluding the stomach area.
In two photos below I show a 1" piece of PVC pipe, a collar made from a 1" T by cutting off one side and 120 micron fabric. I placed this into the jar and insert a 1/4" rigid acrylic tubing and air line to siphon and remove 1 ltr of old water.
Larval culture note: If using this method perform at least a 50% slow water change every day. The Nanno was thick in the jar and could have experienced a bloom. Also of note is the depth of water. They do much better with at least 5" of water colum and a really slow current.
Thoughts: The continued culturing of these larval fish requires a better method to control Ammonia and buffer/stablize pH( larger volumn, built in buffering capacity and incorporation of biological filtration). Small pH flux happens from night to day but the pH flux from last night was severe.
I established a 10 gallon tank 5 days ago in the event it is needed. I used 2 lbs of the argonite sand from the parents tank as well as the parents tank water - not boiled. I also added some of the nanno to lightly tint the water. I have 1 rigid air line bubbling in the darker corner for circulation. The sand has bristle worms - good for clean up - and nothing more. I planed on using this for larval rearing once I can get them passed the 10 day mark and they are eating.
I just looked over at the jar and saw three of them swimming horizontally, stopping mid water, lurch forward, then start swimming again to repeat the same thing. In every other fish I've ever reared this was a sign they were eating. Just what their eating I don't have a definitive answer - yet. However after viewing this I removed 23 and took the following 3 other photos which show 2 with different light exposures where you can see a brown spot in the stomach. Non of the other 21 sampled showed this spot although 2 others had markedly more of the irridecent blue occluding the stomach area.
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Clownfishfan
New member
Good pictures!
Sport507
~Just a Farm Boy~
I think you are right.
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