flasher wrasse id

[captnHaddock]

Hi!

took a vid for id

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo8PQMKvfSs


this fish was bought at lfs and sold as carpenter flasher.
I opt for a dot-and-dash flasher wrasse (Paracheilinus lineopunctatus). I would like your thoughts on that.

also more important : male or female or sub male?
I think lfs got another one sightly bigger and more purple. I might go get it.

 

[captnHaddock]

better video maybe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNuX15AZkgQ

 

[Fishfirst]

P. cyaneus is my guess... but hard to tell on the video.... other suspects could be P. filimentosus

 

[eatbreakfast]

Its very hard to tell species for certain. It is clearly a female transitioning to male because it is beginning to develop filaments and it is beginning to get faint outlines of color on its anal and caudal fins.

Based on the shape of the caudal fin and the faint margin developing it is either a lineopunctatus or a carpenters. You, however have it nailed down to one of those 2 species anyway. Once it matures a little more fully a more positive id will be possible.

 

[captnHaddock]

Its very hard to tell species for certain. It is clearly a female transitioning to male because it is beginning to develop filaments and it is beginning to get faint outlines of color on its anal and caudal fins

is that started transformation is reversible? What will happen if I introduce a more developped male?

 

[Fishfirst]

Now that I have a bigger screen to look at the video it appears to be P. lineopunctatus.

 

[evolved]

This is a tough one with these videos.

How many dorsal filaments does it have? I think I only see one, but I am not certain.

P. cyaneus is my guess... but hard to tell on the video.... other suspects could be P. filimentosus

No; it can't be either of those. The tail is rounded.

also more important : male or female or sub male?

It's on that female/sub-male boarderline. It is certainly not a terminal male.

Its very hard to tell species for certain. It is clearly a female transitioning to male because it is beginning to develop filaments and it is beginning to get faint outlines of color on its anal and caudal fins.

Based on the shape of the caudal fin and the faint margin developing it is either a lineopunctatus or a carpenters. You, however have it nailed down to one of those 2 species anyway. Once it matures a little more fully a more positive id will be possible.

I mostly agree with this, yes. Although if the one dorsal filament I think I see is correct, than I don't believe it's lineopuntatus.

is that started transformation is reversible? What will happen if I introduce a more developped male?

What size is the tank? A reversal from sub-male back to female is technically possible, but not common.
Adding a male of a different species would likely be fine, but adding a male the the same species isn't something I would do.

 

[aquaph8]

I could've swore I saw two filiments, maybe not though.

 

[evolved]

I could've swore I saw two filiments, maybe not though.

Maybe in the second video; I couldn't tell. In the first video I can only make out one.

 

[captnHaddock]

thanks guys!
really informative thread.
I should have wait for your comments... I introduced what I think is a more developped male of the same species. One thing that makes me hesitate is that the anal fin of that second wrasse is less rounded with a more pointed end. It is more pinkish with blue on fins. It is kind of flashing on the first wrasse you saw on the video

hang on, I'm trying to take peacture right now.

they are in a 60g cube.

Evolved, I saw your thought about putting flasher into aquarium cubes after having introduced them. Make sense and I don't know what to do about this.

 

[Fishfirst]

This is a tough one with these videos.

How many dorsal filaments does it have? I think I only see one, but I am not certain.


No; it can't be either of those. The tail is rounded.


It's on that female/sub-male boarderline. It is certainly not a terminal male.


I mostly agree with this, yes. Although if the one dorsal filament I think I see is correct, than I don't believe it's lineopuntatus.


What size is the tank? A reversal from sub-male back to female is technically possible, but not common.
Adding a male of a different species would likely be fine, but adding a male the the same species isn't something I would do.

Exactly which is why when I got on a bigger screen I corrected my answer.

 

[evolved]

Exactly which is why when I got on a bigger screen I corrected my answer.

Understood; I was only trying to provide reason to someone else who might not know.
It was not a matter of pointing out a fault! :rollface:

 

[captnHaddock]

Tonight around 16 pm, I came home and the light was off for some electrical reason. After re-start, there was a sudden excitement between the two wrasses. Sorry for the horrible picture with the flash, but clear enough for identification. It was incredible. I believe it is two male...

the fish that was in the video, in display

the fish that was in the video is always at the right while the male in terminal coloration is at the left

male terminal coloration

 

[aquaph8]

Lots of filaments! That narrows it down.

 

[YKTea]

Now that is very obviously P. lineopunctatus.

 

[captnHaddock]

thanks
What are the chance that they form a pair? is it 2 males?

 

[YKTea]

thanks
What are the chance that they form a pair? is it 2 males?

well, both have filaments and the smaller one is starting to show male characteristics, with the bigger one developing more quickly than the other. the one which is more male looking now will probably go on and develop into a terminal phased male (it isn't yet, but it's almost there)

this will mean more pressure toward the other developing male, and this can result in a few things. the sub-male may be forced to halt its change process and remain like that, or it may also continue to develop together into a terminal phased male and you may end up with two big males. on rare occasions, reverse sex change can occur and that sub-male may go back to being female.

but expect the bigger one to do a lot of flashing and displaying in the mean time. in general flashers don't really seek to destroy opposing males. but in some cases persistent aggression via flashing and chasing will result in the other one hiding more often and not coming out to feed as much. <-- worst case scenario.

maybe hunter can chime in more or correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[evolved]

Lemon pretty much has it, yes.

The "terminal" isn't there yet. Definitely two males at this point; you are seeing them displaying at each other and attempting to establish a hierarchy.

The chances of getting a female out of one at this point is nearly zero, I'm afraid.