Floridiot's 157 Nano build

[Floridiot]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13801015#post13801015 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gasman059
any pics- sure they are not diatoms?
Anyways hard issue to take care off , the best known ways to treat dinos are to reduce nutrients and to raise pH.

HTH

I believe the only way to know for sure is by looking at them under a microscope, but due to the fact that they've killed 5 of my 12 mexican turbos, I believe it is dinos. I also have another one of my remaining 7 turbos which seems paralyzed. He's still alive, as I see him retract when I pick him up, but he has not moved in 24 hours. I will take some pictures when they come back in force before I start the next lights out period. Also, I believe rowa removes silicates too? This would cause me to believe that it definitely is not diatoms.

I am however going to do one thing different during the first 4 day lights-out period. I'm going to run the rowa for the first three days. On the fourth day, I'm going to remove the rowa and replace it with cuprisorb. Since the rowa is an iron based product, I believe it may be contributing to the spread of the dinos. Some of the posters on RC have also mentioned they believe iron is a contributing factor. I did not notice the dinos taking off until I started using the rowaphos.

I've already hooked up a hose to the skimmer's air intake which draws in air from outside the house. I've also cut back on fish feeding. I haven't even started coral feeding, so I can't cut back on that at all. I've read several threads here on these plus Randy's dino/pH article. I will try a couple of four day lights-out periods, as well as a few other ideas like raising the alk very high (16 dkh), siphoning daily, and maybe even getting a UV sterilizer (Sanjay said this worked for him). I'm going to give it until about February 1st, at which time I'll be taking drastic measures if these are not gone.

Here are a few of the articles I've been reading:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...age=25&highlight=dinoflagellates&pagenumber=1

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1188089&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1300678&highlight=dinoflagellates

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php

Since I don't have much in the way of corals to lose at this point, I'm not going to kill myself in an attempt to eradicate these like many others have. It seems like a losing battle. I'd rather nuke everything and start from scratch.

 

[jnb]

Sorry to hear about this. Don't know what else to say - you have more experience at this reefing - when I first set my tank up, it went thru lots of stages of negative stuff, algaes, brown flatworms, etc - and one by one it cleared over time - you have lots of newish rock, sand, etc. But I guess what I am hearing dino is evil and difficult to get rid of instead on good husbandry (flow, not overfeeding, good ca,mg,alk, etc). and time.

Your tank is for sure does not have much life in it fish-wise, corals etc so it is not like it is overloaded (unless you went crazy since I saw it)

Anyway, good luck.

 

[Floridiot]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13801173#post13801173 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnb

Your tank is for sure does not have much life in it fish-wise, corals etc so it is not like it is overloaded (unless you went crazy since I saw it)

Anyway, good luck.

Nope. It's exactly the same as when you saw it.

 

[gasman059]

Updates time!
BTW do u still have the pendant?

 

[gasman059]

Updates time!
BTW do u still have the pendant?

 

[Floridiot]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13857582#post13857582 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gasman059
Updates time!
BTW do u still have the pendant?

Pendant has been sold. Shipped out last week. I only ended up losing $55 on the whole transaction after paypal fees, so I was pretty happy about that. I must say that the reflector in the Lumenarc is far superior to the reflector in the Sfiligoi. I'll probably eventually replace the Iwasaki 175 with a 400W Radium/HQI ballast combo like Rogger is using. For now, I'm just fighting dinos. Here's a picture of how the tank looks today:

This is the second blackout period which started last night after the lights went out. The first one only lasted 3 days. This one will last four. I've also removed the rowaphos and added cuprisorb to absorb as much of the iron out of the water as possible. From what I've been reading, I have about a 50/50 shot of beating the dinos without nuking the tank. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. This fight will go no longer than Jan/Feb before the tank gets nuked. I'm hoping to get lucky.

 

[jnb]

- how is it going?

 

[Floridiot]

I've brought the lighting back up to 8 hours a day and things are doing OK. The SPS really didn't like the four days of no light, but they are starting to regain their color. Some darkened up and others turned very pale during the four day blackout.

As of right now, I do not see any signs of the dinos. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for the best. On a bright note, the coralline has started to spread everywhere on the dead rock. I lost another two more mexican turbo snails, so I may need to replenish my stock. other than that, I'm in a holding pattern while I wait to see if the dinos are really gone.

 

[gasman059]

good going !

 

[jnb]

How is it going?

 

[thorton]

I just jumped on the ship here. but, the question I have seen answered is why are u losing the snails? u lost 4 in no time I have like 10 for years..... dumb queston but, just curious.

 

[matt144]

Your setup looks great, good luck

 

[newmoon]

Very sorry to hear that, and wish you the best!

Are you sure these are Dinos, though? Dinos will re appear again REALLY fast as soon as you "clean" the sand. In minutes. And they will disappear/disintegrate completely if you grab them or stir the sand.

I tried everything when I had them, you name it, I tried. You don't eliminate them leaving the tank with lights out, they will re appear again. It will be only a temporary relief. I have found that to eliminate dinos , you have to keep your Magnesium high, your PH around 8.6, skim a LOT(WET skimming!) and use lots of carbon(change every week). IME, They feed on high nutrients AND trace elements, so the trick here is to starve them from nutrients. DO NOT change water, or add anything other than Kalkwasser during this battle.
Make a refugium, and trow some macroalgae in there, and let the lights on 24/7. The bigger the refugium, the better/faster results. That will keep your PH higher, and you will have the algae competing for nutrients. You can use it also to "discard" any excessive dinos that will "migrate" to the refugium. Once you see them packed in there, shut the refugium down, clean everything away and connect it again. This "discard" method also works if you simply use a sand only refugium with lights 24/7 and a VERY thin layer of sand. I did this in the past with success.
Some people had reported success with UV and DE filters, which I used before, but I ain't sure how much these really affected my dinoflagellates problem, but I can say it's worth a try, principally if you have access to them.

Also, don't let it get hold in the main tank. As soon as you see them covering the sand bed/rocks, blow them way with a turkey baster(they will migrate to your "undisturbed" refugium).

It can be a hard battle and take a little extra dedication from your part, but you WILL win in the end. The first time I had a problem with it, it took me 4 months to get rid of it, but I didn't know too much about them back in the days. The second time, it took me a month. There's many kinds of Dino's, some are lethal to fish/invertebrates if eaten and some can release toxins in the water that will inhibit coral growth, sometimes kill them


Good luck!

 

[Floridiot]

Newmoon, Thanks for the advice.

These definitely are dinos. They've killed all my snails but one. The last lights out period kept them away for about 6 weeks. The last snail to die (last week sometime) was hidden in the rocks somewhere which caused a sudden high nutrient load. The mexican turbos are quite large and they do pollute the tank when they die. I noticed a patch of cyano growing. I then decided it is time for a water change, which followed by a sudden plague of dinos again.

I was just about to declare victory, and now they are back. My corals have just regained most all of their color, and now I can see I'm probably going to have to torture them again with another 4 day lights out period. Hopefully this time will be it. I'm going to wait a full 4 months before doing my next WC. I will strictly use the rowaphos, carbon, and wet skimming for nutrient control until then.

I've been extremely busy lately, and haven't been paying too much time here. I'll post another update in a few weeks.

 

[jnb]

glad to see you hangin in there - where do you buy your co2 locally?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14237201#post14237201 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Floridiot
Newmoon, Thanks for the advice.

These definitely are dinos. They've killed all my snails but one. The last lights out period kept them away for about 6 weeks. The last snail to die (last week sometime) was hidden in the rocks somewhere which caused a sudden high nutrient load. The mexican turbos are quite large and they do pollute the tank when they die. I noticed a patch of cyano growing. I then decided it is time for a water change, which followed by a sudden plague of dinos again.

I was just about to declare victory, and now they are back. My corals have just regained most all of their color, and now I can see I'm probably going to have to torture them again with another 4 day lights out period. Hopefully this time will be it. I'm going to wait a full 4 months before doing my next WC. I will strictly use the rowaphos, carbon, and wet skimming for nutrient control until then.

I've been extremely busy lately, and haven't been paying too much time here. I'll post another update in a few weeks.

 

[Floridiot]

I get my gas from Praxair which is just north of Sample on Powerline road.

 

[gasman059]

Broward Nelson fountain service. HTH

 

[Floridiot]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14241217#post14241217 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gasman059
Broward Nelson fountain service. HTH

Broward Nelson is where I used to go for Beermix gas (Nitrogen/CO2 mix). It is a requirement for Guinness. It is a bit far from the area where jnb & I live though.

 

[jnb]

for co2 , when you tank your tank in - how long does it take to fill er up and get back in car - do you have to wait for it to cool down or anything? I just got a geo reactor and will be setting it up soon - I am new to ca reactors. How much does it cost to fill a 10 pound tank?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14243431#post14243431 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Floridiot
Broward Nelson is where I used to go for Beermix gas (Nitrogen/CO2 mix). It is a requirement for Guinness. It is a bit far from the area where jnb & I live though.

 

[LarryV]

Steve, why dont you go to the fire extinguisher place just south of 10th st and one block east of Dixie to get yours filled. Real conveniant. Have to stop by soon corals growing like crazy.

Larry