for QT experts - need a nod from you

[xaflatoonx]

Setting up a QT to get my first fish. While my tank cycles I will be getting the fish ready as well in the mean time. Atleast that's the plan.

So please give a yay or nay on what i think the process is based on research.

Equipment:
36 Gallon tank (using the last tank i had before i upgraded)
heater - temp at 75 degrees
HOB filter (with a white filter cartridge in it - new)
thermometer
Ammonia alert that sticks to the wall
PVC pipes
Pump with airstone at end for oxygenation

Process:
1. Fill up tank with saltwater water (salinity 1.020). This is to be gradually increased during the QT process to match my DT of 1.025
2. set up the equipment above
3. put fish in QT using drip acclimation method.
4. Day 2 - use Hikari Usa AHK73254 Prazipro to prevent/cure for any flukes/worms.
5. Day 7 - do 50% water change
6. Day 8 - use Seachem Cupramine Copper to prevent/cure for any ich, marine velvet, external parasites etc.
7. Keep feeding/observing for a total of 2-4 weeks.

IF all good - transfer to DT using a NEW net.


What do you guys think?

 

[wooden_reefer]

"Ammonia alert that sticks to the wall"

Some people say "oil level low" light in a car is to tell you that the engine has been damaged a bit at least. Ammonia alert is about the same kind of thing.

Far better is to make relatively sure, as sure as possible, that there will never be ammonia in QT or any T.

Since you know you have to cycle for the DT, do you think you need to cycle for QT?

My QT will not have ammonia, unless when I have to use a drug that harms nitrification bacteria. Such a drug is almost always an antibiotic to treat external bacterial infection. If there is no external bacterial infection during QT, I will have no ammonia for the entire duration of QT, which usually is 12 weeks or longer.

 

[ca1ore]

A handful of observations:

1. Absent sourcing some properly seeded media from an established tank, you will be running an uncycled QT. This is possible, but requires constant monitoring of ammonia and pretty regular water changes. It also rather precludes heavy feeding of the fish (a big benefit of QT).

2. Avoid drip acclimation of any kind by setting the QT salinity to match water in incoming bag (likely less than 1.020; more like 1.017).

3. Let fish settle in and eating before doing any meds.

4. Four week QT at a minimum: 8-12 preferred.

 

[Nina51]

agree with #2 above but be sure to float the bag to match temp as well.

 

[pdiehm]

I'm planning on having a sponge filter sitting in the sump that will be used when I need to QT. If I understand right, it'll be seeded with beneficial bacteria. when done with QT, it goes back to the sump.

Is that something that would be ok? I really don't have the room for a permanent QT to be up and running.

 

[W1ngz]

when done with QT, it goes back to the sump.

Is that something that would be ok? I really don't have the room for a permanent QT to be up and running.

Definitely not OK. If the QT is infected, even with a few remnants or persistent bacteria or parasites, you're putting them in the display.

Use a new one that you placed in the sump 3-4 weeks prior.

 

[danil]

A handful of observations:

1. Absent sourcing some properly seeded media from an established tank, you will be running an uncycled QT. This is possible, but requires constant monitoring of ammonia and pretty regular water changes. It also rather precludes heavy feeding of the fish (a big benefit of QT).

2. Avoid drip acclimation of any kind by setting the QT salinity to match water in incoming bag (likely less than 1.020; more like 1.017).

3. Let fish settle in and eating before doing any meds.

4. Four week QT at a minimum: 8-12 preferred.

+1 for "perfect" happy path scenario.
In real life... well it's depends where you'll get your fish from. I've quarantined many fish in the past. At some point I've been running four QT tanks!
If you are not sure in your source - it's better to start medication asap. Few baths during transition to your QT then copper with prazipro. If you're scare to run both at once - leave prazi for later. Velvet will kill your fish in few days and with flukes they'll be 'OK" for weeks. Many people will say Prazi is totally "safe".. I'm disagree with this statement. Something is not "right" about it. I lost more fish to Prazi then to Copper (with separate treatment). Don't forget to cover your QT tank. They will try to jump out. It's OK to quarantine more then one fish in the same tank just stay reasonable with sizes. Put your QT tank away from main display. Better have it in garage or another room be patient... don't get big fish like tangs without checking them how good (and what) they are eating. They could be very picky so having all kind of foods is a big plus.
GL

 

[wooden_reefer]

I'm planning on having a sponge filter sitting in the sump that will be used when I need to QT. If I understand right, it'll be seeded with beneficial bacteria. when done with QT, it goes back to the sump.

Is that something that would be ok? I really don't have the room for a permanent QT to be up and running.

What do you mean by seeded?

How many bacteria will be on the sponge just by leaving it in the sump of DT even for weeks?

Will such sponge be enough to support the fish in QT?

How would you know for sure?

 

[ca1ore]

+1 for "perfect" happy path scenario.
In real life... well it's depends where you'll get your fish from. I've quarantined many fish in the past. At some point I've been running four QT tanks!
If you are not sure in your source - it's better to start medication asap.

I'd argue that if you are unsure, or unaware, of your source - find another source! OK, if a fish comes in with clear signs of disease, then starting meds right away may be warranted; though perhaps that would be a fish left un-bought.

 

[ca1ore]

What do you mean by seeded?

How many bacteria will be on the sponge just by leaving it in the sump of DT even for weeks?

Will such sponge be enough to support the fish in QT?

How would you know for sure?

Ground already covered! Seeding bio-media is a perfectly acceptable method for 'cycling' a typical QT. Been doing it for over a decade and have yet to have it fail. Requires some diligence - but what doesn't in this hobby!

 

[pdiehm]

Definitely not OK. If the QT is infected, even with a few remnants or persistent bacteria or parasites, you're putting them in the display.

Use a new one that you placed in the sump 3-4 weeks prior.

My plan is to do the tank transfer method for 12 days, then go to the QT tank for 30 days, where I'll be treating with 2 rounds of a medicine called prazi or something of that ilk.

If I'm treating the QT tank would that also kill any parasites or bacteria that may get to the sponge filter?

In theory, that would still make the sponge filter viable for storage in the sump when not in use would it not?

 

[formsix]

In theory, that would still make the sponge filter viable for storage in the sump when not in use would it not?

In theory, if you knew exactly what you were killing and that you killed it, then yes. Oh, and if you were certain that none of the treatment remained in the filter, because you don't want most of that stuff getting into your DT.

So wayyyyy too many assumptions and unknowns there to be worth the risk. Don't ever put anything from your QT into the DT except the critters at the end of their stay

 

[formsix]

My plan is to do the tank transfer method for 12 days, then go to the QT tank for 30 days, where I'll be treating with 2 rounds of a medicine called prazi or something of that ilk.

Oh, and I think this is a perfect plan, and exactly what I do. Tank transfer on everyone, and prazi on fish that are known to be wormy or have stringy white poop. After reading a ton I decided not to dose prazi on all fish, but I decide on a case by case basis after the TT is done.

 

[igot2gats]

2. Avoid drip acclimation of any kind by setting the QT salinity to match water in incoming bag (likely less than 1.020; more like 1.017).

What's wrong with drip acclimation?

Just curious, as I'm setting up a QT as well.

 

[ca1ore]

Although it may be necessary in some cases, it's simply unnecessary stress on the animal if you plan to QT. Fish shipped a long way can be affected by ammonia, for example.

 

[tmz]

Equipment:
36 Gallon tank (using the last tank i had before i upgraded)
heater - temp at 75 degrees
HOB filter (with a white filter cartridge in it - new)
thermometer
Ammonia alert that sticks to the wall

OK but I like to test it with a Salifert test
PVC pipes
Pump with airstone at end for oxygenation

A bubble up sponge filter is a nice addition , some fish like to peck at food that is drawn in there.Mandarins for example

Process:
1. Fill up tank with saltwater water (salinity 1.020). This is to be gradually increased during the QT process to match my DT of 1.025

OK but 1.015 to 1.017 is probably a better match to most bag water for shipped fish
2. set up the equipment above
3. put fish in QT using drip acclimation method.

Not necessary if the tank water temp matches the bag water and if the salinity of the tank water is lower than or equal to the bag water. Drip acclimation leaves the fish in the bag water while the bag water pH is rising as CO2 blows off into the air.This results in the ammonia in the bag shifting it's proprtion of NH4( less toxic ammonium) to more toxic NH3( ammonia) potentially exposing the fish to ammonia toxicitiy.

4. Day 2 - use Hikari Usa AHK73254 Prazipro to prevent/cure for any flukes/worms.

I prefer to wait on prazi pro until later or not at all if there are no symptoms of flukes or intestinal problems.
5. Day 7 - do 50% water change
6. Day 8 - use Seachem Cupramine Copper to prevent/cure for any ich, marine velvet, external parasites etc.

I prefer not to dose copper as a preventative. The tank transfer method as a preventative for ich followed by qt in a cylced tank is my preference
7. Keep feeding/observing for a total of 2-4 weeks.

This thread of mine describes the acclimation , qt and acclimation methods I've been using for a long time with success; it may be of interest:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2185929&highlight=fish+acclimation+and+quarantine

 

[tmz]

What's wrong with drip acclimation?


Not necessary if the tank water temp matches the bag water and if the salinity of the tank water is lower than or equal to the bag water. Drip acclimation leaves the fish in the bag water while the bag water pH is rising as CO2 blows off into the air.This results in the ammonia in the bag shifting it's proportion of NH4( less toxic ammonium) to more toxic NH3( ammonia) potentially exposing the fish to ammonia toxicity.

 

[tmz]

My plan is to do the tank transfer method for 12 days, then go to the QT tank for 30 days, where I'll be treating with 2 rounds of a medicine called prazi or something of that ilk.

If I'm treating the QT tank would that also kill any parasites or bacteria that may get to the sponge filter?

In theory, that would still make the sponge filter viable for storage in the sump when not in use would it not?

Not really,unless you sterilized first. Even then ,some meds stick around. Free copper for example ,can be lethal in parts per billion for some reef animals and will leach back into the display tank water .

 

[pdiehm]

so I'd be better suited to sterilize/replace the sponge after every fish goes through QT?

 

[tmz]

I wouldn't ; I'd just leave it running in the qt with a minimal risk of some carry over which is very unlikely in a vacant tank . I'd probably use a new sponge or other media seeded in the display or otherweise if fish turnover in the qt was frequent ,rinse the other one and allow it to dry. The residual meds if any won't be an issue in the qt. I wouldn't put it back in the display tank water, ever if it was exposed to copper meds.