For those who dose Kalkwasser

shaggss

Active member
Hi All

I am going to start dosing Kalkwasser (mixed two teaspoons per gallon) mainly to raise my pH which ranges from 7.7 - 7.9. I will be dosing with a profilux doser and understand that it needs to be dosed very slowly. I have a 50G and realize that every tank is different, but how much per day do you think I will need to dose on a medium stocked SPS/LPS tank?
 
Most people replace all evaporate water with slow dosed limewater, and I see no reason for you to not do that, unless you find that delivers more alkalinity than the tank needs. :)
 
I am also dosing Alk & Ca via a 2 part brand. should I stop dosing these completely and see if the kalk can met my tank demand?

Oh and TTAIA!!!!!
 
Just a quick question.. if i have my Ca and alk where it should be. and am dosing kalk in the ATO. i'd say 4g/wk for a 60g total volume.

Do i continually have to add a part 2 additive or will bi-weekly water changes, and the kalk keep my kH ~10-11?

Thanks
 
Most people replace all evaporate water with slow dosed limewater, and I see no reason for you to not do that, unless you find that delivers more alkalinity than the tank needs. :)

I have never been able to do that, oddly enough, without my pumps seizing constantly (I supplement with the baking soda when using kalk) but I have no issue with two part doing that (baked baking soda when not using kalk). I don't check it anymore but PH used to always be pretty high when I did check it and I probably evap quite a bit. Who knows.
 
Just a quick question.. if i have my Ca and alk where it should be. and am dosing kalk in the ATO. i'd say 4g/wk for a 60g total volume.

Do i continually have to add a part 2 additive or will bi-weekly water changes, and the kalk keep my kH ~10-11?

Thanks

Both the two part and the kalk add alkalinity and calcium in balanced proportions. So if you keep the same dose of kalk and stop the two part you'll be reducing the total dose of alk and calcium. If you increase the kalk dose to match the decrease in two part levels should remain teh same.
 
I have never been able to do that, oddly enough, without my pumps seizing constantly (I supplement with the baking soda when using kalk) but I have no issue with two part doing that (baked baking soda when not using kalk). I don't check it anymore but PH used to always be pretty high when I did check it and I probably evap quite a bit. Who knows.
It would help to know the ph and alk . But if you are getting precipitation of calcium carbonate ,they are likely high because the combination of kalk and baking soda in the amounts you were using raised alk too much overall or peaked ph and alk if too much was dosed at once. Dosing in a high flow area could help too.
 
Both the two part and the kalk add alkalinity and calcium in balanced proportions. So if you keep the same dose of kalk and stop the two part you'll be reducing the total dose of alk and calcium. If you increase the kalk dose to match the decrease in two part levels should remain teh same.

So do I use the calculator to figure out how much more Kall to add to makeup?
 
I have never been able to do that, oddly enough, without my pumps seizing constantly

Ever measure magnesium? Keeping it normal to high can help reduce the precipitation on pumps from high alk and pH. :)

Also, more aeration will limit the pH rise. :)
 
I have never been able to do that, oddly enough, without my pumps seizing constantly

Ever measure magnesium? Keeping it normal to high can help reduce the precipitation on pumps from high alk and pH. :)

Also, more aeration will limit the pH rise. :)

I can maintain alk 8/ ca 420 with two part (baked baking soda) without pump issues but each time I have tried to introduce kalk (using normal baking soda for the two part) the alk bottoms out to 6.5-7 or so within a day. I haven't checked magnesium in long time but when I did it seemed water changes were keeping it in range.

I should also note that back when I had sand in the tank kalk was no problem (although the sand would clump a tiny bit and pumps needed slightly more cleaning than they do now but not much). It seems that BB changed things a bit for me.

At any rate this is obviously user error :)
 
Nothing wrong with using two part. I thought you were adding the kalk in addition to it which could drive the alk and ph up leading to precipitation and a drop as the alk and calcium fall out of solution.
 
Kalkwasser

Kalkwasser

Most people replace all evaporate water with slow dosed limewater, and I see no reason for you to not do that, unless you find that delivers more alkalinity than the tank needs. :)

Hi Randy,

I'll first introduce myself, I'm a formally educated hydrologist living and working in my field in Oslo.
I, myself have an flourishing SPS aquarium but to tell the truth I look at the thriving corals as the fruits of having a good understanding of water (I have only had a reef aquarium for 18months)

I'm a fan of the best part of your writings, you usually have nice sharp chemistry and manage to put it into a logical form.

Your statement here about Kalkwasser I believe is not true, the limiting factor that controls the addition of kalkwasser is almost always the raising of the pH of the aquarium and not raising calcium and alkalinity.

On the contrary, I argue that the excess calcium and alkalinity is actually one of the most useful side effects of dosing kalkwasser.

The formation of relatively pure calcium carbonate in the locality that kalk mix is added, and the subsequent equilibrium that is established between it and for example phosphates and organics is an effect that is used the world over to purify water.

Any how, i work in the water industry and am always interested in another perspective. If I am wrong please explain why using as complicated science as you feel necessary. Calcium Hydroxide is in my opinion is the single best addition to a confined saltwater system bar none and recommending that a beginner limits its addition because of the fear of raising calcium and alkalinity too far, when calcium should already be supersaturated WRT carbonate is fundamentally wrong and will limit their future success in the hobby.

Regards



Aaroz
 
Aaroz, I'm fairly certain all Randy was saying was that it is entirely reasonable to dose the maximum amount of kalkwasser (fully saturated, full volume of makeup water) provided that the amount of calcium and alkalinity delivered do not exceed the consumption of the system. He is not commenting on pH versus supplementation as the limiting factor in kalkwasser addition, but simply to only dose the amount required to maintain stable values in your system.

I'm not sure I understand your statement "I argue that the excess calcium and alkalinity is actually one of the most useful side effects of dosing kalkwasser." Kalkwasser is a calcium and alkalinity supplement, the major point of dosing it is to add calcium and alkalinity -- the pH increase is typically regarded as the useful side effect. And I don't believe you ever want to dose "excess" calcium and alkalinity, just the amount your system consumes, otherwise you drive the already supersaturated values of calcium and alkalinity in our systems continuously higher, ultimately resulting in precipitation and unstable values.

The relative proportion of calcium to alkalinity in seawater, although interesting and important to understand, is irrelevant to the current conversation, particularly considering kalkwasser is a balanced additive and will add calcium and carbonate to the system in a defined ratio.
 
In an established, well lit stony coral reef kalkwasser is NOT SUFFICIENT TO MAINTAIN CALCIUM AND ALKALINITY. less than 2 grams of calcium hydroxide will dissolve into a liter of water @ 25degC
If one were to use kalk alone and increase evaporation in attempt to increase the amount of calcium and carbonate that will enter the system then the pH increase would likely limit its input.
In a normal super saturated, balanced system with elevated calcium and alkalinity in the locality where kalkwasser enters the system CO2 in the water immediately reacts with the hydroxide ions and the LOCAL high pH forces the now beyond super saturated calcium and carbonate ions to precipitate. It is THIS purer from of calcium carbonate that does most of the good work that kalkwasser is capable of (this relativley pure calcium carbonate adsorbs phosphates and organics), amongst its other good effects are stabilising of the pH by CO2 sequestering and adding SMALL amounts of calcium and carbonate in a perfectly balanced way that may help basic and / or poorly lit systems.
 
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Aaroz, I don't know if we are running into a language barrier, but your last post has some correct things and some incorrect things.

First, you have no way of knowing whether or not kalkwasser will be sufficient for any given stony coral system. While it is true that many systems find themselves rapidly outpacing the rate at which kalkwasser can add calcium and alkalinity to their system, (for precisely the reasons you describe), there are examples where this is not the case (see TMZ on this forum, former TOTM winner who for years kept mixed reefs and SPS systems using only kalkwasser, only recently having to supplement with 2-part). It all depends on the individual system.

Secondly, the process you are describing with kalkwasser is true when it is used as a flocculant for water treatment, but the use in reef aquaria is quite different. When you add kalkwasser quickly, the local pH rises and you get precipitation of calcium carbonate which can then adsorb impurities as you describe. However, in reef aquaria we try to add kalkwasser very slowly as to NOT cause such a local pH spike, and AVOID calcium carbonate precipitation. While this surely still happens to some degree, the dominant process is instead the addition of the calcium and hydroxide ions, which can then go through a series of potential reactions (either directly reacting with CO2 or neutralizing free acids or any number of other intermediate steps) to ultimately produce carbonate for use in coral skeletons. In short, the major effect of kalkwasser in reef aquaria is not to help with water purification via the local-precipitation mechanism you describe, but to add calcium and alkalinity.
 
In an established, well lit stony coral reef kalkwasser is NOT SUFFICIENT TO MAINTAIN CALCIUM AND ALKALINITY.

That's just not always true. There are many tanks that require additional calcium and alkalinity supplements when dosing lime water as top off ;; but many that don't need any to maintain acceptably high calcium and carbonate alkalinity levels.There are at least 2 threads with many examples of thriving sps dominant tanks that rely on kalk without other supplements.Some tanks with lower consumption get enough calcium and alkalinity from water changes alone.
Adam has noted my experience ; there are many others.


In my case the tanks are packed with growing sps and it is now necessary to add a very small amount of sodium carbonate and calcium chloride in balanced proportions to keep alkalinity at 170ppm which has been the best level for my system.
Slow dose is a key phrase in Randy's comment to avoid pH spikes and precipitation of calcium carbonate. When dosed over a period of time , CO2 from the air has time to equilibrate with the water replacing the CO2 used to form CO3 and HCO3;thus, minimizing the pH raising effect.

Impurities precipitate out in the lime water reservoir , pre dosing ; not in the tank.

Dosing for me is over 24 hours using a peristaltic pump which 150 incremental doses. one every 9 minutes or so , matching top off needs over 24 hours. I use only the clear lime water. the impurities are left in the slurry in the bottom of the reservoir. This method provides the most alk and calcium , pH stability , sg stability and the fewest impurities,imo
 
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