Found a very healthy looking blue gigantea! Help me with best placement!

[55semireef]

Sure. You have multiple anemone species in the same aquarium with a gigantea.
One of them (H. gigantea) requires a type of water flow the other two anemones will shun- massive alternating back and forth flow.
It's usually somewhat difficult to judge water flow from pictures, but I'm looking at your water returns, powerheads, livestock and HOT overflow box and I don't see where you'd be getting the water motion that's required to maintain a healthy gigantea. (The kind of flow that I'm describing would rock those clams over on their sides, for example.)

True but the lfs I bought the anemone from had the Gigantea under NO lighting, no water flow and the water quality was probably bad by the looks of it. I was doing the anemone a favor. I know I don't have thy best conditions in the world but at least it has a better chance in my tank instead of a 15 gallon with 5 clownfish trying to host it.

I just added a power head on the tank so its getting more indirect flow. Its moving around more now.

About the Equadricolor anemones now. Why do Gigantea and Equad have a bad relationship? Will their presence really hurt each other? Will I start seeing signs from the equads?


Thanks

 

[sonofgaladriel]

55semireef- I do think that you have the best intentions when 'rescuing' these nems ( I know you have rescued at least two now, maybe more), but actually, you may be contributing to their over-all demise.
The way I see it, when you buy that sickly or 'questionable' nem from the LFS, they make money on it and will most likely order another one. As we all know too well, most likely the next nem won't do well either and will most likely die. If that nem had died at the LFS, they would be less prone to spending the money up front for another specimen, which is one more left in the sea
Most of my local fish stores don't get them in very often just for the fact that most of the nems die before they are purchased.
A reputable store won't even order them just to let sit in their tanks, unless a customer special orders one.
Again, I applaud what you are doing, but think about the bigger picture.
If this blue nem of mine had not looked EXTREMELY GOOD, I would not have purchased it or attempted to 'rescue' it. I would have left it at the store. If it had died there, they would probably not risk another.
As I've said, if this new gigantea doesn't make it, I won't be trying any more newly imported specimens regardless of how good them look, just for the very reason of trying to prevent more from coming in only to die.

 

[delphinus]

What we need is for someone to get brave enough like phender to try propping them. Unfortunately I know I am not brave enough right now

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8805253#post8805253 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 55semireef
True but the lfs I bought the anemone from had the Gigantea under NO lighting, no water flow and the water quality was probably bad by the looks of it. I was doing the anemone a favor. I know I don't have thy best conditions in the world but at least it has a better chance in my tank instead of a 15 gallon with 5 clownfish trying to host it.
I just added a power head on the tank so its getting more indirect flow. Its moving around more now.
About the Equadricolor anemones now. Why do Gigantea and Equad have a bad relationship? Will their presence really hurt each other? Will I start seeing signs from the equads?
Thanks

Only those that are equipped to handle/hold gigantea properly should be doing so. "Rescuing" livestock from a LFS is not doing it a favor. Nothing personal. This is how supply and demand works. I know you meant well.
I don't know why gigantea and equad react to one another's presence (seemingly) much more so than other anemones. You might see any of your established anemones suddenly get mobile.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8805388#post8805388 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by delphinus
What we need is for someone to get brave enough like phender to try propping them. Unfortunately I know I am not brave enough right now

I can't wait to hear Phil's reaction to this.
I'll just state that not all carpet anemones are easy to maintain in captivity let alone captive propagate.

 

[delphinus]

I'm not sure I follow. Why would Phil's reaction to my comment be of interest? I applauded his bravery and was saddened by his results. The fact is he was brave to try it. I'm not brave enough to try cutting either of mine. I had to wait many years before finding the species, and the fact that both have done well in the years since, makes me nervous. Does that make them "ideal candidates" or does that mean cutting them would be "pushing my luck" ? I'm not brave enough to find out the hard way.

But others have claimed to prop haddoni with success, and his attempt at mertensii was the only one I've ever heard of .. and to my knowledge it hasn't been attempted with gigantea. So we don't know how different the reactions between the different species may be.

My sentiment here is based on what I have observed to be universal among all the hosting species of anemones -- that recently imported wild-caught specimens have much higher initial mortality rates than those who have been in captivity long term. Even a wild-caught BTA, in my opinion, stands a much higher chance of "not making it" to 8 weeks than a captive clone or a captive-prop specimen. Thus I'm extrapolating that a captive prop carpet, assuming the prop was successful, would similarly be a "better choice" for an aquarist.

Sorry to get off track. I hope I'm not stirring the pot here.

 

[sonofgaladriel]

I don't mind the segway of this thread in the least. In fact, I do think that this discussion would be great input to many in this forum. I fear that most may miss it due to the original thread's intent though.
A great discussion we should share for all to take advantage of.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8805542#post8805542 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by delphinus
I'm not sure I follow. Why would Phil's reaction to my comment be of interest? Sorry to get off track. I hope I'm not stirring the pot here.

Because I thought you were specifically referring to propagating gigantea by cutting them in half. The pot is not being stirred. I think there's a world of difference between slicing a Haddon's and slicing a gigantea in half- with Mertern's probably falling in between.

 

[delphinus]

To be honest Gary I'm still not entirely certain whether we're debating something or just agreeing without realizing it. I indeed was referring to prop'ing gigantea by cutting it in half -- but meant, someone would have to be VERY cavalier to be the first to try it. If I knew I was assured of a 100% successful outcome that's one thing, but to go ahead and blaze the trail is taking a large risk, one that I myself am not willing to take at this time.

But having said that, if it could be demonstrated that it was a safe way to increase the numbers of this species without impacting the wild populations, I think it would be a good thing. But without any data of previous trials we just don't know if it's viable or not. I thought phender's attempt with mertensii was very illuminating of that it's, in fact, NOT as straightforward and risk-free as we might perhaps have been led to believe by certain well-respected authorities. But I still believe we all learned a lot out of phender's efforts and that is still valuable, even if the output was not the as-hoped two-carpets-from-one.

Although the numbers seem to be few, there are examples of long-term success with this species. I have had one now for over two and a half years, and that doesn't even register on the radar for someone like Rod B's carpet at, what is it, 9 or 10 years. The one thing I think I've noticed, reading between the lines, is that once acclimated to captivity, they are quite hardy. The difficulty is in finding a specimen that can somehow make the transition.

 

[catastrofe]

The one thing I think I've noticed, reading between the lines, is that once acclimated to captivity, they are quite hardy. The difficulty is in finding a specimen that can somehow make the transition.

Tony, you're absolutely right. I don't believe that gigantea are any more difficult to maintain than any other anemone once they're established. As you've stated, the key is finding a healthy specimen to begin with.

 

[OrionN]

From what I read, S. gigantea is not rare in the wild, and they are often not collected because the notorious short terem mortality (dying in LFS) Several LFS ownner I know will not buy them from the wholesaler due to the fact that most of them died in their store (they could nto care less if the anemone live long enough to be bought by reefers.
S. gigantea have being sexually reproduced in farm(per Sprung). It is really too bad that they are so hard to keep. I have tryed and fail 0/3 in a tank I think would be good for S. gigantea, but not ideal species tank. After this, I have make a promise to myself not to buy one untill I have an ideal species tank for one. I think they really need a species tank with massive amout of alternating current, high light, and an healthy anemone to begin with.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8809204#post8809204 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by catastrofe
Tony, you're absolutely right. I don't believe that gigantea are any more difficult to maintain than any other anemone once they're established. As you've stated, the key is finding a healthy specimen to begin with.

Anecdotal evidence indicates otherwise.
Stichodactyla gigantea has exacting environmental requirements regarding lighting, water movement and feedings for long term success in captivity.
To suggest otherwise will only confuse the novice reefkeeper.
I've seen plenty of experienced reefkeepers fail to keep a healthy gigantea alive for very long. This is definitely a difficult species to maintain long term- otherwise, any novice reefkeeper could simply obtain a healthy specimen and have success with it.

This brings up other questions:
why is it difficult to find a healthy gigantea... or is it?

 

[delphinus]

I think the challenge is indeed finding a healthy gigantea to begin with.

I think I have to disagree about the anecdotal evidence, because I think it suggests that the problem with this species is in fact the short-term survivability following purchase. All one has to do is read this forum for example after example of specimens that do not make it past one month let alone two months; and these aren't posts from novices, these are posts from experienced reefkeepers.

I would suggest that the requirements for long-term husbandry are exacting and perhaps demanding, but hardly unknown. One simply needs to look at the natural habitat to gain some insight for water movement and flow conditions, feedings, lighting, etc.

And I hope my message is not getting misconstrued. Let's not mince words here this species has a horrible track record of surviving, it is not a species to be attempted by novices; and if anyone thinks I'm suggesting otherwise, then they are quite mistaken.

But the ones that have been in captivity for a long time, one thing you do see (at least sometimes) is the comment that "nothing extraordinary" is done to maintain them other than the usual common sense. My own experience with this species suggests this as well, truthfully I worry more about keeping clams alive than this species. I can look at my tank wrong one night and lose all my SPS, but these anemones have been with me now through thick and thin and haven't batted an eyelid. Weird? I don't know. Maybe this is anomalous but I wouldn't have guessed so. What I thought was unusual was to see the anemones make it past the 8 week mark without a hiccup. But I didn't do anything spectacularly out of the ordinary, only practical common sense. Strong lighting, alternating flow, daily or nearly daily feedings of mysis.

One thing that I did do, however, is not keep anemonefish in with them initially. Truth be told, although I love the anemones, anemonefish don't really hold my interest. (Weird eh? I dunno.) So they had the chance to acclimate to captivity in my conditions without any pestering done by anemonefish.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

Tony- are there any other anemones in the same aquarium as your gigantea?

 

[delphinus]

Two roses and one "garden variety" BTA.

I admit that I'm breaking my own rules on this one. I *really* don't recommend it as I feel it's risky. If time and resources were unlimited I would have them in separate tanks. When I moved both carpets into my 40g (this is more of a "satellite" tank sharing the sump of my 75g reef so total water volume is in the ~110g ballpark), I decided that I would sell the roses and the BTA and just stick with the carpets for now.

Problem is I've had the BTA's since like .. err .. 1997? 1998? I'm not sure... A long time anyhow, and I had this huge feeling of selfish guilt and decided to keep them in the end. I'll eventually be putting water into my 280g and won't have the carpets on that system so I plan on separating them at that time.

The brown gigantea has been in with the BTA's the whole time (purchased in April 2004), the green gigantea only since June. Previously the green was in with my magnifica (different tank system).

 

[delphinus]

Reading my own signature tells me that it can't have been 1997. Where is the blushing icon? Anyhow, I've had the BTA's since the nearly beginning and I thought I was strong willed enough to get rid of them but I wasn't. I feel like an idiot some days.

 

[catastrofe]

Anecdotal evidence once had people believing the world was flat.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8810164#post8810164 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by catastrofe
Anecdotal evidence once had people believing the world was flat.

Correction: anecdotal evidence once had many people believing the world was flat.
You would have people believe the key to maintaining gigantea is simply a matter of finding a healthy specimen?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8809959#post8809959 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by delphinus
I didn't do anything spectacularly out of the ordinary, only practical common sense. Strong lighting, alternating flow, daily or nearly daily feedings of mysis.

This is not practical common sense for a lot of people. Many (most!) people don't recognize the fact that there are different carpet anemone species occurring in different habitats and they have different husbandry requirements.

 

[catastrofe]

Correction: anecdotal evidence once had many people believing the world was flat.

You just made my point Gary. . .I'm not one of the many.

Many (most) believe that gigantea are "impossible" to keep unless you have "ideal" conditions because that's what is preached by the experts. My experience says otherwise, as does (apparently) Tony's.

The key to maintaining a gigantea is finding a healthy specimen. It's not the only key, but in my opinion it's the most important one. Other considerations certainly have merit, but they're not necessarily critical as you're advocating.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. . .

 

[55semireef]

Hey Tony, can you do me a favor by posting a video clip of your Giganteas? I want to see the type of flow your getting specifically. You don't have to, I just wanted to see.

 

[delphinus]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8810356#post8810356 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
You would have people believe the key to maintaining gigantea is simply a matter of finding a healthy specimen?[

I would! Ok, I guess I see your concerns with this statement. It's not "simply" a matter of first finding a healthy specimen, but I do think that it is a BIG part of it. So how's about this then: I would have people believe that the key to maintaining a gigantea is "first" a matter of finding a healthy specimen, but then also providing for it in terms of lighting, water movement, and feeding to ensure continued longevity. (However I have to stress again that it seems very uncommon to find those that will survive the first few weeks after introduction.)

My thought is, if an anemone melts within 2-3 days of introduction to a tank, it's likely not environmental conditions to account for that. That has to be indicative of a pre-existing condition.

Although I suppose there are factors that could exasperate the situation, such as inadequate flow, territorialism and negative biological interactions (allelopathy?), O2 saturation, ammonia/nitrite, etc.

This is not practical common sense for a lot of people. Many (most!) people don't recognize the fact that there are different carpet anemone species occurring in different habitats and they have different husbandry requirements.

True - I definitely concede this point. You're right, they're quite different beasts.