Freakin Green Chromis

[Itchy Trigger]

So I've been going through hell with fish diseases in quarantine. No need to go into the whole back story but suffice to say I'm at my wit's end. My latest batch of four fish in quarantine (filament flasher wrasse, royal gramma, orange spot goby and green chromis) have been doing great. They got a week of prazipro, then tank transfer, and I've been observing. Was set to add these fish to my DT in about two weeks, but today I notice the chromis has what look like some bumps on his head. At first I just thought they were loose scales from being tagged by the gramma or something, but now I see what looks like the beginnings of a sore on his side. I had another green chromis that died from Uronema recently, but the QT was thoroughly sterilized since he was in there. I really wish I hadn't gotten another chromis. Should I get him out of there and treat separately? Are my other fish likely to be infected now too? If I am set back again by yet another outbreak I'm going to go insane.

 

[Itchy Trigger]

I just pulled the chromis out. He's in a 2g bucket for now. The QT is 35g. The three other fish (gramma, goby & wrasse) look good, though I JUST noticed a small white fleck on one of the wrasse's pelvic fins. I'm hoping like crazy that it's nothing.

 

[Deinonych]

Post pics if you can. If you did tank transfer, you should not have crypto. I don't have any experience treating for Uronema, but I know it is an opportunistic parasite. It's possible the other fish may remain unaffected.

 

[Itchy Trigger]

I tried getting pics before but the chromis is just too fast and won't stay still. Pretty sure it's Uronema as it looks the same as what happened to the last green chromis I had. It eventually turned into a large bloody sore on his side and then he died. I removed him for now and will keep an eye on him in a separate tank.

The white fleck on the wrasse is not crypto for sure. I'll try again to get a pic of that. Assuming the wrasse doesn't have Uronema, how long would I need to observe them to be sure they're clean?

Will try and get a pic now...

 

[Itchy Trigger]

OK, this is the best shot I could get. It may really just be a nipped fin, as it does protrude with his pelvic fin. In this pic it's flat against his side because the fin was like that too.

 

[Deinonych]

If it were me, I would move the gramma, wrasse and goby to a new tank with new water if possible. From what I have read about Uronema, it is thought to be part of normal aquarium fauna that only attacks weakened fish.

I asked Kevin Kohen (from LiveAquaria) about Uronema and chromis at MACNA a couple weeks ago. He believes Uronema infections are a result of how chromis are collected and transported - i.e. poor conditions increase the likelihood for infection. He said whenever they get chromis at Diver's Den, they always give them formalin dips for good measure. So, you might give that a shot to see if you can catch it early enough. Supposedly acriflavine also works for Uronema, but I don't know if anyone on this board has tried it.

 

[Deinonych]

OK, this is the best shot I could get. It may really just be a nipped fin, as it does protrude with his pelvic fin. In this pic it's flat against his side because the fin was like that too.

That looks like a scrape or a nipped/torn fin to me. It's too big and blocky looking to be crypto.

 

[Itchy Trigger]

When I had the original case of Uronema a few months back (also came from a chromis), I gave formalin dips and ultimately lost most of the fish. It was pretty harsh. Not anxious to do that again... I could move those three fish to a 10g with new water, then sterilize the 35g again and move them back in a few days. But if the Uronema only takes advantage of weakened fish, perhaps the best bet is to just do a big water change on the 35g and leave them in there. They aren't stressed, those three. They eat well and look good.

 

[Itchy Trigger]

That looks like a scrape or a nipped/torn fin to me. It's too big and blocky looking to be crypto.

I think you're right. And assuming that's the case, all three fish look completely clean, are eating well and are very active with no signs of Uronema.

 

[Itchy Trigger]

So... If the other three fish continue to look good and don't show any signs of Uronema (or anything else), how much more observation would I need to give them before introducing to the DT? So far they've been in QT for 6 weeks, including a week of Prazipro and tank transfer. Was hoping to add them in two weeks. Is two weeks enough time to determine that they won't have Uronema?

 

[Deinonych]

Unfortunately, I don't have a good answer. Scuticociliatosis (Uronema infection) is not well-documented. Even Noga's Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment has very little information on the parasite. If it were me, I'd observe for another 30 days and keep water conditions pristine. For the chromis, perhaps try administering acriflavine to see if that works. FishVet has an acriflavine product called Acriflavine-MS that you should be able to find online. If red lesions haven't appeared yet, you may be able to successfully treat and save the chromis. Chloroquine phosphate at 80mg/gal for 21 days is another alternative treatment if you can get your hands on it (usually requires a prescription from a veterinarian).

Again, none of this is based on personal experience, just what I have read in fish disease books and online resources. So, please take this advice with a grain of salt.

 

[Itchy Trigger]

Thank you. It's definitely difficult to get info on how to deal with this parasite... OK, I'll just observe and keep the water clean. Going out of town from October 11-18. Was planning to add the fish before I went away, but now will wait till I'm back. If anyone else has any suggestions/input please feel free to post it.

 

[Itchy Trigger]

The Nightmare Continues

The Nightmare Continues

So just now I took a look at the QT. Gramma and goby still look fine, but the wrasse now has a similar "bumpy" look on his head. As if some of the scales were slightly raised. Also one of his pectoral fins appears a little bit cloudy and he has some slight white film on that same side. He's still eating, but is now hiding most of the time in a piece of PVC. Can't get a pic of him unfortunately. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Is it Uronema? Is it bacterial? Should I remove the gramma and goby?

I am just about at the point of giving up completely. I've been quarantining fish since early MARCH and still have not been able to get anything through the QT process without something cropping up. I kept FW fish for 20 years and never had these problems. I had many fish live 10-12 years or more. I really want this to work but really at the end of my rope now.

 

[Itchy Trigger]

I'm going to pull the goby and gramma out of the 35g and put them in a 10g with all new water. No clue what to do with the wrasse. Will try to get a pic of him, but may need to net him first so i can get a good one, which unfortunately will stress him out.

 

[Itchy Trigger]

OK, just snapped some pics of the wrasse. Impossible to get anything where you can see in clear focus and with good lighting, but this will give some idea anyway. There is a slight white film or haze on his left side and the pec fin on that side is a bit cloudy. Also, he has some small bumps or elevated scales on his "forehead" which I could not really capture but you can sort of see in one of the pics.

What could this be? Chromis had the same thing. Gramma and goby look perfect now, but I fear they too will get whatever this is and I'll have to start over once again... Please help...

 

[Itchy Trigger]

I should also note that it looks like his left side is slightly swollen and he is holding the cloudy left pec up and not using it as he normally would. Just filled a 10g with new water and about to net out the gramma and goby and move them over.

 

[HumbleFish]

I can't tell for sure from the pics, but "white haze" makes me think brook or uronema. I know you are hesitant to do formalin dips again, but maybe if you described in detail how you did it we could help you figure out what went wrong. I used to hate formalin, but lately I've been gaining confidence doing the baths (on other people's fish ). I don't think I've lost a fish during (or shortly after) a formalin bath in a couple of years now.

Btw, have you seen this sticky? http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388437

 

[Itchy Trigger]

Hi... Yes, I did read that sticky and yes, very hesitant to do the formalin dips again. I've separated the gramma and goby. They look fine now, but I guess it's only a matter of time before they show the symptoms too. Oh, I am so sick of this...

So if I were to do the formalin baths again with this group of fish (I assume I should give the baths to all three of them even though the gramma and goby appear fine and are separated right?), I do have formaldehyde at 37% now. Should I use that?

 

[Itchy Trigger]

I followed instructions for the formalin dips very closely last time around and ultimately ended up losing all fish that were being treated. Maybe someone could outline the exact treatment I should begin right now... I have 37% formaldehyde in the closet which I can use. One issue: we're leaving town on Saturday the 11th, so whatever treatment I do will have to be finished (or suspended for a week) at that point.

My frustration at this point is off the charts. If anyone's followed my threads over the past 6 months, you can imagine why.

 

[HumbleFish]

So if I were to do the formalin baths again with this group of fish (I assume I should give the baths to all three of them even though the gramma and goby appear fine and are separated right?), I do have formaldehyde at 37% now. Should I use that?

Yes; maybe start out by doing half the recommended dosage (so, just 10 drops per gal) this time. Only do one fish at a time. Aerate heavily before and during the bath. Keep temp stable. 45 mins max, but if the fish looks to be in distress pull him ASAP. Even if it's just 10 mins in.

Is his stickies, snorvich talks about acriflavine and metronidazole as alternative treatments (see links below). I've never used acriflavine, but I have used API General Cure (with contains metro) for fish with intestinal parasites and it works great!

http://www.fishvet.com/Acriflavine-MS.htm

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=16807