Garf
- Thread starter vickiNaz
- Start date
skimmerman100
In Memoriam
agreed
saltwatercityma
New member
The Grunge movement died w/ Kobain
GARFVolunteer
Premium Member
I am about the only GARF person that is ever here but I am not an employee. I have set up many tanks using the GARF method and they have all worked out great. Some think that plenums are out dated but IMO they are the best long term sand bed out there if they are properly constructed. It is not unheard of to have plenum systems that are still thriving after 10 years.
When it comes to coral propagation and man made rock I feel GARF did lead the way up until around 2002/2003. That is when Sally Jo became very ill. After an operation last year, she is doing much better and is more involved at GARF again. That is good since she is the major driving force behind GARF.
Thanks,
Scott
When it comes to coral propagation and man made rock I feel GARF did lead the way up until around 2002/2003. That is when Sally Jo became very ill. After an operation last year, she is doing much better and is more involved at GARF again. That is good since she is the major driving force behind GARF.
Thanks,
Scott
saltwatercityma
New member
GARF led the way the same way Rev Moon led the evangilist movement .
GARFVolunteer
Premium Member
Since DSB have only been popular for about 12 years or so that is pretty remarkable...
stugray
Premium Member
I started in this hobby with GARF as my only "mentor".
Both Sally JO & Leroy were very helpful on the phone even when I wasnt making an order.
I will ALWAYS use their arches & caves in any tank I ever setup from now on.
Can anyone spot the GARF rocks as opposed to the "real" Live Rock?:
I bet Eddie Postma can see them....
I have NEVER seen another tank with rocks like this.
My chromis can go from one side of the tank to the other & never expose himself. It is GARF tunnels from one end to the other.
There is only ~10% REAL LR in there. All the rest is Garf aragocrete.
In addition, I swear by the GARF grunge to startup a tank.
I didnt even know what brittlestars were until I tried the Grunge plus.
Also - I used the plenum design on my sump sandbed, and I flush it every other time I do a water change. ( see my gallery for pics ).
I have a very healthy reef so far.
No arguments against Garf from me.
They have always been very helpful & giving.
I give them a major thumbs up in helping new reefers.
Do they know everything? - NO.
I swear by their beliefs in cleanup crews as well.
Red or blue legged hermits only, as an example.
I have tried other hermits, and only then do I see the problems that other reefers complain about: they eat the snails or are aggressive, etc.
GARF does NOT steer anyone wrong.
It is best to learn from them and move on once you are more advanced.
Just My Opinion
Stu
Both Sally JO & Leroy were very helpful on the phone even when I wasnt making an order.
I will ALWAYS use their arches & caves in any tank I ever setup from now on.
Can anyone spot the GARF rocks as opposed to the "real" Live Rock?:
I bet Eddie Postma can see them....
I have NEVER seen another tank with rocks like this.
My chromis can go from one side of the tank to the other & never expose himself. It is GARF tunnels from one end to the other.
There is only ~10% REAL LR in there. All the rest is Garf aragocrete.
In addition, I swear by the GARF grunge to startup a tank.
I didnt even know what brittlestars were until I tried the Grunge plus.
Also - I used the plenum design on my sump sandbed, and I flush it every other time I do a water change. ( see my gallery for pics ).
I have a very healthy reef so far.
No arguments against Garf from me.
They have always been very helpful & giving.
I give them a major thumbs up in helping new reefers.
Do they know everything? - NO.
I swear by their beliefs in cleanup crews as well.
Red or blue legged hermits only, as an example.
I have tried other hermits, and only then do I see the problems that other reefers complain about: they eat the snails or are aggressive, etc.
GARF does NOT steer anyone wrong.
It is best to learn from them and move on once you are more advanced.
Just My Opinion
Stu
A. Grandis
Active member
Hello my friends.
I would like to know really what is this thread about.
It is hard to understand.
What´s the point here?
Is GARF a bad org? Why?
Please put your statements clearly, so I can understand.
Sorry for my ignorance.
Grandis.
I would like to know really what is this thread about.
It is hard to understand.
What´s the point here?
Is GARF a bad org? Why?
Please put your statements clearly, so I can understand.
Sorry for my ignorance.
Grandis.
ctenophors rule
New member
i am confused?
why are we having a discussion about dsb's and plenom methods with anecdotal evidence?
can i hear the way that you, GARFvolunteer, properly set up a plenum.
and jenglish, how do the dsb's get around "the new nitrate theory"?
and i would like to say, that personaly, i dislike both of them.
i run a ssb, less than 2 inches, though i would prefer 3.5 (waiting for sufficient funds so i can by live sand from the keys, freshly scooped) i also use a bit of live rock, though i am also waiting to get more, but fresh from a supplier, maybe a group buy with a local forum.
anyway, i use a protien skimmer, and a rena 55. now my system has only been set up for 2+ years, but in tht time i have only been doing an average of 5 gallons water changes per year, and all my nutrients are undetectable.
i have three pepermint shrimp, 2 mated true perc's and a yellow watchmen goby, recently widowed from its sybiont alpheus randali.
i feed, a bit more than i should, but my sand bed remains detritusless.
i know of many others who run a system like mine, wih out plenum or dsb's, and these are long standing tanks, not to mention, excess nitrogenous nutrient free!
let the battle begin. lol
why are we having a discussion about dsb's and plenom methods with anecdotal evidence?
can i hear the way that you, GARFvolunteer, properly set up a plenum.
and jenglish, how do the dsb's get around "the new nitrate theory"?
and i would like to say, that personaly, i dislike both of them.
i run a ssb, less than 2 inches, though i would prefer 3.5 (waiting for sufficient funds so i can by live sand from the keys, freshly scooped) i also use a bit of live rock, though i am also waiting to get more, but fresh from a supplier, maybe a group buy with a local forum.
anyway, i use a protien skimmer, and a rena 55. now my system has only been set up for 2+ years, but in tht time i have only been doing an average of 5 gallons water changes per year, and all my nutrients are undetectable.
i have three pepermint shrimp, 2 mated true perc's and a yellow watchmen goby, recently widowed from its sybiont alpheus randali.
i feed, a bit more than i should, but my sand bed remains detritusless.
i know of many others who run a system like mine, wih out plenum or dsb's, and these are long standing tanks, not to mention, excess nitrogenous nutrient free!
let the battle begin. lol
jenglish
Marquis de Carabas
Well, I was merely matching anecdote for anecdote, anecdotal evidence is far from proof. It is though quite hard to show longevity of any particular marine technique in a randomized control trial in that I cannot set up 20 tanks and let them run for 10 years
As far as the New Nitrate theory, I answered that in the thread of that name and it is neither new nor particularly convincing argument.
As far as the New Nitrate theory, I answered that in the thread of that name and it is neither new nor particularly convincing argument.
ctenophors rule
New member
but jenglish, doesn't the new nitrate theory suggest that their are anaerobic zones in deep sand beds (true) and that they have been shown to culture a bacteria that is capable of creating a detrimental compound.....can't remember, is it nitrate?
what do you see that i dont? (i can never get the whole picture)
what do you see that i dont? (i can never get the whole picture)
jenglish
Marquis de Carabas
Anoxic areas can develop in a DSB that is too deep and does not have a benthic organisms. The Bob Goemans article that started that thread was several years old and it was more theoretical than having any supporting evidence. If you are worried about something in a DSB, H2S or saturation of PO4 are probably more concern than a possibility of ammonium. This link explains DSB fairly well for being a basic diagram.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1652103
ctenophors rule
New member
i rwad through the article again, and the thread, up to page 6,where it started dieing down.
and i think i understand where you are coming from as well.
i still need to think about this, but weather dsb's are good or bad, i still dn't see a need for them, as they dont do much good, other than possible aesthetics, or species needs.
however i think that detritus buildup is probably a more probable cause of tank crashes, than the nitrate build up through ammonification.
still, their is absolutely no real benefit from having a dsb. right?
and i think i understand where you are coming from as well.
i still need to think about this, but weather dsb's are good or bad, i still dn't see a need for them, as they dont do much good, other than possible aesthetics, or species needs.
however i think that detritus buildup is probably a more probable cause of tank crashes, than the nitrate build up through ammonification.
still, their is absolutely no real benefit from having a dsb. right?
jenglish
Marquis de Carabas
The function of DSB, plenum or not is to create a low oxygen area for denitrification to occur. There is some limited research suggesting it happens in SSB, but most in the hobby believe denitrification does not occur is a SSB as it has too much O2.
I don't want to get this thread too derailed. If you have more DSB questions, the DSB thread in the Newb forum has discussion on these topics, and much of it is not so entry level.
On the topic I started my first marine aquarium about 2000 and this thread was the first I ever even heard of GARF, so I cannot really speak much about their leadership.
I don't want to get this thread too derailed. If you have more DSB questions, the DSB thread in the Newb forum has discussion on these topics, and much of it is not so entry level.
On the topic I started my first marine aquarium about 2000 and this thread was the first I ever even heard of GARF, so I cannot really speak much about their leadership.
ctenophors rule
New member
gotcha, thanks.
Probably for good reason Scott (only garf person here). You are not the only one with past experience with them though and the majority with it have a different reaction to them then you.
I've known Leroy for a bit over a decade, was a supplier of theirs for years and got suckered into the grunge once as well. What I know could fill a book and trust me, it wouldn't be a boring read about garf if I really jumped feet first into this thread :lol:
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